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autoX SM2 in 2007?

Old 04-12-06, 07:44 PM
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Dan Cernese
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Question autoX SM2 in 2007?

I've resolved that I'm not going to have an easy time of things in SuperStock this season in autocross, so I'm considering how much to invest to possibly play in SM2 next season.

Does anyone have a description of the mods/setups used on some of the 3rd gen in SM2?

I know, I'm not asking for all the answers, but a reference where to start about what makes sense on a '95 to be competitive in SM2 would help point me in the right direction.

Thanks,
Dan
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Old 04-12-06, 08:58 PM
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To put things in perspective, a 3-rotor rx7 won Nationals in SM2.
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Old 04-12-06, 09:38 PM
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Originally Posted by NeoTuri
To put things in perspective, a 3-rotor rx7 won Nationals in SM2.
Don't think so, Andy's car (2005 SM2 Champion) is a 2 rotor, single turbo. Erik has built a 3 Rotor, single turbo to run this year though so you may be predicting the future . He is breaking in the motor now and should show up at the next National event if he can work the bugs out.

As to the question, you might want to look at running ASP. With the new boost rules, I think the RX7 can be in the hunt and is the main reason I parked my Corvette and brought the 7 out of retirement.
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Old 04-13-06, 12:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Chadwick
Don't think so, Andy's car (2005 SM2 Champion) is a 2 rotor, single turbo. Erik has built a 3 Rotor, single turbo to run this year though so you may be predicting the future . He is breaking in the motor now and should show up at the next National event if he can work the bugs out.

As to the question, you might want to look at running ASP. With the new boost rules, I think the RX7 can be in the hunt and is the main reason I parked my Corvette and brought the 7 out of retirement.
I stand corrected, but the point remains, prepare to spend some cash to be competitive in SM2.
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Old 04-13-06, 08:51 AM
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Sorry to hijack - but what exactly are these "new boost rules"?

A URL would be fine.


-b
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Old 04-13-06, 10:21 AM
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Cool hijack away!

Originally Posted by wrankin
Sorry to hijack - but what exactly are these "new boost rules"?

A URL would be fine.

-b
If ASP is a more reasonable target (given insane competition coming in SM2), then maybe I should reconsider..
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Old 04-13-06, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by wrankin
Sorry to hijack - but what exactly are these "new boost rules"?

A URL would be fine.


-b

Turbochargers and/or superchargers (ďforced inductionĒ) may not be added, changed, or modified. On vehicles originally equipped with forced induction:

a) No hardware changes or alterations to turbocharger(s) or supercharger(s), in size or number, are permitted. Turbochargers or superchargers may be updated/backdated only in conjunction with the accompanying complete engine unit.

b) No changes are allowed to waste gate(s) size, number, or location. No changes are allowed to variable-geometryturbine (VGT) hardware.

c) No changes are allowed to supercharger drive system pulleys. Belt tensioners may be added/changed to reduce belt slip.

d) No changes are permitted to blow-off/pop-off valves.

e) Compressor bypass valves (CBVs) may be updated/backdated independently of the other components of a forced induction system.

f) Boost regulation systems, either electronic or mechanical, and electronic fuel cuts referencing boost pressure may be altered or modified except as prohibited herein. Boost pressure changes resulting from authorized changes are permitted.
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Old 04-13-06, 11:08 AM
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Most definately try out ASP first. You may even want to wait a couple of years also to see how classing goes in the ST classes. I am paitiently waiting to see if they create a STU2 class here in the next couple years before I remove all the rest of the emissions equipment. I think the RX-7 would have a very good chance if they limit tire width.
SM2 class is only going to get faster as more cars are developed.
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Old 04-13-06, 11:25 AM
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so you can run the stock twin seq at 14-15psi in ASP...don't think that would be reliable or as fun as a small BB single in SM2.
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Old 04-13-06, 11:50 AM
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The new boost rules are total crap, IMHO. For SS it's not a huge deal- the RX7 needed help to compete with the C5 Z06's and C6's. However, for the other classes and the idea in general to total BS.
So a turbocharged car can now, with the aid of a boost controller, add 25-50% more power, while the N/A guys are stuck sucking wind? Give me a break. I'm sure the Miata guys are REAL happy about that in CSP. Look- an MSM... With TWICE the power. And he's in my class! Same friggin' car, even!
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Old 04-13-06, 12:14 PM
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MSM's are now in BSP, so there's no competition between them and the other Miatas.
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Old 04-13-06, 01:01 PM
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These are "SP" boost rules, right?

Originally Posted by Chadwick
f) Boost regulation systems, either electronic or mechanical, and electronic fuel cuts referencing boost pressure may be altered or modified except as prohibited herein. Boost pressure changes resulting from authorized changes are permitted.
This is for the street prepared classes, right? (i.e. not stock or street touring)
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Old 04-13-06, 01:52 PM
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That's right those would be the SP rules. In SM you can add, subtract, substitute or modify the forced induction system pretty much without restriction.
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Old 04-13-06, 03:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Black91n/a
MSM's are now in BSP, so there's no competition between them and the other Miatas.
Ohh, good call. I forgot they changed in for 2006.

Of course, I think my assessment is still valid.
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Old 04-13-06, 03:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Umrswimr
The new boost rules are total crap, IMHO. For SS it's not a huge deal- the RX7 needed help to compete with the C5 Z06's and C6's. However, for the other classes and the idea in general to total BS.
So a turbocharged car can now, with the aid of a boost controller, add 25-50% more power, while the N/A guys are stuck sucking wind? Give me a break. I'm sure the Miata guys are REAL happy about that in CSP. Look- an MSM... With TWICE the power. And he's in my class! Same friggin' car, even!
Hmm, for years there has been no way to police the boost rules on the books. They finally got smart and re-wrote the rules in a way that they can be policed. It will take a year or two for the classing to be sorted out, but in the long run it was a good move.

In my 3 years of running ASP before I bought a Corvette, I never ran across an RX7 in ASP that was legal. For most when it came to what computer they had, it was a donít ask, donít tell situation. There is not a re-flashed or aftermarket replacement computer sold that complied with the old ASP rules. I found a work around, but for those 3 years I took a big risk of blowing my motor anytime I had to go past 2nd gear. I also had to give up a lot of potential power because of not being able to control timing and fuel.
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Old 04-17-06, 09:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Chadwick
In my 3 years of running ASP before I bought a Corvette, I never ran across an RX7 in ASP that was legal.
Yep. All the rule change did was make all the turbo cars already in SP legal. This rule change was a necessity because the old boost rules couldn't be policed or enforced. Even if controls were inspected, with modern electronic systems it's a simple case of flipping a switch to change settings.

As for umrswimr's concern of a turbo charged car's advantage in SP that is fixed by reclassing some turbo cars. Also realize most of these turbo cars were already illegal. I don't think you'll see the turbo cars suddenly go faster, they'll just be within the rules now.

Originally Posted by Chadwick
I found a work around, but for those 3 years I took a big risk of blowing my motor anytime I had to go past 2nd gear.
My motor is all stock other than exhaust and I still had to install a needle valve to get the boost down. Even a different pill is illegal (though easy to hide) so I just went simple and installed the needle valve. I'd rather be protested and lose (rightly so) than have to constantly be concerned with killing the motor. No way in hell FD ASP cars with intake, exhaust and intercooler were (are) running the stock ecu with stock boost control (I'm sure there are some exceptions such as Chadwick but if he did it the way I think I'd be scared!).
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Old 04-17-06, 10:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Chadwick
In my 3 years of running ASP before I bought a Corvette, I never ran across an RX7 in ASP that was legal. For most when it came to what computer they had, it was a donít ask, donít tell situation.

So true, when I bought my car it had a PFS PMS Purple engine control so I just set it at the stock 10 lbs. of boost and ran in ASP. I told all I competed with about it and no one cared. Last year I decided to race in bigger events and go to Nationals so I changed to SM2. I won the points for class in Detroit Region but was a back marker at Nationals. It was better for me in my mind to be legal for that class rather than be upper mid pack in ASP (actully, wished I had run in ASP at Nationals because I love racing in the rain and think I would have done well in Thursday's downpour).
This year there is no thought about it because of the new rules if I bring the FD out.
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