New Lemons build
11-07-11, 09:39 AM
#1
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New Lemons build
Hopefully this post will go through....i should have 3 now 
Anyway, this is my 3rd Lemons build, all Hondas so far. We finally found an 87 RX that my mechanic and driver traded for a nice exhaust. He says the motor has 30k on it and looks good.
Anyway, i'm sure i'll be spending a ton of time on here but have a few questions.
Cage - Autopower?? Any others i should contact for a prebuilt cage? We built our other ones and it took forever, don't have that kind of time now.
Suspension - got any good sources for cheap CO's or strut/spring combos?
Brakes - i'll use Carbotech endurance pads and probably rebuild the stock calipers. Any advice here?
What are the weak spots in the drive train? I'm thinking clutch, cooling and Diff?
Thanks all, hope to be a contributing member one day....at least for some good stories of **** catching fire.
Anyway, this is my 3rd Lemons build, all Hondas so far. We finally found an 87 RX that my mechanic and driver traded for a nice exhaust. He says the motor has 30k on it and looks good.
Anyway, i'm sure i'll be spending a ton of time on here but have a few questions.
Cage - Autopower?? Any others i should contact for a prebuilt cage? We built our other ones and it took forever, don't have that kind of time now.
Suspension - got any good sources for cheap CO's or strut/spring combos?
Brakes - i'll use Carbotech endurance pads and probably rebuild the stock calipers. Any advice here?
What are the weak spots in the drive train? I'm thinking clutch, cooling and Diff?
Thanks all, hope to be a contributing member one day....at least for some good stories of **** catching fire.
11-07-11, 10:31 AM
#2
Our team has raced 13 or so races all in RX7's.
We have a caged lemon shell I want to sell - but you are probably toooo far to make this work.
Anyhoo, autopower is very expensive and probably not going to pass without modifying it.
S&W Race Cars makes the cages we used in our RX7's and install without much fuss BUT I would further modify them if I had to do them again. The main hoop needs to be straightened a little from the bends they use. Other than that, its a pretty good deal for lemons.
Weve used stock suspension for the most part - since we are downgrading to one FC instead of two, we are taking the KYB's from the car we are abandoning work on.
Brakes - we use Hawk HP pads and they work great. They are not expensive and last a few races - UNLESS its Eagles Canyon north of Dallas.
That place destroys brakes in a single day.
We have run in every configuration imaginable on an FC. Stock four lug base to bridgeported with NA drivetrain to bridgeport with turbo drivetrain to full turbo drivetrain that we run now.
We are going to use our mothballed bridgeport engine in our new RX2 build.
Weakness in the FC is the cooling. We have solved that. Seriously. We can run 180 degree temps allll day long even in the Texas summer. Solution: extra heat exchanger on the roof. One of our cars even had a second FB radiator in the back.
Stock clutch is a fail alllll the way around. We grenaded lots of them. Buy an ACT clutch. Cheat on this and they will never know. Dont go cheap and use an ACT pressure plate with cheap no name disc. That is fail too.
If you are running NA, I have a less than 100 lap ACT Xtreme pressure plate for sale. I guarantee you will not experience any slippage.
Another weakness- oil cooler lines. Inspect them carefully if they are originals. Once you start beating on the car, they leak profusely or explode.
The differential is fine in the car but if you can find a LSD for your car - you will be glad you made the swap. The front diff mounts are weak - we weld a piece of chain from the subframe and over the pinion to strengthen the assembly. Do this or something similar.
I love talking Lemons. You can check our lengthy thread in the South Forum or just call me sometime. I love this stuff!
We have a caged lemon shell I want to sell - but you are probably toooo far to make this work.
Anyhoo, autopower is very expensive and probably not going to pass without modifying it.
S&W Race Cars makes the cages we used in our RX7's and install without much fuss BUT I would further modify them if I had to do them again. The main hoop needs to be straightened a little from the bends they use. Other than that, its a pretty good deal for lemons.
Weve used stock suspension for the most part - since we are downgrading to one FC instead of two, we are taking the KYB's from the car we are abandoning work on.
Brakes - we use Hawk HP pads and they work great. They are not expensive and last a few races - UNLESS its Eagles Canyon north of Dallas.
That place destroys brakes in a single day.We have run in every configuration imaginable on an FC. Stock four lug base to bridgeported with NA drivetrain to bridgeport with turbo drivetrain to full turbo drivetrain that we run now.
We are going to use our mothballed bridgeport engine in our new RX2 build.
Weakness in the FC is the cooling. We have solved that. Seriously. We can run 180 degree temps allll day long even in the Texas summer. Solution: extra heat exchanger on the roof. One of our cars even had a second FB radiator in the back.
Stock clutch is a fail alllll the way around. We grenaded lots of them. Buy an ACT clutch. Cheat on this and they will never know. Dont go cheap and use an ACT pressure plate with cheap no name disc. That is fail too.
If you are running NA, I have a less than 100 lap ACT Xtreme pressure plate for sale. I guarantee you will not experience any slippage.
Another weakness- oil cooler lines. Inspect them carefully if they are originals. Once you start beating on the car, they leak profusely or explode.
The differential is fine in the car but if you can find a LSD for your car - you will be glad you made the swap. The front diff mounts are weak - we weld a piece of chain from the subframe and over the pinion to strengthen the assembly. Do this or something similar.
I love talking Lemons. You can check our lengthy thread in the South Forum or just call me sometime. I love this stuff!
11-07-11, 01:34 PM
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Wow, thanks for all the intel. I emailed S&W, they look pretty legit. Waiting to hear back.
I might be interested in that shell. I'm driving to Houston for christmas and might want it, depends on what you want for it.
I'll prolly take the clutch too. Drop me a PM with your info and i'll email you offline.
I've been running Lemons since the beginning and love the series. Mazda's are completely new to me though, i'm a Datsun and BMW guy by experience.
I might be interested in that shell. I'm driving to Houston for christmas and might want it, depends on what you want for it.
I'll prolly take the clutch too. Drop me a PM with your info and i'll email you offline.
I've been running Lemons since the beginning and love the series. Mazda's are completely new to me though, i'm a Datsun and BMW guy by experience.
11-07-11, 02:08 PM
#4
Like I said - the S&W cage could be a lot better.
Here is the car which we are removing the turbo drivetrain from.
We're keeping the wheels and the garbage disposal powered margarita machine / cool suit reservoir.
But hey - we could probably leave the extra radiator in the hatch with the box (radiator) fan.
Here is the car which we are removing the turbo drivetrain from.
We're keeping the wheels and the garbage disposal powered margarita machine / cool suit reservoir.
But hey - we could probably leave the extra radiator in the hatch with the box (radiator) fan.
11-07-11, 02:36 PM
#5
^^^ This is how the S&W cage fits. Not great (kinda crappy) - but cheap and passes tech.
See how the main hoop swoops into the floor board? Sucks.
The first door bar fits but fitting a second bar leaves few options. One of our cars we doubled the bar - worked but made it harder to enter / exit the car.
In the pic above, tried an "x" but because of the main hoop shape, the leg of the "x' by your hip intrudes more than I'd like.
If you get the S&W cage, I'd recommend bending the legs straighter (which would also give you some needed headroom).
If you get my shell, deal with it. It aint that bad.
Not sure what will end up being included with the shell - I mean hey, it even has neons in case its raced at night.
I'm not sure of the price yet. It depends how stripped down it ends up. If it doesn't sell, I'll mothball it in case our other car gets wrecked up. I'd love to see it on the track again though.
11-07-11, 04:20 PM
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What kind of wheels are those? Where can i get a set?
If we mount a huge honking cooler in the front will we be ok? routing all that pipe rearward, while cool, seems like a lot of work. I love the setup btw.
Well let me know how much you want for it. If it's worth it maybe i'll bring the trailer and get it.
If we mount a huge honking cooler in the front will we be ok? routing all that pipe rearward, while cool, seems like a lot of work. I love the setup btw.
Well let me know how much you want for it. If it's worth it maybe i'll bring the trailer and get it.
11-07-11, 06:48 PM
#7
Those wheels are just some 17's we acquired on the cheap (free). Nothing special. Pretty heavy in fact and not really the best choice - free was good tho. Our other sets are stock T2 wheels and a set of vert wheels.
Thats another thing you should remember - get good tires!!! Falken Azenis 615K are the way to go. Not too expensive and right at the limit of what Lemons allows.
The piping for the cooler is just heater hose. We run it outside the car and no one seems to care.
Here is the cooler on our car we are keeping (on roof)
:
Its just a heater core from a big truck. Found it free too. Hey, its what works for us and keeps the car cool. So - we go with it. I guess you could put it in front if you want.... but the roof works GREAT!
As far as the cost of the shell - I really need to figure out what I need off it first.
Thats another thing you should remember - get good tires!!! Falken Azenis 615K are the way to go. Not too expensive and right at the limit of what Lemons allows.
The piping for the cooler is just heater hose. We run it outside the car and no one seems to care.
Here is the cooler on our car we are keeping (on roof)
:Its just a heater core from a big truck. Found it free too. Hey, its what works for us and keeps the car cool. So - we go with it. I guess you could put it in front if you want.... but the roof works GREAT!
As far as the cost of the shell - I really need to figure out what I need off it first.
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11-07-11, 06:59 PM
#8
I think I'm going to want $850 for the shell with cage as a roller.
The cage alone was about $500 or so shipped plus consumables, multiple skin burns, and cussing.
Keep in mind we plan on stripping it pretty bare but if it sounds like something you want to talk about - we can talk.
We want to use the funds to cage and prep our RX2!!!!
We want to win Index of Effluency AGAIN!!!!!
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/201...l-winner-is-8/
The cage alone was about $500 or so shipped plus consumables, multiple skin burns, and cussing.
Keep in mind we plan on stripping it pretty bare but if it sounds like something you want to talk about - we can talk.
We want to use the funds to cage and prep our RX2!!!!
We want to win Index of Effluency AGAIN!!!!!
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/201...l-winner-is-8/
11-17-11, 04:08 PM
#9
We are running a 90 S5 NA on the west coast. It kind of sounds like the autopower/bolt-in cages are going to get difficult to pass tech with in coming years so I'd stay away from that. These guys seem to get rave reviews for their cages http://www.rollcagecomponents.com/kits7.htm
All the races we've run so far have been the "cold" races (****-freeze 2x, Reno 24hr w/snow, etc) so we haven't had any cooling issues at all with a stock boiled out radiator. The warmest we've run in was the 80's at the Fontana Chump race and it ran 180-190. I did notice that if you run it for a long time at 8k plus it will heat up until you back it down a little. I'm guessing pump cavitation.
Our biggest problem is transmissions. We lose 3rd gear synchro by the end of each race weekend. I've just been replacing the whole trans each time (S5 NA trans' are pretty easy to find cheap) but the pile of transmissions in the side yard is getting pretty big. We're gonna need to somehow find the budget to switch to TII drivetrain at some point.
For the last chump race I put in a GTU rear end for the 4.30 gears. It overheated and cooked the side seals. I made up some PVC pipe cooling ducts and switched to Red Line oil and we'll see how that goes. If that is a problem again, then I guess we'll have to switch to TII driveline or back to the 4.10 rear end.
For handling, I just cut the stock springs and keep them as a wind chime that will probably end up as a bribe once they've seen them a few times and know we don't have cheaty springs. The stock front shock towers were slotted. The car came with a large front RB swaybar and stock rear. It pushes so we went to a larger rear for the next race. We got a low enough residual that the used bar will fit in with no issues but they would have to look awful hard to find it otherwise. I'm generally happy with the way it handles. At Fontana we ran RT615ks on one day and regular street tires on the 2nd day. Car was about 4-5 seconds a lap slower (laps were about a minute and a half long)
All the races we've run so far have been the "cold" races (****-freeze 2x, Reno 24hr w/snow, etc) so we haven't had any cooling issues at all with a stock boiled out radiator. The warmest we've run in was the 80's at the Fontana Chump race and it ran 180-190. I did notice that if you run it for a long time at 8k plus it will heat up until you back it down a little. I'm guessing pump cavitation.
Our biggest problem is transmissions. We lose 3rd gear synchro by the end of each race weekend. I've just been replacing the whole trans each time (S5 NA trans' are pretty easy to find cheap) but the pile of transmissions in the side yard is getting pretty big. We're gonna need to somehow find the budget to switch to TII drivetrain at some point.
For the last chump race I put in a GTU rear end for the 4.30 gears. It overheated and cooked the side seals. I made up some PVC pipe cooling ducts and switched to Red Line oil and we'll see how that goes. If that is a problem again, then I guess we'll have to switch to TII driveline or back to the 4.10 rear end.
For handling, I just cut the stock springs and keep them as a wind chime that will probably end up as a bribe once they've seen them a few times and know we don't have cheaty springs. The stock front shock towers were slotted. The car came with a large front RB swaybar and stock rear. It pushes so we went to a larger rear for the next race. We got a low enough residual that the used bar will fit in with no issues but they would have to look awful hard to find it otherwise. I'm generally happy with the way it handles. At Fontana we ran RT615ks on one day and regular street tires on the 2nd day. Car was about 4-5 seconds a lap slower (laps were about a minute and a half long)
