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Headlight air duct question

Old 12-29-04, 11:47 AM
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Headlight air duct question

I've been looking at these headlight replacements with the air hole. (attached pic). My probably stupid question is... do these replace the entire headlight or is the headlight still usable at night? Can it just flip up like normal and work as a light too?
Attached Thumbnails Headlight air duct question-headlight.jpg  
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Old 12-29-04, 12:01 PM
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ahhhhhh...........No. And the one you are showing looks like it wouldn't flow enough air to even make it worth doing, so it is probably just for show anyway. The ones we use in E-production are about as big as will fit on the headlight cover and are attached to a hose that can be as large as the headlight bezel as stipulated by the rules, which in turn feeds cool pressurized air to the airbox.
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Old 12-29-04, 02:40 PM
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yes i know all about EProd and i know that those arent functional headlights... i was wondering about the ones sold for street cars.
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Old 12-29-04, 06:03 PM
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those just replace the metal piece...you can still use the headlight
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Old 12-29-04, 09:07 PM
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Originally Posted by specRX7_22
I've been looking at these headlight replacements with the air hole. (attached pic). My probably stupid question is... do these replace the entire headlight or is the headlight still usable at night? Can it just flip up like normal and work as a light too?
That is the Mariah NACA headlight scoop and no, these do not replace the entire headlight assembly, only the OEM headlight lid. And they are functional, especially if you use them with a sealed box. I've attached a pic of the same car... and you can just see the sealed box behind the intake.



Also a pic of the sealed enclosure:



Cheers,

-Bern
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Old 12-29-04, 09:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Boswoj
ahhhhhh...........No. And the one you are showing looks like it wouldn't flow enough air to even make it worth doing, so it is probably just for show anyway. The ones we use in E-production are about as big as will fit on the headlight cover and are attached to a hose that can be as large as the headlight bezel as stipulated by the rules, which in turn feeds cool pressurized air to the airbox.
You better be careful with those rules... a big ****'n came up over this issue at the runoffs this year. There are some that say yes you can bring in the airduct the size of your headlight, but you can not cut, modify, or remove any inner-structure, or create or enlarge existing holes to make the duct go through. They state that only existing non-modified holes maybe used. Ahhh the controversy goes on... if you're regional racing no biggie, but go National and there are all sorts of issues!! got to love the SCCA!

-Bern
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Old 12-30-04, 03:31 AM
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Rules

Yup - it's been a real heated discussion over at the Production website. The wording is incredibly contradictory and vague on a couple of biggies. We finally got a clarification in Fasttrack for the aluminum hub, two piece brakes that don't come apart unexpectedly. I expect the next rules fight will be the air ducting rule which basically says both that you can run air through an interior panel the size of the headlight bezel, AND you can't cut any non-existing holes through existing panels. SO, that leaves three options: 1) No new or enlarged holes through interior panels, 2) air through interior panels where there is already a hole, which can be expanded to the size of the headlight bezel, or 3) cut bezel sized holes where ever needed. No matter what, someone is likely to be left out in the cold with mods that will need to be unmade, or racing against modded guys with an underprepared car waiting to see if what they did was legal so you can do it too!

Ahhhh - racing
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Old 12-30-04, 03:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Boswoj
Yup - it's been a real heated discussion over at the Production website. The wording is incredibly contradictory and vague on a couple of biggies. We finally got a clarification in Fasttrack for the aluminum hub, two piece brakes that don't come apart unexpectedly. I expect the next rules fight will be the air ducting rule which basically says both that you can run air through an interior panel the size of the headlight bezel, AND you can't cut any non-existing holes through existing panels. SO, that leaves three options: 1) No new or enlarged holes through interior panels, 2) air through interior panels where there is already a hole, which can be expanded to the size of the headlight bezel, or 3) cut bezel sized holes where ever needed. No matter what, someone is likely to be left out in the cold with mods that will need to be unmade, or racing against modded guys with an underprepared car waiting to see if what they did was legal so you can do it too!

Ahhhh - racing
You should've seen the soap-opera at the runoffs... wow! And imagine, Pratt Cole won E-Prod without the large bezel holes... all of his air came in through OEM unaltered sized holes. Now if he gets the big ducts and box, watch out!!

-Bern

Last edited by Bern; 12-30-04 at 03:15 PM.
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Old 12-31-04, 12:24 AM
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I saw Pratt when he was up for the NW Region National at Pacific and he smoked Ernie Anderson and Ken Shreve who both go plenty quick in 1st gen Rx-7s. That is one quick package!
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Old 01-01-05, 09:22 AM
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***That is one quick package!***

"Package" being preped car, driver & wallet.

Can someone please tell me why the SCCA Club Racing Porsche Speedster can run a 6 inch duct to the motor through newly cut holes & other cars can not. The guy won several SCCA National Championships with said car. Remember the rule says duct to the motor. The rule don't say to the air box.

I talked to Topeka about the air duct to motor through panels with reference to the $250 rules interpertation rule & was told yes I would get a ruling to my question. I was also told that a rules interpertation wouldn't mean squat at a National race or at the Runoffs. The key word is INTERPERTATION. That word is sort of like another SCCA word INTENT.

Have Fun ; )
David

Last edited by ddewhurst; 01-01-05 at 09:32 AM.
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Old 01-03-05, 08:33 PM
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Originally Posted by ddewhurst
***That is one quick package!***

"Package" being preped car, driver & wallet.

Can someone please tell me why the SCCA Club Racing Porsche Speedster can run a 6 inch duct to the motor through newly cut holes & other cars can not. The guy won several SCCA National Championships with said car. Remember the rule says duct to the motor. The rule don't say to the air box.

I talked to Topeka about the air duct to motor through panels with reference to the $250 rules interpertation rule & was told yes I would get a ruling to my question. I was also told that a rules interpertation wouldn't mean squat at a National race or at the Runoffs. The key word is INTERPERTATION. That word is sort of like another SCCA word INTENT.

Have Fun ; )
David
I agree, but the package in this case is DRIVER, prep'd car & then wallet. I'm sure Pratt could jump in most of the other rides and be as fast or faster then their original drivers... you gotta remember also that Pratt has been developing that Miata for something more than 8 years. IIRC.

True... the rule was written for the mid and rear engined Porsches to get air to the motor, but the INTERPRETATION is the issue; especially when it comes to the stewards at the runoffs.... two had one way of looking at and the other another way... this deal is still not settled! It's going to take a few nasty protest to clear this deal up!

-Bern
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Old 01-04-05, 07:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Bern
You should've seen the soap-opera at the runoffs... wow! And imagine, Pratt Cole won E-Prod without the large bezel holes... all of his air came in through OEM unaltered sized holes. Now if he gets the big ducts and box, watch out!!

-Bern
The Miata needs a lead trophy to slow it down some.

Boswoj, Does anyone make a larger (hole) headlight replacement cover for the first gen?
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Old 01-04-05, 03:31 PM
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Originally Posted by cpa7man
The Miata needs a lead trophy to slow it down some.

Boswoj, Does anyone make a larger (hole) headlight replacement cover for the first gen?

Take a look at some of the 1st gen E-Prod rides on the link below.... also, the headlight lid area is not the best place on the car to get air from... as this is a realitively low pressure area, as compared to the the nose/front of the car.


http://www.mariahmotorsports.com CLICK ON THE RUNOFFS LINK ON THE HOME PAGE for other 1st and 2nd gens

Cheers,

-Bern
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Old 01-04-05, 04:57 PM
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My favorite is the passenger turn signal hole -- IIRC it's well placed to go through the hole evacuated by the headlight assembly.

Also be sure to NOT use the steel/aluminum stove pipe. Because of the ribs in it, instead of being a 3" hose it acts like a much smaller ( say, inch ) hole from the cavitation of the ribs. It's worth the extra bucks to put in smooth tubing.
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Old 01-04-05, 05:13 PM
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Here is the rules from the 2005 GCR.


17.1.1 .9.12. A. Retractable or "pop-uo" headlight assemblies may be removed in their entirety. the openings thus created shall be covered with screens or plates as described immediately above, but need not retain any rims/bezels.

17.1.1.9.12. B. The openings created by the removal of front lighting equipment as well as any other similar openings in the front of the car, may be used to duct air to the engine, radiator, oil cooler(s) and front brakes. Such ducting may pass through interior panels for these purposes. The cross sectional area of a single duct shall not exceed the cross sectional area of the original single headlight lens.

Now the way I understand this rule is that you can remove the headlight unit in it's entirety, then run a duct through interior panels to the engine or oil coolers and front brakes, such as long as the cross sectional area of said duct is not bigger than the cross sectional area of the original headlight lamp. Does this also include the Flash to pass Lens (FTP), and the Turn signal.

Now if you take it to the next step, the fact that you can run one duct from each the headlight unit, the FTP, as well as the turn signal, through the same interior panel seperately. Does that mean you can add all these together and pass one duct the cross sectional size of all three added together.
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Old 01-04-05, 05:57 PM
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Originally Posted by ItsRotary7
Here is the rules from the 2005 GCR.


17.1.1 .9.12. A. Retractable or "pop-uo" headlight assemblies may be removed in their entirety. the openings thus created shall be covered with screens or plates as described immediately above, but need not retain any rims/bezels.

17.1.1.9.12. B. The openings created by the removal of front lighting equipment as well as any other similar openings in the front of the car, may be used to duct air to the engine, radiator, oil cooler(s) and front brakes. Such ducting may pass through interior panels for these purposes. The cross sectional area of a single duct shall not exceed the cross sectional area of the original single headlight lens.

Now the way I understand this rule is that you can remove the headlight unit in it's entirety, then run a duct through interior panels to the engine or oil coolers and front brakes, such as long as the cross sectional area of said duct is not bigger than the cross sectional area of the original headlight lamp. Does this also include the Flash to pass Lens (FTP), and the Turn signal.

Now if you take it to the next step, the fact that you can run one duct from each the headlight unit, the FTP, as well as the turn signal, through the same interior panel seperately. Does that mean you can add all these together and pass one duct the cross sectional size of all three added together.

Such ducting may pass through interior panels for these purposes.


You see, here is the interpretation problem... yes it says that a duct may pass through an interior panel, but no where does it say that you are allowed to enlarge, cut, open, remove, or modify any existing holes in said interior panels. So, some say you may bring the air through that large hole created by the cross-sectional size of the headlight, but you can not modify the interior panels.... some say the opposite. Remember, if it doesn't says you can do it, then you can't. Of course there is the other side, also.

-Bern
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