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Old 01-26-03, 02:11 PM
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Thumbs up Need Your help

I have a race car Ralt RT-4 that I am racing in SCCA formula A. It has a Ford Cosworth engine, that I am thinking about changing to a 12A Mazda. Here is my question as I know nothing about the Mazda engine except that they are very fast, and hold up well to high RPMs. I contacted a motor builder in Calf. that wanted $18,000 for his motor with Weber 48 but no exhust. another on In Fl wanted even more for his. There is a local engine builder in town that builds most of the street racers cars. He quoted me a price of only $4000.00 encluding Webers lightened roters and counter balancers, 1 piece apex seals. Now the big question: Is the extra $14,000 worth it. What would cost $14,000??? Please give me your advice
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Old 01-26-03, 02:39 PM
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wow

$18,000, I have never heard of a motor go for that high. Regardless that application for your engine would warrant a premium over a standard rebuild. I have no personal experience on High dollar motors, but from a base engine you can add on:
Hardended stations gears (for high RPM applications) with three window bearings (added oil flow)

Water jacket modification to allow for greater cooling capacity

Lightened rotors (the lighter the more expensive)

I'm not sure what porting Formula A will allow but this can get radical and costly.

Apex seals can certainly increase the price depending what kind are used. the ceramic variety can be coslty.

Those are the major cost contributors.

I would definately do more research before paying 18 grand for a motor, and I certainly would not settle for a $4000, because it seems like a better deal.

Sorry I could not be of more assistance. The best way to get information is to ask the engine builders what you are getting for your cash.

Pauly D
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Old 01-26-03, 06:56 PM
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From Everything I have heard is that the national winning GT and Sports racers use a builder by the name of "Drummond". I do not have contact info but someone at the track would know. Ask a GT racer, since you are in a different class they will tell you. I have heard the range of 6K to 10K depending on what you have him do.

-billy
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Old 01-26-03, 07:05 PM
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Dan Drummond,

He builds all the Formula Mazda motors somewhere on the left coast.

PMD
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Old 01-26-03, 09:42 PM
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He's the one that wanted $18,000 but he is good. But the question still is what more does he do for $14,000.
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Old 01-27-03, 01:35 AM
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the price quoted to you must include the parts necessary to convert to a rotary engine. Tony from AWR came up with the conversion and Drummond is his engine builder of choice. the packaging as you probably know is very tight on a formula atlantic so dry sump units, custom oil pans, etc, and intakes as well as custom exhaust systems are all necessary and not cheep. check with Tony at AWR for the conversion parts and have your local engine builder try and build an engine that fits.

Last edited by tims; 01-27-03 at 01:37 AM.
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Old 01-27-03, 08:46 AM
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Ah ha!

Tims shed some light on the subject. Dry sump setup is what really shoots the price up. Look at this break down of estimated prices:

new rotor housings $452ea ($904)
ceramic apex seal kit $1500
hardened stationary gears w/ 3 window bearings $500
core components $1000 (e-shaft and nonrotor housings)
light weight rotors $1000 ea
dry sump frotcover $3000
accompanying components to dry sump $1000

That is already $11,000 not includng any kind of induction (carb, manifold etc.)

Is it making sense now? (It finally does to me)

PMD
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Old 01-27-03, 12:51 PM
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the cost of open wheel race motors is staggering at times. a new cosworth would be similair in cost. good thing with the 12a is it will last alot longer than the cosworth if it is not abused.
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