Race Car Tech Discuss anything related to road racing and auto X.

low cost coilovers

Old 07-14-07, 05:07 PM
  #1  
engineer wanabe
5 Year Member
Thread Starter
 
ikari899's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: tucson
Posts: 409
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
low cost coilovers

ok well i have not roadraced before but i am looking to get into it with an FC. i have quite a bit of experience with autox though.

any way looking for a coilover set up in the 1000-1500 dollar range and im wondering what you guys have heard or experience with coilovers such as Kport, Stance, and the Tein HE/SS/Flex coilovers? or any other ones i dont know about.

or is this just a waste of my time and i should go with the GC/koni setup?

thanks-
carlos
ikari899 is offline  
Old 07-15-07, 10:37 AM
  #2  
Senior Member
5 Year Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: wisconsin
Posts: 519
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
i have the gc/koni setup on my ITS car, honostly, they dont have as much as all the high end stuff and i have to push much harder than the other guys, but they are still competative, and for the price you cant go wrong. However, for the street, there is no way i would run them, one city bump and your going to the chiropractor. Very, very stiff.
bean13 is offline  
Old 07-15-07, 01:57 PM
  #3  
engineer wanabe
5 Year Member
Thread Starter
 
ikari899's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: tucson
Posts: 409
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
im not worried about city driving at all its going to be a full race car.

did you have to go with custom valving for the konis and what springrates do you run?
ikari899 is offline  
Old 07-15-07, 04:24 PM
  #4  
Old Rotary Dog
10 Year Member
 
wrankin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Durham, NC
Posts: 1,461
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
As with everything, it depends. The really sophisticated guys are running different spring rates for different tracks, along with multi-way adjustable dampers, etc. For the more budget limited (as well as skill limited in my case) it seems that a fairly common "basic" setup is running the GC kit with 400/275 f/r spring rates, the RB front sway bar, no bar in the rear and the Konis.

The Koni's work with the stock valving. The KYB AGX shocks/struts (which is what I run) are a cheaper alternative to the Koni's but won't handle too much more in terms of higher spring rates.

Suspension tuning is such a black art (and so driver dependent) that really the best way to approach it is to set some sort of baseline config (like the GC/koni/RB setup) and then get out on the track and see what work for you. Make some small changes and see how it impacts your times. Lather, rinse, repeat.

Do you have a specific class/group that you are looking at running with? SCCA ITS is the obvious candidate, or one of the NASA groups.

Good luck,

-bill

Last edited by wrankin; 07-15-07 at 04:33 PM.
wrankin is offline  
Old 07-15-07, 09:35 PM
  #5  
OC_
I'm bastardizing my car!
5 Year Member
 
OC_'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Naperville, IL.
Posts: 1,258
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
if you price out the GC/koni with all the other little bits that go along with it, you'll find you come only a $100 or so away from a low end coil over kit; and the coil over kit is going to come with matched shocks and springs and probably be a whole lot better then putting something together yourself.
BTW, i dont think tein makes the HE anymore, its replaced by the SS damper.
OC_ is offline  
Old 07-15-07, 09:57 PM
  #6  
#FakeCarEnthusaist
iTrader: (10)
 
Brody8877's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 1,790
Received 6 Likes on 6 Posts
I would recommend stance coilover system over GC with koni or kyb or tokico shocks setup.
Brody8877 is offline  
Old 07-15-07, 11:45 PM
  #7  
engineer wanabe
5 Year Member
Thread Starter
 
ikari899's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: tucson
Posts: 409
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
ok yeah i dont know what tein makes and doesnt make any more. i have only heard good things about stance but they have only come from drag racers and thats a far cry from road racing. maybe ill just go with those any way.

im not sure what class i want to run, what ever the car qualifies for i guess. i just wana go fast . suggestions?

good to hear about the AGXs though because a car im looking at right now has those already.
ikari899 is offline  
Old 07-16-07, 08:09 AM
  #8  
Old Rotary Dog
10 Year Member
 
wrankin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Durham, NC
Posts: 1,461
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Originally Posted by ikari899 View Post
ok yeah i dont know what tein makes and doesnt make any more. i have only heard good things about stance but they have only come from drag racers and thats a far cry from road racing. maybe ill just go with those any way.
Do a search of this forum and http://www.improvedtouring.com/ . This has been discussed quite often. One of the concerns with some of the lower end kits is that the dampers just don't last the duration of a race - their response changes as they heat up and they just can't take the abuse.

I am not familiar enough with the Stance products to comment on them. Some folks have commented that some of the Tein kits aren't up to the task of hard racing.

im not sure what class i want to run, what ever the car qualifies for i guess. i just wana go fast . suggestions?
That's simple.

First spend your money on making sure the car is absolutely reliable and safe. Then spend your money on the driver. More seat time will get you faster, quicker than a lot of go-fast bolt on parts. As you get better, you can start realizing the limits of the car (this will take a while) and make incremental changes as you move forward.

good to hear about the AGXs though because a car im looking at right now has those already.
True. Use what you got.

-bill
wrankin is offline  
Old 07-16-07, 10:10 AM
  #9  
Armchair engineer
iTrader: (2)
 
j9fd3s's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: http://www.k2rd.com
Posts: 24,603
Likes: 0
Received 123 Likes on 112 Posts
we ran an fc for years in nasa ps1, now ptd(ish)

the original setup was 300/225ish springs on agx shocks

and later we stepped up to the 450/300ish and koni setup that everyone else runs.

we thought then, and still think now, that the "jdm" coilover sets, like the tein, and the jic's are no good for an actual race car, as they cant be fixed, or rebuilt, and if you're seriously racing you'll need to do both

in addition theres no documentation on the japanese stuff, shock dyno? koni has em, and will revalve stuff for ya.
j9fd3s is offline  
Old 07-16-07, 11:14 AM
  #10  
engineer wanabe
5 Year Member
Thread Starter
 
ikari899's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: tucson
Posts: 409
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
sounds like the koni/GC setup is what im going to be going with then... after i blow the AGXs that is. now i just need to find a place to get the GCs nice and cheap.

oh yeah the only heavy modification i plan to do on the car is a Vmount, which i am perfectly capable of building myself.

i do have a E8, t67, and meth injection sitting around from my last car but i think i need to learn to drive a low powered car before i step up to 400+ hp.

so im just going to get the GC/konis, all the little adjustible suspention tid bits the FC needs, and some enkei rpf1s with nice tires. i will leave the horsepower for later, although it is going to be hard resisting that turbo...

looks like i wont be getting real coil overs until i have the skills and money for em .
ikari899 is offline  
Old 07-16-07, 12:20 PM
  #11  
engineer wanabe
5 Year Member
Thread Starter
 
ikari899's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: tucson
Posts: 409
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
wait i just went though the ITS rules... sooo i have to use 16" wheels then huh?

new plan... get suspension stuff, get Rtek 2.0, and find a cheapo 16" wheel to race on. oh and the cage.
ikari899 is offline  
Old 07-16-07, 01:02 PM
  #12  
SCCAEP
iTrader: (3)
 
SCCAITS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Dallas
Posts: 1,080
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by ikari899 View Post
wait i just went though the ITS rules... sooo i have to use 16" wheels then huh?

new plan... get suspension stuff, get Rtek 2.0, and find a cheapo 16" wheel to race on. oh and the cage.
You'll want to read the IT rules slowly, read them again and then read them again. Seriously, read them 3 times with a highlighter in hand. You'll find new things each time you read them. I have read them several times as well as most other racers probably have. The rules specifically state a 16" wheel is not allowed for the 2nd Gen. You'll need to run a 15" wheel with 7" max width. Before you start wasting money on parts you can't legally run, read, read, read and ask questions.

I don't know much about the Rtek 2.0 but unless the ECU mods are done within the original OEM ECU housing it's not legal. There is a legal ECU mod from cludwig for the S5, he recently released it.

If you don't like the rules and want to build away, NASA is the way to go. You get points for your mods, total points determine class - Performance Touring A-F. Build to IT rules, run SCCA and you can also run NASA. Build away or build to NASA and you won't be running SCCA ITS.
SCCAITS is offline  
Old 07-16-07, 03:04 PM
  #13  
engineer wanabe
5 Year Member
Thread Starter
 
ikari899's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: tucson
Posts: 409
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
yeah i read that about ECUs. the Rtek is still in the stock housing. damn 15"s....

yeah dont worry i will read though the rules quite a few more times before spending a single dollar. im used to it from fsae .

like i said i just want to race so i might as well go the cheap route in line with scca rules and get out there before worrying about any thing else.
ikari899 is offline  
Old 07-16-07, 03:31 PM
  #14  
Taste great, more filling
5 Year Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Richter12x2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 2,012
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by wrankin View Post
The Koni's work with the stock valving. The KYB AGX shocks/struts (which is what I run) are a cheaper alternative to the Koni's but won't handle too much more in terms of higher spring rates.
I run 440 fronts and 300 rears with Tokico Illumina's and they hold pretty nice, haven't had a problem out of them, but you're right, they are WAY stiff for street driving (although that hasn't stopped me).

Suspension tuning is such a black art (and so driver dependent) that really the best way to approach it is to set some sort of baseline config (like the GC/koni/RB setup) and then get out on the track and see what work for you. Make some small changes and see how it impacts your times. Lather, rinse, repeat.

-bill
That is a nice thing about the Ground Control setup though, once you've got the kit installed, the Eibach ERS springs that they use are available in all kinds of strengths and lengths, so if you find you want your car a little more tail happy, you can bump up your rear spring rate - if you want less, you can bring it down.

One thing I will say, I don't know if they've changed it yet, but you DO want 2 inches of difference between the front springs and the rears, or the height adjustment aspect of the coilover is almost worthless. I think they ship with a 6" front spring and a 7" rear spring. To level the car out, I'm at the bottom of the fronts and at the top of the rears, otherwise the front will sit higher than the rear. So go with 6" front and 8" rears for a little shorter than stock ride height, or 5" front and 7" rears for even more of a drop, but keep 2" of difference in them so you can fine tune the front and rear heights the way you like it.
Richter12x2 is offline  
Old 07-16-07, 07:59 PM
  #15  
Lives on the Forum
10 Year Member
 
Black91n/a's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: BC, Canada
Posts: 5,707
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
I just did a 3 day track weekend last month with Tein Flex's and they were very good. I got 7kg/mm front springs to replace the stock 6kg/mm ones, so I was running about 390/280 for spring rates, RB front bar and stock rear bar. The car pushed just a little, but with no rear bar I'd be having problems with understeer for sure. I've seen shock dynos of them and they're really quite good, at least as good as Konis, and they are rebuildable and revalveable in the US. They've also got adjustable shock bodies for going really low which is good. Lots and lots of guys with Miatas run them as dual a purpose coilover with great results.

They're good enough that a seasoned racer and instructor used my car to show a novice what good handling should feel like.

Sure they're not a racing coilover, but AGX's Illumina's and Yellows aren't racing shocks, so why does everyone think that the Teins must be crap and those must be great?
Black91n/a is offline  
Old 07-16-07, 08:01 PM
  #16  
Back door, no babies...
iTrader: (14)
 
Davin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: LA, DC & Philly
Posts: 1,399
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
JIC, stance or silk road are way to go. getting a setup that is not engineered together is not very sophisticated in my opinion. my friend had a pair of tien's on his supra and they went to **** real quick. then again, i do have thier springs and i am fairly happy with them. just my 2 cents
Davin is offline  
Old 07-16-07, 08:11 PM
  #17  
Old Rotary Dog
10 Year Member
 
wrankin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Durham, NC
Posts: 1,461
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
You mentioned a V-mount - you do realize that there are no turobcharged cars allowed in SCCA IT Racing - NA only.

Still good for time trials or auto-x, just not door-2-door.

-bill
wrankin is offline  
Old 07-17-07, 10:13 AM
  #18  
Taste great, more filling
5 Year Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Richter12x2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 2,012
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Davin View Post
JIC, stance or silk road are way to go. getting a setup that is not engineered together is not very sophisticated in my opinion. my friend had a pair of tien's on his supra and they went to **** real quick. then again, i do have thier springs and i am fairly happy with them. just my 2 cents
My opinion would be that getting a setup that allowed for changing springs to suit conditions would be MORE sophisticated than a setup that forces you to use only the springs that came with it.
There's nothing wrong with a nice matched coilover setup though, it definitely would make clearance less of an issue, and are apparently awesome for use with camber kits. If I could have gotten a brand new matched coilover setup for the same $650 I spent on my new Illumina/GC/Eibach ERS package and not something like DOUBLE that, I would have been all over it.
Richter12x2 is offline  
Old 07-17-07, 10:50 AM
  #19  
engineer wanabe
5 Year Member
Thread Starter
 
ikari899's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: tucson
Posts: 409
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by wrankin View Post
You mentioned a V-mount - you do realize that there are no turobcharged cars allowed in SCCA IT Racing - NA only.

Still good for time trials or auto-x, just not door-2-door.

-bill
aww poop. o well nasa and auto-x it is then...
ikari899 is offline  
Old 07-17-07, 12:01 PM
  #20  
Lives on the Forum
iTrader: (8)
 
ptrhahn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 8,492
Received 20 Likes on 19 Posts
Time to buy a rule book. Any kind of racing will have rules regarding suspension upgrades, just as they do with turbo charging.
ptrhahn is offline  
Old 07-17-07, 12:41 PM
  #21  
engineer wanabe
5 Year Member
Thread Starter
 
ikari899's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: tucson
Posts: 409
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
yeah i know i try and go though the rules posted online quite a few times before spending any more money.
ikari899 is offline  
Old 07-17-07, 01:23 PM
  #22  
Rotary Enthusiast
5 Year Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: SAN JOSE
Posts: 1,155
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
uh the replacement springs for coilovers are avail through alot of aftermarket companies
drftwerks is offline  
Old 07-17-07, 01:25 PM
  #23  
Taste great, more filling
5 Year Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Richter12x2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 2,012
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Sweet, now all you've got to do is compensate for the $600 difference in price.
Richter12x2 is offline  
Old 07-17-07, 01:27 PM
  #24  
Senior Member
10 Year Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Bunchies's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: CA
Posts: 660
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by OC_ View Post
if you price out the GC/koni with all the other little bits that go along with it, you'll find you come only a $100 or so away from a low end coil over kit; and the coil over kit is going to come with matched shocks and springs and probably be a whole lot better then putting something together yourself.
BTW, i dont think tein makes the HE anymore, its replaced by the SS damper.
True, except with konis, you get the added comfort of knowing you have a damper with decent valving. For a race application, I would stick with koni, bilstein, ohlins, etc.
Bunchies is offline  
Old 07-17-07, 11:08 PM
  #25  
Lives on the Forum
10 Year Member
 
Black91n/a's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: BC, Canada
Posts: 5,707
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
There's an excellent thread on the miata.net forum where there's tons of shock dynos of the Tein Flex, and while I'm no expert, they look pretty darned good to me, and they'll revalve them to suit your application. New springs are available for $50 each and are available in tons of rates and lengths, so you can customise it to your heart's content. Some of the members over there have well in excess of 30k miles on theirs with no issues. There's almost never any reports of issues with them and they've got good customer service and support. That cannot be said about JIC's and they've been known to die very rapidly.

Price out Yellows, GC coilovers, camber plates and rear solid mounts and you're in the same sort ot price range as the Flex.
Black91n/a is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Quick Reply: low cost coilovers


Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

© 2019 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands

We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
 
  • Ask a Question
    Get answers from community experts
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: