Race Car Tech Discuss anything related to road racing and auto X.

FB competitive in CSP against Miatas?

Old 05-01-10, 07:19 PM
  #1  
DIRTY RX
10 Year Member
Thread Starter
 
mazdaspeedrex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Omaha, NE
Posts: 368
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
FB competitive in CSP against Miatas?

I'm wondering what ideas anyone has to make my 12a FB more competitive with the Miatas in SCCA's CSP autox class. In the ProSolo in Lincoln today I was 12 seconds slower than the worst of the 3 Miata drivers. Granted 1 was last years Solo National Champ and another was top 5 but that doesn't explain the whole 12 seconds. I know some of it is the slow guy behind the wheel but I'm working on that. I closed in by 2 seconds from the morning to the afternoon.

My list of mods so far:
Rotary Engineering dual Weber DCD carb/intake
Holley Blue fuel pump
RB header back exhaust
Energy Suspension poly bushings all over the place
Eibach front springs
Ground Control rear springs
Kumho Ecsta V710 215/50R13 on stock wheels

Shocks and struts are next but how much difference will they make and what would be better, adjustable or not?
Any other ideas?
mazdaspeedrex is offline  
Old 05-01-10, 08:44 PM
  #2  
Senior Member
iTrader: (8)
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Akron area
Posts: 441
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
to answer your question YES shocks will help you time. But what you have to under stand is that the Miatas ( at least the Nat. winning one ) are preped to the rule book ad only do one thing well auto-x.
If you want to go faster with a first gen RX-7 the one of the first things you need to get is the setup book from Jim Susko @ Gforceengineering.net. he has build and run sa/fb cars for year.
if your going to relpace you shocks replace them with adjustable shocks(Koni, Tokico, or Advance Design I use these). you should also upgrade your entire suspension coilovers, camber plates,and a bigger sway bar inthe front. are some things to do . you can get these parts from Gforce Engineering, Ground Control , Respeed. I have been using a combination of Ground Control and GForce for over 8 yrs. with no problems.
Some other things to look at are your braking material, are you using stock pads or race compound I am currently using Hawk HP+ pads front and rear.
Are you running a limited slip out of a gsl or a gsl-se? if not you are giving up[ time with an open diff i n tight to mediumtight corners.
In the engine department are you using an electric cooloing fan or the stock fan? The electric fan will remove some of the drag on the motor that the stock one creates. did you switch to an under drive pulley on your crank that also helps with drag. are you running the stock igition? I am using anMSD6AL on the lead plugs only it helps with high rpm spark and power.
Tires and wheels are you using the widest / lights wheel allowed by the rules?
Tires Hoosier makes a better tire than Kumho for solo but you heat cycle the Hoosiers out faster.
Finally have you ever gone to a solo school put on either by your region or a professional Solo school such as Evolotion Driving school. they help alot with make you a better driver no mater what you drive. One More thing to remember is SEAT TIME, SEAT TIME, SEAT TIME!!!!
Have fun and if you have any questions pm me!!!
eprx799 is offline  
Old 05-03-10, 10:07 AM
  #3  
Lives on the Forum

 
Kentetsu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Grand Rapids Michigan
Posts: 11,361
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Hell yeah they can!

https://www.rx7club.com/race-car-tech-103/autocross-can-fb-compete-miatas-863055/

https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...ighlight=miata


www.Re-speed.com will be your best friend ever. Check them out.

I ran 215 tires on stock wheels for a couple of years, but when I switched to 13x8 wheels, the difference was amazing. A lot less deformity of the tread results in a bigger contact patch.

Heavy swaybars, coilovers, camber plates, all make a big difference. Also, the lsd was a huge upgrade (no more spinning the inside wheel on corners).

Check out those threads I posted, and feel free to hit me up if you have any questions.



.
Kentetsu is offline  
Old 05-03-10, 12:27 PM
  #4  
DIRTY RX
10 Year Member
Thread Starter
 
mazdaspeedrex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Omaha, NE
Posts: 368
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I have a complete gsl axle swap so it is lsd with discs. I'm using stock brakes for now. I was planning on upgrading but after the shocks and struts. CSP class is open for wheels and tires I just have to find the money. I was probably going to go with 15's unless a 13x7 or 8 would be lighter.
I did pick up 3.5 seconds between Saturday and Sunday so I know the driver is partly responsible for the poor performance. I knew the basics or what you guys said just needed some extra suggestions. I think I'll do the struts and shocks first and then work on my driving. Both of the Miata drivers are local so I can guage my improvement against them at every event. I'll check out those threads and start my planning. The FB was out of commission for 6 years and I only raced it a little bit before that so I'd still consider myself a newbie. Thanks for the ideas.
mazdaspeedrex is offline  
Old 05-04-10, 12:40 AM
  #5  
Lives on the Forum

 
Kentetsu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Grand Rapids Michigan
Posts: 11,361
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
One of the advantages of staying with 13" wheels is a lower ride height. I run 13x8 Revolutions, and they're very light and strong. Very happy with them.

Also, I run stock brakes using cheap Rockauto discs along with Hawk pads. Excellent braking, no need for an upgrade there. But if you do go with larger wheels, then you loose some braking ability along with it, so then you might need to upgrade.
Kentetsu is offline  
Old 05-04-10, 06:39 AM
  #6  
Senior Member
iTrader: (8)
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Akron area
Posts: 441
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
the 13" wheel/ tire combo has some advantages lighter wheels gives you less rotating mass, so you get better aceleration. you get a lower ride hight which gives you better handling.
eprx799 is offline  
Old 05-04-10, 01:34 PM
  #7  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: San Jose
Posts: 291
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
You are going to have a tough time against the top level Miatas. They are in the 160-170whp range, weigh right at 2000lbs or less, run 275 wide tires, and have a better suspension to begin with. I'd think a full tilt early RX7 could get in the trophies maybe, but doubt it will ever be a winning car again.

-Andy
AMRX7 is offline  
Old 05-04-10, 01:50 PM
  #8  
Lives on the Forum

 
Kentetsu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Grand Rapids Michigan
Posts: 11,361
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Why is it that the people who are not trying to beat Miatas are always the ones that say it can't be done? Way to keep our spirits up buddy.

For the last year, the guy I've been "comparing myself" to, runs a supercharged Miata on 275 Hoosiers. This past year is the first year that I've been able to get my teeth into him, managing to beat him and his co-drivers a few times. And before you say he must not be a good driver, I'll tell you to get stuffed. This guy has his pedigree.

And the most important thing to remember is that I'm still competing against these guys on race rubber, and I'm doing it with $45.00 tires. Just wait until I decide to move up to race rubber myself...

So I still say that it can be done. I haven't proven that it can be done at a National level (yet), but when I'm ready I'm going to give it a shot. Anyway, I guess I'll end my rant now. lol.

To the OP, keep your spirits up man, it can be done!
Kentetsu is offline  
Old 05-04-10, 03:39 PM
  #9  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: San Jose
Posts: 291
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Sorry just giving my opinion based on my autox experience and observations. And my opinion (and it is just that) is that given equal drivers, you are not going to win a National Championship in an RX7 in CSP. Could one get into the trophies? Probably, given enough time and talent. And certainly if you spend the time and effort you could make one a winner at a regional level. But that is true of probably a decent number of cars in CSP given the regional variance in driver talent and car prep.

The OP was just at the Lincoln ProSolo and had to run against Matt McCabe, who just won the National Championship in CSP last year in a Miata. Normally, when a question like this comes up I would say that you could probably do fine locally, but if "locally" means running agains the National Champ, I give my realistic opinion. And that would be to go get a Miata if you want to try to get a National Championship, otherwise prep your RX7 as best you can, have a good time, and try to make the margin as small as possible.

-Andy
AMRX7 is offline  
Old 05-04-10, 08:48 PM
  #10  
Lives on the Forum

 
Kentetsu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Grand Rapids Michigan
Posts: 11,361
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Sorry, didn't have my coffee yet when I posted. Of course, everyone is welcome to share their opinion, whatever it may be.

But one of these days, I'm going to prove you wrong. lol
Kentetsu is offline  
Old 05-04-10, 08:59 PM
  #11  
DIRTY RX
10 Year Member
Thread Starter
 
mazdaspeedrex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Omaha, NE
Posts: 368
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I race against Matt at all of the local solo's so I know what I'm up against. I just would like to get a little closer, if I beat him someday I'll be doing better than I expected. I'm going to work on my driving first and slowly improve the car. I'd love to win at Nationals but I'm not holding my breath. I'm not about to trade my rotary for a boinger. Anyone have a Miata shell for sale?
mazdaspeedrex is offline  
Old 05-05-10, 07:42 AM
  #12  
Senior Member
iTrader: (8)
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Akron area
Posts: 441
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Andy is correct the miata suspension is much more refined then the sa/fb suspension.
I have owned both cars in stock form I had a 99 Miata sport and an 85 GSL-SE and ran them both on Kumho Victoracers back in 2000-2001 the Miata was much easier to drive on the limit and hold it there.
eprx799 is offline  
Old 05-05-10, 01:28 PM
  #13  
Lives on the Forum

 
Kentetsu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Grand Rapids Michigan
Posts: 11,361
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
No doubt that the Miatas are great cars, and have a better suspension design. I'm just saying that I don't think that they are unbeatable.


One of my favorite sayings is, "Anyone can win in a Miata".
Kentetsu is offline  
Old 05-05-10, 08:57 PM
  #14  
DIRTY RX
10 Year Member
Thread Starter
 
mazdaspeedrex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Omaha, NE
Posts: 368
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I'd like to see what Matt could do in my FB. I might ask him to co-drive some event and see what he thinks.
mazdaspeedrex is offline  
Old 05-11-10, 09:12 AM
  #15  
Lives on the Forum

 
Kentetsu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Grand Rapids Michigan
Posts: 11,361
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
I should probably add a bit of a disclaimer to this thread.

I have always rooted for the underdog, not matter what sport or under what conditions. I am not questioning whether or not the Miata (or MR2, or damn near any other car) is more capable than an fb. It would be far easier to start with a car that had a better design. However, being the stubborn *** that I am, the easiest way to get me to try something is to tell me that it can't be done.

If I have offended anybody with my enthusiasm over this question (can an fb compete against Miatas), then you have my sincerest apologies. My love for these little cars sometimes overides my common sense. lol
Kentetsu is offline  
Old 05-11-10, 09:43 PM
  #16  
DIRTY RX
10 Year Member
Thread Starter
 
mazdaspeedrex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Omaha, NE
Posts: 368
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I totally agree. If I just wanted to win I would go buy a Miata. I already have my FB. If I didn't love it, it wouldn't have sat in my garage for 6 years not running. I just wanted to know if I was beating a dead horse. Now I have a plan, albeit a very long term plan, to improve myself and my car. Why didn't anyone tell me it was this expensive before I got hooked?
mazdaspeedrex is offline  
Old 05-12-10, 08:52 AM
  #17  
Lives on the Forum

 
Kentetsu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Grand Rapids Michigan
Posts: 11,361
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Well, if we do all we can possibly do with our cars, and ourselves, to improve them, and then still fail, just think how easy it will seem when we give in and move up to a Miata.
Kentetsu is offline  
Old 05-12-10, 01:18 PM
  #18  
DIRTY RX
10 Year Member
Thread Starter
 
mazdaspeedrex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Omaha, NE
Posts: 368
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
^^What offset are your wheels? I'm looking at some Diamond Racing 13x7 or 8.
mazdaspeedrex is offline  
Old 05-13-10, 10:52 AM
  #19  
Lives on the Forum

 
Kentetsu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Grand Rapids Michigan
Posts: 11,361
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
I think my backspacing is 4", they are the same as my Diamond Racing wheels (which are going up for sale btw). Both the Diamonds and my Revos are 13x8, and have the same backspacing. Since it will be another year or two before I can justify the expense of race rubber, I'll just be racing on the Revolutions that I use full time.

First race of the year was this past weekend. Got the win in CSP both days, but I actually got edged out by an RX8 on Saturday (different class, but this is a first for me). But the course was soaked, and my poor Sumitomos are completely bald. So now I'm shopping for another set, can't drive to work on these much longer. lol.

Here's a video from Saturday, not much for rotaries but a couple shots of the 8 and some incar from me:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-nhM3qijRwE

btw, that green Miata in the screenshot is the supercharged one I'm always fighting with.
Kentetsu is offline  
Old 05-13-10, 10:19 PM
  #20  
DIRTY RX
10 Year Member
Thread Starter
 
mazdaspeedrex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Omaha, NE
Posts: 368
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Let me know when you're ready to sell the wheels. I'm very interested. My next solo is this Sunday, but I don't think the Miata guys will be there. I'll just have to see how close I can get to the fastest time of the day.
mazdaspeedrex is offline  
Old 05-17-10, 04:53 PM
  #21  
Lives on the Forum

 
Kentetsu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Grand Rapids Michigan
Posts: 11,361
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Here's a short, low quality video someone shot of me a couple of weeks ago. The wet course, which was also very dirty, did not go well with my totally bald Sumitomos. It made for a very interesting day. lol.

If you watch closely you'll see me kick up a cone in the last turn. It ended up landing right back where it started so I didn't get any penalty for it. Now that's skill!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xpYdx5NH6DE
Kentetsu is offline  
Old 05-17-10, 11:53 PM
  #22  
Banned. I got OWNED!!!
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: London, Ontario
Posts: 6,122
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Kentetsu View Post
I should probably add a bit of a disclaimer to this thread.

I have always rooted for the underdog, not matter what sport or under what conditions. I am not questioning whether or not the Miata (or MR2, or damn near any other car) is more capable than an fb. It would be far easier to start with a car that had a better design. However, being the stubborn *** that I am, the easiest way to get me to try something is to tell me that it can't be done.

If I have offended anybody with my enthusiasm over this question (can an fb compete against Miatas), then you have my sincerest apologies. My love for these little cars sometimes overides my common sense. lol
You can't drop a jaguar V12 engine in our an FB ... you just can't
dj55b is offline  
Old 05-18-10, 09:01 AM
  #23  
Lives on the Forum

 
Kentetsu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Grand Rapids Michigan
Posts: 11,361
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Well, we'll just see about that won't we!



Um, wait a minute, you're just baiting me now, aren't you.
Kentetsu is offline  
Old 05-19-10, 09:51 AM
  #24  
1308ccs of awesome
iTrader: (9)
 
eage8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Woodbine, MD
Posts: 6,176
Received 10 Likes on 10 Posts
you definitely need more tire.

you have 2 real options, run 13x9s with 255/40/13s or 15x10s with 275/35/15s... (both hoosier A6 sizes) the 13s will probably be a lot easier to fit on the FB which seems to be tire clearance challenged. another benefit of the 13s are they'll give you shorter gearing which is always nice on power challenged cars.

and struts will also definitely help, my corolla turned into a totally different car when I replaced the KYB GR-2s with Koni yellows. As for adjustable or not, the quality of the strut matters much more. bilsteins are much better than AGXs... I don't really know what's available for the FB though
eage8 is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Wicked93gs
2nd Generation Specific (1986-1992)
42
10-07-15 11:58 PM
rxlevi7
New Member RX-7 Technical
4
09-26-15 07:28 AM


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Quick Reply: FB competitive in CSP against Miatas?


Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

© 2019 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands

We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
 
  • Ask a Question
    Get answers from community experts
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: