Race Car Tech Discuss anything related to road racing and auto X.

Geez! chassis plots from events this season

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 09-01-05, 07:24 AM
  #151  
Lives on the Forum

Thread Starter
 
DamonB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Dallas
Posts: 9,617
Likes: 0
Received 8 Likes on 7 Posts
We had another nice event at the same concrete site last weekend but this time I ended up second running a 30.471 to the winning Z06's 30.342. Actually I'm very happy with my time as this course had a very slow first gear pivot corner in it that I thought for sure the vettes would murder me on. Either I was wrong or they were slow Out of six runs I ran three 30.4's; I don't think I was capable of going any faster.

This course was short and looked pretty simple but there were a couple key turns that could decimate your time if you blew them. The car launches hard off the start and into a 4 cone slalom entering from the left. I had to give up speed before passing the last gate of the slalom to setup for the long right hander that leads into a fast 3 cone slalom. Again speed had to be given up early as you stood on the brakes and downshifted to first as you rounded a single cone that marked a 180 degree right turn. Accelerate hard out and back into second gear, bending the car left through an offset and then up into a fast 135 degree left hander. Exit here and hold the throttle nearly flat all the way through the last offset and past the finish.

The two key turns were the pivot corner where I had to go down to first (I can't remember the last time I had to go to first!) and the fast left hander before the finish. The course was short but overall fast so not getting everything right would really hurt you.

The first attached pic shows the numbers of my first and slowest run at 31.249 on the left and my fastest run of 30.405 (this run did not count towards class standings) on the right. I never changed my approach to the course other than using a parabolic line through the pivot corner after my second run and I never changed the car, it was just a matter of execution. I thought I would do some time splits to see what the differences between the runs were. The second attached pic shows the splits I'll be comparing with 1 being the start and 5 being the finish.

Slow run:
1-2: 11.2 sec
2-3: 7.9 sec
3-4: 8.4 sec
4-5: 5.2 sec

Fast run:
1-2: 11.0 sec
2-3: 7.8 sec
3-4: 7.9 sec
4-5: 5.2 sec

On the fast run I made up .2 secs through the 1-2 split by launching the car harder. On my first and second runs I never light the tires up at the start because I figure I'll go faster later on when I've seen the course a few times so I save the rubber. The 2-3 section is nearly the same but I did a much better job of getting around that horribly tight pivot corner ("3" on the map) as I dropped half a second from there to the next turn!
Attached Thumbnails Geez! chassis plots from events this season-course.jpg   Geez! chassis plots from events this season-split.jpg  

Last edited by DamonB; 09-01-05 at 08:53 AM.
Old 09-01-05, 07:33 AM
  #152  
Lives on the Forum

Thread Starter
 
DamonB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Dallas
Posts: 9,617
Likes: 0
Received 8 Likes on 7 Posts
One of our local guys, Dennis Rothermich, was out taking pics again and got a few of my car. The first is exiting "2" towards the 3 cone slalom. The second shows me setting up to enter the slalom from the left and the third shows me braking and giving up speed early as I exit the slalom. The fourth is standing the car on its nose under 1.11 g of braking to scrub the rest of my speed. My right hand is already on the shifter heading towards first gear at the instant before I wind the car hard around the single pivot cone. You can just make out the top of the cone as a blur at the right front corner of the car.
Attached Thumbnails Geez! chassis plots from events this season-exit.jpg   Geez! chassis plots from events this season-setup.jpg   Geez! chassis plots from events this season-giveup.jpg   Geez! chassis plots from events this season-stop-.jpg  

Last edited by DamonB; 09-01-05 at 07:38 AM.
Old 09-01-05, 07:57 AM
  #153  
Lives on the Forum

Thread Starter
 
DamonB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Dallas
Posts: 9,617
Likes: 0
Received 8 Likes on 7 Posts
Here is the pivot corner isolated on two maps. Lateral acceleration is on the left of each chart and throttle/brake is on the right. You can notice the tooth in the accel charts as I upshifted back to second on the way out.

The slow run is first and then the fast run. Looking at the strip charts you can see I drove this turn completely differently on these two runs; notice the completely different lateral charts. On the slow run I used a wider arc at entry and exit; trail braking heavily as I normally do. On the fast run I still trail braked heavily but used a parabolic line; the lateral chart for that run illustrates this.
Attached Thumbnails Geez! chassis plots from events this season-normal.jpg   Geez! chassis plots from events this season-parabolic.jpg  

Last edited by DamonB; 09-01-05 at 08:10 AM.
Old 09-05-05, 10:09 AM
  #154  
Lives on the Forum

Thread Starter
 
DamonB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Dallas
Posts: 9,617
Likes: 0
Received 8 Likes on 7 Posts
Every racecar guy needs to get out and buy Peter Wright's book "Ferrari Formula 1: Under the skin of the championship winning F1-2000" as it is the best book a racecar nut could ever have. I was flipping through my copy again looking at some of the datalog graphs trying to figure out what Schumi can do that I can't

How about some perspective of what my car can do compared to Michael Schumacher's 2000 F1 championship car?

Braking on Ferrari's 2000 F1 car is in a word insane. Because of the aero drag at high speed the F1-2000 driver brakes at 1.1g just by lifting off the throttle (the highest brake g I have ever recorded on my FD is about that!). Once the F1 driver actually presses the brake pedal the car can decel at a rate of 4.2g! This is true of the 2000 car anyway; it is said that max brake g's are now in excess of 5g

On the other hand the F1-2000's acceleration g is not quite so stratospheric compared to my car. Peter says that:

"Acceleration is traction limited to around 150 kph (93 mph) and power limited above that speed. The peak acceleration at 150 kph is 1.5g. Straight line acceleration, at speeds below the power limit, is the one characteristic that is hurt by the quest for a low center of gravity height. For pure traction, the maximum load transferred onto the rear wheels is required. Traction also is one characteristic that limits the forward biased weight distribution that has occurred since rear tyre width was limited by the regulations.

It may be surprising that the 0 to 100 kph time is not so superior to a high performance road car. With any car whose initial acceleration from a stand still is traction limited, power and weight do not come into the equation, and downforce has little benefit at very low speeds"

Even so the F1-2000 does 0-100 kph (about 62 mph) in 2.8 seconds, and the quarter mile in 8.8 seconds at 297 kph (185 mph).

My car might do that if driven off a bridge
Old 09-18-05, 03:40 PM
  #155  
Mad Man

 
Carl Byck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Big Island Hawaii
Posts: 2,758
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Well, I should have my Geez in a couple days, I cannot wait to start learning about it, and next year using it on the track. Carl
Old 09-28-05, 12:13 PM
  #156  
Lives on the Forum

Thread Starter
 
DamonB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Dallas
Posts: 9,617
Likes: 0
Received 8 Likes on 7 Posts
Someone has a complete Geez! package for sale on ebay right now. It even includes the Palm and the price is good!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Extem...spagenameZWDVW
Old 09-28-05, 03:53 PM
  #157  
DFW Drunk by Proxy

 
Umrswimr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Valley Ranch, Tx
Posts: 2,291
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
See you next weekend at ER?

I have to go learn how to drive again. I haven't made it out in MONTHS.
Old 09-28-05, 04:44 PM
  #158  
Lives on the Forum

Thread Starter
 
DamonB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Dallas
Posts: 9,617
Likes: 0
Received 8 Likes on 7 Posts
Originally Posted by Umrswimr
See you next weekend at ER?
Yep. Lots-o-racin' coming.

ER on Oct 9; Bedford
SCCA on Oct 16; TMS
SCCA on Oct 23; TMS
ER on Oct 29; Mineral Wells
ER on Oct 30; Mineral Wells

ER's event on the Oct 29 is going to be similar to a ProSolo. Two mirror image courses with a drag race start. They plan for each course to be about 60 seconds so this should be a blast. I may not have rubber left at the end of the season after all
Old 09-30-05, 01:31 PM
  #159  
DFW Drunk by Proxy

 
Umrswimr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Valley Ranch, Tx
Posts: 2,291
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Oh dear...I don't think my tires will last that long!

My brother's going to be in town for the 9th- I'm gonna introduce him to racing.
Old 10-11-05, 09:45 AM
  #160  
Lives on the Forum

Thread Starter
 
DamonB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Dallas
Posts: 9,617
Likes: 0
Received 8 Likes on 7 Posts
Back on concrete this past weekend and the car felt great. This course was fun to drive and had one really tricky section right at the end with a big decreasing radius 180* right turn that immediately dumped you into a tight 180* left hander and to the finish. I tried 3 approaches to this set of turns. Two worked well and one was terrible

My fastest time in SS put me in second place, .6 behind the winning Z06. This course had a fast momentum overall so I never felt down on power while waiting for boost, hence I was able to stay closer to the winning driver. I wouldn't normally expect to be so close on such a short course but with turbo lag not being an issue the car was fast. Complete results here . My car really took to this course and I felt I drove well but the course was more challenging than it looked. It was one of those courses where the fast guys were much faster than usual over the slower guys as mistakes or under driving dearly cost you time.

I made 6 runs with 4 counting towards the class standings and the final 2 pax'd against the entire field. Times for the weekend:

31.546
30.671
30.992
30.544
30.455+1
30.317

Here is the map from Run 1. The start is at the lower right corner. Launch fairly hard and into second gear (3 secs) before the left hander at 5 secs and into the slalom. Still accelerating the car hard into and through the first half of the slalom before maintaining speed but feeling the car out with the throttle. Give it up early at the slalom exit (10 secs), braking hard to slow before entering the next banked (on camber) left hander. Trailing completely off the brakes at turn in and accelerating through the entire corner. Around a slight left kink (15 secs) and again giving up early and braking hard. Trailing off the brakes completely during turn in and accelerating through a downhill increasing radius right hander, exiting this turn at 21 secs. Now the tricky part. On this initial run you can see me brake very early at 22 secs and bend the car into the right hander pretty hard as I slowly accelerate again. As the radius decreased I realized I was going to be too hot to setup for the following turn so you see me go back to the brakes about 2/3 of the way around the turn at 26 secs. I speed the car back up around the last bit of the right hander before a short stab at the brakes again (29 secs) to set the front end up for the final tight left where I'm able to accelerate completely through the turn and into the finish.
Attached Thumbnails Geez! chassis plots from events this season-slow.jpg  

Last edited by DamonB; 10-11-05 at 09:59 AM.
Old 10-11-05, 11:36 AM
  #161  
Lives on the Forum

Thread Starter
 
DamonB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Dallas
Posts: 9,617
Likes: 0
Received 8 Likes on 7 Posts
The scores on the first run were ok but the time itself was slow. A few changes brought a big drop in time. For the second run I essentially drove with the same lines and brakes points of the first except I was more aggressive with the throttle through out the course and I braked even earlier before turning into the decreasing right hander at 22 secs. This run gave me nearly a .9 improvement so for the third run I thought I would brake even earlier still and try to accelerate harder around this turn. That idea cost me as it meant I didn't get to maintain my high speed as long on the way in and even though I had the car loaded up hard around the corner and accelerating I was .3 slower than my fastest to that point.

Back to square one on the fourth run. I thought about double apexing this corner but it was such a tight turn real estate wise I didn't feel there was really enough room to make it meaningful. I tried it anyway. This was my fastest run so far but I still didn't feel like I had that corner mastered. I didn't think the gain in time was really in double apexing that corner but rather doing a better job of driving the entire course as I was entering every turn faster and putting more faith in the grip of the car. Cornering g everywhere was considerably higher than other runs.

My idea for the fifth run was to brake and enter just as I did on the second but rather than increasing the steering of the car through the decreasing radius I was going to rotate the rear farther and farther around with the throttle as I traveled around the turn. This brought my fastest time yet but unfortunately I clipped a cone on the inside around 26 seconds as I over rotated the car slightly. You had to stay in very tight in that spot to give you as much room as possible for the final tight left turn. I knew it was going to be close but the slip I had going was so beautiful and I knew if I opened the steering up I was going to start chasing the car every where I ran over the base of the cone with the right front tire but even so the raw time was my fastest yet. Maybe I was onto something.

One run to go and I figured I'd do exactly the same thing as the fifth run but do a better job of managing the slip of the rear end around the final turns. This is not ***** out drifting as the steering is never under opposite lock, but I am slipping the rear tires under power around the outside of the turn to point the front into the corner. Inside the car it certainly feels like a slide but from outside it's not quite so obvious since the car never actually over rotates around the turn. Got it all right this time and was rewarded with another tenth and a half improvement; a full 1.2 seconds quicker than my first run that day.

Map for the fastest run below as well as making the turn into the slalom. Check out how far the front tire is peeled away from the wheel lip. The V710 has soft sidewalls and likes low tire pressures!
Attached Thumbnails Geez! chassis plots from events this season-fast.jpg   Geez! chassis plots from events this season-turn.jpg  

Last edited by DamonB; 10-11-05 at 04:07 PM.
Old 10-11-05, 12:24 PM
  #162  
Lives on the Forum

Thread Starter
 
DamonB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Dallas
Posts: 9,617
Likes: 0
Received 8 Likes on 7 Posts
I thought I would compare some speeds and distances between the fast and slow runs. The slow run was fairly quick but overall much less aggressive in throttle usage and I was sloppy with my line in a couple places.

The slow (first) run is on the left and the fast (final) run is on the right. Distance is measured from the start to the bullseye on the map.

You can see the for the first portion of the run I was generally tighter and covering less distance. At the middle I was still about even but let the car come out wider at the exit of the left hander at the top left corner. From there the distances are completely different as I use completely different lines through the decreasing right hander.
Attached Thumbnails Geez! chassis plots from events this season-dist1.jpg   Geez! chassis plots from events this season-dist2.jpg   Geez! chassis plots from events this season-dist3.jpg  
Old 10-11-05, 12:49 PM
  #163  
Lives on the Forum

Thread Starter
 
DamonB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Dallas
Posts: 9,617
Likes: 0
Received 8 Likes on 7 Posts
Many people get confused with the acceleration chart as the chart only shows just that: acceleration. It's entirely possible to have two acceleration charts that look nearly the same and yet the speeds are completely different. If I'm already at a higher rate of speed before I accelerate again then obviously I'm going to be traveling much faster at the end. The initial velocity before the acceleration takes place is what determines the final speed.

Here's an example of speed differences. Which run is faster overall is quite obvious.
Attached Thumbnails Geez! chassis plots from events this season-speed1.jpg   Geez! chassis plots from events this season-speed2.jpg   Geez! chassis plots from events this season-speed3.jpg   Geez! chassis plots from events this season-speed4.jpg   Geez! chassis plots from events this season-speed5.jpg  


Last edited by DamonB; 10-11-05 at 12:56 PM.
Old 10-11-05, 12:52 PM
  #164  
Lives on the Forum

Thread Starter
 
DamonB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Dallas
Posts: 9,617
Likes: 0
Received 8 Likes on 7 Posts
More speeds.
Attached Thumbnails Geez! chassis plots from events this season-speed6.jpg   Geez! chassis plots from events this season-speed7.jpg  

Last edited by DamonB; 10-12-05 at 10:34 AM.
Old 10-11-05, 01:03 PM
  #165  
Lives on the Forum

Thread Starter
 
DamonB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Dallas
Posts: 9,617
Likes: 0
Received 8 Likes on 7 Posts
I've been asked about my usage scores going down slightly as now I'm consistently in the high 80's or low 90's whereas before I was in the mid to high 90's. Without a doubt my actual times have gotten faster but my scores are coming up lower because I don't tend to go as deep into corners before braking. The trade off I'm making however is I'm getting back onto the gas much sooner in the corner and am speeding the car up through the entire corner, not just after the apex. I quite often now brake hard much before turn in and am fully back onto the throttle as I rotate towards apex.

My goal lately has been to maximize throttle usage and for the most part I let that goal dictate my brake points. I still trail brake heavily but I'm doing the hardest braking much earlier than I previously did. In years past I tended to brake deep into corners and be back on the gas right at apex as I would wait for the front to rotate the car the correct amount around the turn before speeding the car up hard. Now I tend to be much harder on the gas much earlier as I round the corner and I use the throttle to balance the car as it rounds the turn. If I feel a push coming I can back out slightly but still be accelerating. If the rear over rotates I can back out of the throttle or perhaps drive through it and just catch the car with the steering wheel. I made the same adjustments to the car's cornering attitude in the past but I did it while slowing and using the brakes, now I'm doing it while speeding up and using the throttle. This makes turn in even more important though and is less forgiving of mistakes since the car is hard under power.

Looking at my map above you can see 5 distinct red spots showing very low usage, but all 5 were on purpose and have the same thing in common. I purposely quit accelerating earlier and braked harder much earlier in the turn before going back hard on the throttle. Notice my acceleration traces at 10 and 15 seconds as the car is sped up for the entire distance around the turn. This is really paying off for me in maximum speed reached before the next brake point and so my lap times are really improving even though my usage scores seem to be getting poorer. If I were to start driving deep into corners with the brakes on fire and pitching the car around hard at apex you'd see my scores go back up, but so would my lap times Excellent usage does not ensure excellent lap times. The key now is where my low usage values are.
Old 10-13-05, 12:05 PM
  #166  
DFW Drunk by Proxy

 
Umrswimr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Valley Ranch, Tx
Posts: 2,291
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
You looked really good out there last weekend, Damon. I have to get the software re-installed on my computer here, but my results were not pretty.
Old 10-24-05, 10:01 AM
  #167  
Lives on the Forum

Thread Starter
 
DamonB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Dallas
Posts: 9,617
Likes: 0
Received 8 Likes on 7 Posts
I'm running a week behind! Here's the stuff from a week ago and I'll try and get the results from yesterday up within a couple days.

This event was at the slick site which is sealed asphalt. Surface grip is undoubtedly less than at any of our other sites but the cars are still plenty controllable. I think I'm one of the few who really enjoys running out there

Not too much to say about this event other than I was disappointed with myself on my first run. I setup the car differently for this site and have been making changes to that setup all year and didn't learn my lessons from the previous event there a few weeks prior when the car was nearly perfect. I went out running the "normal" setup for that location instead of the "new" one I had just tried that worked so well previously on that surface. Basically the new setup was tire pressures a few pounds lower at all corners, 1/2 a turn softer on the front shocks (normally I run 2 full turns) and the rear shocks 1 turn stiffer (normally on slow, tight courses they are fully soft). This setup has let me keep the front sway bar at the setting I like (not soften it) and yet not leave me with a mid-corner push that seems to be a problem for everyone out there. The stiffer rear shock setting lets me rotate the rear of the car around easier under power so I can still attack hard when the front end tries to push. Of course the driving style is totally different as well. Essentially I brake earlier so I can be back on the throttle and use power to help rotate the car.

This surface is low grip and you really have to free the chassis of the car up to let it work. If you depend too much on tire grip rather than mechanical grip here you end up slow. I have found this changed setup much faster for me, but it's also less forgiving. In all the slow corners I'm actually rotating both ends of the car. I brake a little earlier and turn the car in with the steering wheel but then I rotate the car down into the apex with the throttle. Modulate power while the car apexes and when done correctly the rear will begin to hook up again as soon as I open the steering up. At that point I'm accelerating even harder and heading out of the corner. The rear is never brought so far around that counter steering is required, but since I am slipping the rear around as well I don't need as much steering angle once I turn in. From the past couple events at this site you'll notice my acceleration traces moving around a lot as the car travels through the corner, showing the constant adjustment of the throttle. If I'm not in the power enough the car will push at turn in and if I'm in it too much you have to catch the tail. Get it right though and the car just dances around and is a real blast to drive

This course was tighter than what we normally have there but it was challenging to drive fast and I really enjoyed it. Unfortunately all of my SS competitors were not there so I was left alone in class. I was outrun by one driver in an AS Boxster S which turned a 64.0 to my 64.3 but I'll take that. This course was tight and though long it drove like a short course and IMO was more suited to the Boxster. My times were faster than all other stock class drivers save that one.

We made five runs. My times were:

66.662
64.813
65.855
64.682 +1
64.389

After the first run I realized I under drove the car the entire length of the course and also kicked myself for not setting the car up correctly out of the box. I guess I just wanted to prove the new setup would really work better so I tried the old one first. After mentally abusing myself for sucking on the first run I dialed the car in and just stood on it while the times tumbled. I can't recall right now what happened on the third run to make it slow (that's the danger of me waiting a week to post!) but IIRC I only changed the car one time and that was after the first run. Chalk up the third run slowing down to driver error.

Below are track maps from the first and fifth runs. Scores are pretty much the same but remember I made changes to the car between these two runs so the car was much faster for the fifth run.
Attached Thumbnails Geez! chassis plots from events this season-run1.jpg   Geez! chassis plots from events this season-run5.jpg  

Last edited by DamonB; 10-24-05 at 10:19 AM.
Old 10-24-05, 10:16 AM
  #168  
Lives on the Forum

Thread Starter
 
DamonB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Dallas
Posts: 9,617
Likes: 0
Received 8 Likes on 7 Posts
The start is at the lower end of the pics above. It was really tight and curvy until the left hander at about 15 seconds in and this is one place where I drove completely differently between the first run and all the rest. The red line and bullseye in the maps above show the point where I shifted from first to second. On the first run I shirt shifted early because I knew the corner was slow and there was no need for power. This made it difficult for me to get the car around the left hander at 6 seconds and through the Chicago box at 10 seconds because the front end wanted to push. With so much camber in the car it's very easy to push in really tight, slow turns (especially when the surface is slick!) because you never load the tire up enough for the camber to work for you. To fix this problem I left the car in first and just zinged the hell out of it through there before shifting to second as I left the box (I was on the rev limiter in first when in the box). Using first gear made it easier to get the car through the initial portion as I was slipping the rear around the first couple corners. Pointing the car in with the rear rather than the front means I don't have to lift just so I can make the car turn. This is why I prefer RWD to FWD. With a FWD car you can only drive one end of the car

Below are some times with RPM displayed. Once I got the car working and quit driving timidly after the first run the car was much faster. The times displayed are from the start to the bullseye along with RPM at that same point. Notice I picked up over a full second just in the first portion of the course one I dialed the car in and left it in first gear longer. The last half of the course sees much more RPM as well as I wasn't forced to slow so much to get the car to rotate around those corners.
Attached Thumbnails Geez! chassis plots from events this season-b.jpg   Geez! chassis plots from events this season-c.jpg   Geez! chassis plots from events this season-d.jpg  
Old 10-28-05, 07:22 AM
  #169  
Lives on the Forum

Thread Starter
 
DamonB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Dallas
Posts: 9,617
Likes: 0
Received 8 Likes on 7 Posts
In the interest of continuing the streak of running behind I now bring you last weekend's runs the day before the next event We were at the same slick, sealed asphalt site as two weeks ago but this time it was even slicker. It rained! It was very windy and cold but at least the people in the first two heats got to run in the dry. Those of us in the third heat get rained on and although it was never more than a steady drizzle, on this surface any water at all feels miserable. Winning times for this event were all over the place as some people got dry runs, some got dry and wet and some got only wet.

As I was gridding my car I could see the rain was coming. It was already very cold (with the wind temps had to be in the high 40's) so we all knew it was going to get interesting. Rain began spitting down just before my first run and my only thoughts were that this first run may be the most dry all day so I had better make it good. I took the chance that I could get the first run in while there was just a very slight drizzle and so didn't soften the car up completely. The rear shocks were fully soft but I left a full turn in the front. I didn't have time to soften the front sway bar so it was set as always (too stiff for these conditions!). Just before pulling to the starting line the rain picked up a little and began to fully wet the surface. At least with cars running constantly the line stayed merely damp rather than wet. I made what I felt was an OK run but then was disappointed with myself just as the week before. I didn't push as hard as I should have and was too conservative. I got lucky as I was the first car out in SS and my time had me .8 in front after one run. That was a relief because I knew I had time left in the car.

Run 2 came up and it was now raining harder. I took all the shock out of the front end as well and dropped tire pressures 5 pounds all around. At launch I knew instantly the course was much slicker and knew I would not go any faster so the day would go exactly as I figured in my mind. With that in mind I had some fun and did a big slow motion drift for about half the length of the loop after the start. That was fun so I pitched the car around a little here and there just messing around until I found the bottom half of the course was much slicker and my nice slow motion drift turned into a nice slow motion spin It's hard to get moving again because the surface is so slick but once underway I again flicked the tail out exiting a turn and rode it a good distance before running out of steering and spinning it a second time. Alright, fun's over My time was about 30 second slower. Those who didn't spin twice were 15-20 seconds slower on their second run.

For Run 3 the rain slacked up a little and the conditions were about the same as they were for Run 1. I decided to drop the tire pressure a few more pounds and figured I may get a chance afterall to go faster. This time I concentrated intently on keeping the car neat, turning in very slowly to avoid any push and really focused on exactly how much power I could get down (not much!). Tire pressures were now about 8 pounds lower than the first run . I improved 3 full seconds and I knew I was out in front safely now. The 3 seconds came from drastically lower tire pressures, the front end being a little softer now and the fact that I was more focused during the run.

Run 4 saw the rain pick up again and I headed out for what would be practice since it was wetter now. 3/4 of the way through I was red flagged for catching the car in front of me and decided to go ahead and take the re-run for more practice. Time for the re-run now that the rain was heavier again was about 14 seconds slower.

So in five runs it was damp, wet, damp, wet, wet.
Old 10-28-05, 07:31 AM
  #170  
Lives on the Forum

Thread Starter
 
DamonB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Dallas
Posts: 9,617
Likes: 0
Received 8 Likes on 7 Posts
Here's the map of my quickest run. Notice how low all the sustained readings are (and this was the good one!). Driving in the wet requires completely different strategy. The chassis needs to be freed up so it can work under the lower loads and the same goes for the tires (unless you're on rain tires). You need to pay strict attention to transitioning the car at all times and the whole racing line thing goes out the window. If there is any dry pavement anywhere than drive to the dry, regardless of how goofy your line looks. When courses have dry spots here and there I connect the dots between the most dry parts, but on this day there was no dry to be found anywhere. Since the car is going so much slower you must concentrate on keeping your line short and minimize distance every chance you get. Don't drive "normally" and start out wide, turn in and then track out wide. Drive the car right around the inside of all the turns, always concentrating on shortening the distance and getting what power down you can. Since you're going so slowly distance becomes even more important. Regardless of conditions any time the course forces you to go slow then do anything you can to shorten the distance.
Attached Thumbnails Geez! chassis plots from events this season-run3.jpg  
Old 10-28-05, 07:42 AM
  #171  
Lives on the Forum

Thread Starter
 
DamonB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Dallas
Posts: 9,617
Likes: 0
Received 8 Likes on 7 Posts
The wet makes an excellent example of tire capabilities. The friction circle of the tire and the friction circle of the vehicle are two different things. Assuming a rwd vehicle with four tires there are 4 tires capable of braking, 4 capable of cornering and only 2 capable of acceleration. You'll notice that every single result I've ever posted has less acceleration g than cornering or braking; during acceleration only 2 tires can contribute

Below is a summary of all 5 runs. You can see right off the bat which ones were wetter than others but look at the sustained readings themselves. Acceleration ability suffers the most. Next in line is cornering and then braking. Keep in mind when it's wet that even though grip is reduced it's not reduced equally everywhere. Even though you can't accelerate well you can still brake surprisingly hard. Cornering g is also still pretty good if you can force yourself to transition the car very slowly. Cars never react instantly and when gip is poor they take even longer. Give the car time to respond to all of your inputs and don't ask it to do something else if it's not already done doing what you asked just before. The same is still true for the dry but since things happen so much more quickly in the dry many times we forget to focus on transitioning the chassis.
Attached Thumbnails Geez! chassis plots from events this season-summary.jpg  

Last edited by DamonB; 10-28-05 at 07:49 AM.
Old 10-28-05, 07:46 AM
  #172  
Lives on the Forum

Thread Starter
 
DamonB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Dallas
Posts: 9,617
Likes: 0
Received 8 Likes on 7 Posts
Here are friction circles from the first and third run. The third run was about as wet as the first but the car had big changes made to it. Looking at the traces you can see on the third run I was better able to maintain maximum cornering and I was able to blend a little more accelerating and braking with my turning. You can also see some really strange traces in both where the car seems to instantly change direction. These are all places where the car began slipping and it had to be corrected.

Saturday we are running a ProSolo type local event that should be tons of fun. Sunday we'll run a regular autocross. That will end the season for one club and I believe it's 2 weeks off before the final SCCA event.
Attached Thumbnails Geez! chassis plots from events this season-friction.jpg  
Old 11-04-05, 09:52 AM
  #173  
Lives on the Forum

Thread Starter
 
DamonB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Dallas
Posts: 9,617
Likes: 0
Received 8 Likes on 7 Posts
Last weekend closed the season out for our local Equipe Rapide autocross club. Traditionally the final weekend is setup like a Divisional or National Tour event with running on both Saturday and Sunday with changes made to the course between the two days. This year was different.

On Saturday we ran a ProSolo style event with two mirror imaged courses. A pair of cars make a side by side drag race start before diverging onto the seperate courses. Our club does not have a tree and the complete starting light setup for the drag race start so even though both cars were launching at the same time technically they were not racing eachother because they each had their own start beacon. It was just fine to let the other guy take off because your own time wouldn't start until you broke your own beam. Nonetheless it's a lot of fun to line up head to head and grudge matches were the theme of the day I don't have those runs here yet as there are a bunch (I made 6 per side for a total of 12) and I haven't had the time to put them up. It's one thing for me to look at the data and find out what I want to know, but it's more work to post stuff here and try to give some thoughts and explanations.

Saturday was a good day though as I ran away from the rest of SS being over 1.5 seconds faster on the left and over 1 second faster on the right; running 41's on both sides. Results here. I'll share those runs later as they are interesting with the drag race start. We get to see what the car is truly capable of acceleration wise (on not quite the best of surfaces) and how my best starts impacted sector times. The car and I ran well as I did have fastest times for all of stock, street prepared, street mod and street mod 2. Only one other door slammer was faster with a very fast and powerful STU Subaru STi putting half a tenth on me for the weekend. I would have liked to see what his launches were like because I have ridden in an ESP Evo that startled me the first time it launched. It's amazing how hard the 4wd cars can come out of the hole.

Here's a teaser after I have left the line and won the drag race to turn in on the first cone in the slalom after the start. This slalom was fast so I concentrated hard all day on being a knat's *** off of the cones here. I'll try and get those Geez! results up this weekend.
Attached Thumbnails Geez! chassis plots from events this season-drag.jpg  

Last edited by DamonB; 11-04-05 at 10:01 AM.
Old 11-04-05, 11:02 AM
  #174  
Lives on the Forum

Thread Starter
 
DamonB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Dallas
Posts: 9,617
Likes: 0
Received 8 Likes on 7 Posts
After the ProSolo style event on Saturday we had a normal autox on Sunday at the same site. I really enjoyed this course as it has a nice mix of showing how big your nuts were in a couple parts as well as some really challenging sections to get right. I had another good day as I outran the rest of SS once again. Mark Sipe in his BS RX-8 was absolutely blazing fast, running a 62.5 (!) to my 64.2. His car hooks up so well that I swear the throttle stays on the floor the entire time he isn't on the brakes. Really fun to watch.

Here is my first run on Sunday. I ran a 64.8 which was already good enough to win SS for the day but I thought that for a first run it was merely alright; nothing stellar. Apparently it was better than I thought though because after turning that time and with 5 runs left my goal for the day was to break into the 63's. I only barely managed to do that on my 5th run turning a 63.9; My other fast times were low 64's. Results here.

This course was typical in that there was a tight turn immediately after the start to prevent drag race style launches. In my case I was spinning the tires up enough to rotate the car to the right while only traveling a few feet, then letting the car hook up and tearing towards the carousel. Maximum speed for this course was just before braking for the carousel and I was seeing speeds of about 72mph. This carousel was not perfectly round; the beginning was an increasing radius before pinching slightly. I was trailbraking into the carousel but not very deeply, getting back on the power this run at 9 seconds in. The bullseye on the course map is at 13.5 seconds in the middle of a short jab at the brakes for a moment to set the front end. The car has started to push a little and it continued to push as the power came on so I had to set the front once again by using the brakes. This would be the perfect opportunity to left foot brake but I'm only rarely doing that on the course. That's one thing I hope to work on over the winter and will try and drive next season as a left foor braker.

Coming out of the carousel I brake hard at 20 secs to slow the car down for the coming right hander. This section was off camber, uphill and dirty. I had problems all day putting power down here as I was traction limited from about 23-28 secs. You can see the car accelerating in that section but gingerly as I tried to hold it at the verge of wheelspin. It didn't help that at 26 secs there was a bump that would upset the rear of the car. The crest of the hill is at 29 secs right in the middle of the left hander. Carry as much power as possible around this turn and then stand on it through the kink before braking hard at 35 sec and entering a left turn that starts the car downhill again. The area from 40-45 seconds was also dirty so you had to use care as it only got worse if you were pulled out wide into the marbles. Exit into a 5 cone slalom at 44 secs that continues downhill and was dirty once again. Brake the car just a little to scrub off some speed and set the front as it's turned into an increasing left hander at 48 secs. Through a fairly sharp right hand kink and slow the car hard before a 3 cone slalom that dumps you into a very tight left hander with one more offset still to navigate before making it to the finish.

The 3 cone slalom at the end was very important because there was nothing to keep you from blasting all the way through it and then finding out there was no way in hell you were going to make the left turn towards the finish I was slowing hard into the slalom, speeding up through it and then slowing hard and early just before exiting the slalom while turning the car hard to the left. As soon as the front end was hooked up and the car was turning I'm back on the gas hard towards the finish with a brief lift as I make it through the final offset. The left turn at 62 seconds was harder than it looked. It was terribly easy to enter it too fast but slowing down meant you had to do it while navigating a slalom. It was very easy to go too fast and cars were unmercifully pushing all day long there. You had to force yourself to look far ahead on course and slow down or you'd blow it every single time.
Attached Thumbnails Geez! chassis plots from events this season-run1.jpg  
Old 11-04-05, 11:10 AM
  #175  
Lives on the Forum

Thread Starter
 
DamonB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Dallas
Posts: 9,617
Likes: 0
Received 8 Likes on 7 Posts
The start on this course had a generous amount of room before the carousel so after rolling the first 20 feet around the right hander right at the start it was purely a matter of accelerating the car as hard as possible. According to Geez I made 60 mph in a tick over 6 seconds while only covering 275 feet. That's really good considering that I couldn't launch the car immediately down the straight, I first had to rotate the *** end around the tight corner before letting it hook up and really charge.

I did the first 1/4 mile in just under 20 seconds which is also great when you consider only the first 9 seconds were in a straight line and I was using the brakes throughout
Attached Thumbnails Geez! chassis plots from events this season-run1a.jpg  


Quick Reply: Geez! chassis plots from events this season



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:14 PM.