3isacharm

ok, since some of you think that i need to contribute to this section as well, here goes nothin. this season i want to become very involved with the local autox and i've been trying to decide on a car. i know it's going to be an rx7, but i'm not sure. keep in mind this car has to be streetable. ok, i'm stuck between a TII (i absolutely love these cars), a fb with a 13bturbo motor swap (would be quick and cheap), or put boltons onto an n/a and build the **** outta the suspension (this will be a long way off so i'll eventually work up to the final product after having enough experience to make use of these parts). i guess i'm just in need of some input and anything you guys could add would be greatly appreciated.
Brian

Cwaters

Better make your decision quick man. The first points event is Sunday!

Cory

redrotorR1

You're looking at fairly stiff competition if you plan on running either of those cars. The TII puts you in BS. This is highly unfair as you're underpowered, and at a severe disadvantage in chassis design in terms of years. BS has been dominated by S2000's for the last couple of years. This year, the E36 M3's, pre-'00 M cars (Roadsters and Coupes), and the Boxster got bumped down into BS. You'll probably also see more 350Z's out this year in BS. It will be tough to be competitive in that class in a TII. Once again, it's the SCCA selectively penalizing certain turbo cars. (How the WRX stays in DS is beyond me ...)

Engine swaps throws you directly into Mod classes. EXTREMELY tough for you compete in with a stock chassis. Most Mod cars are open-wheel racers that will be at least 700 lbs lighter than your FB + 13B-T engine. Not ot mention that once you get into Street Prepared and beyond categories, the $$$ requirements grow exponentially.

My suggestion would be to find a nice, fully setup, stock FB or FC (non-turbo) and run in ES. ES is nationally dominated by the non-turbo MR2's, but you can be competitive with a NA RX-7 in ES. And this way, you're on a level playing field.

3isacharm

hehe, i'm not going to race this sunday, this will probably come to fruition towards summer. i need to find out where i'm going to school next year before i go off and buy a car. i'm taking my neon to the novice school saturday but if i can't race it anymore, it can't handle the stress.

as far as the fb, i've heard bad things about their rear suspension and don't think i'm going that route. it looked appealing because they are easy to find cheap.

yeah, the bmw's and s2000's have been steering me away from a tii, they'll eat me alive. i've been running the n/a idea through my head and like it. if sometime in the far off future the lack of power is too detrimental, then i'll swap a turbo motor and make it a full race car.

ShortBusRiot

What class is a FD in and would having a street ported motor change classing?

3isacharm

yes, any type of porting would throw you to the wolves, i think either prepared or modified. i can't remember which class it runs in stock, and the website is down. someone here will know.

redrotorR1

FD3S = SS .... otherwise known as Z06 territory.
Bolt-on FD3S = ASP .... otherwise known as Z06 territory.
Bolt-on FD3S w/ boost control = SM2 .... otherwise known as Corvette Territory
Prepped FD3S = AP .... otherwise known as Corvette Territory.
Ported-motor FD3S = Modified (BM?) .... otherwise known as open-wheel racer territory.

Notice a trend here? J/K. Don't be too alarmed though. A 3rd gen RX-7 won Nationals in ASP a couple of years ago .... so it can be done.

3isacharm

yeah, the Z06 has a bit of an advantage to a stock rx7. oh well, if it was easy it wouldn't be worth it.

Mr. ImportGuy

The fb isn't bad. Sure it's not independent supension in the rear. But they still handle very well.

3isacharm

in relation to a fc?

Chronos

How can a Z06 be better than a modded FD? It has less power/weight capability, it has more mass cornering, and it can't acheive as high of a skidpad around a road racing course I don't think...the FD can pull something like 1.2G, anyone know what the Z06 can do?(btw, I'm not talking g load under acceleration only)

Do any of you guys know WHY the corvette dominates against the FD in autoX and road racing circuits such as the speed challenge??? (not to mention a MASSIVE difference in budget when it comes to the speed challenge). Simple. Handicaps. I think the FD is the most handicapped car of that entire series. Reason? How many corvettes would we sell if we were constantly portraying them getting there asses handed to them by better engineered cars?! I think the corvettes only true attribute over the FD is it's more reliable. And please lets not even think about what would happen if Mazda actually entered the racing picture again (it was banned btw after dominating Le Mans in 1991)...you guys ever hear of 3spark N/A rotaries? check out the 787B's 26B 3 spark 4rotor which produces 700hp @ 2.6 Liters.

Ok, I've strayed way out of topic as I always do when it comes to professional racing and the rotary...

Edit: If any of you are interested in autocrossing your FD you should PM Spank. He feels we can dominate ASP and SM2 and will be more than glad to help you out with suggestions and tips. Good luck to all you guys!

3isacharm

I was comparing them stock for stock. once you start modding either one of them it's a different story, I believe that entirely depends on who's toying with the car.

redrotorR1

Auto-x? Simple. Torque. How many non-single turbo'd RX-7's do you see making 400 ft-lbs of torque? And not to fault your thinking, but have you ever ridden in a Z06 with a capable rider? I've ridden with Erik Strelnieks (2002 SS Nat'l Champ) .... the Z06 with a capable driver is a monster. It's also got a chassis that's almost 10 years ahead of the RX-7. Variable-rate steering ... I could go on and on. It's got everything put together into one package. True, on circuit racing challenges, the RX-7 is severely handicapped. That's all about sponsorship from the manufacturer. Mazda is not backing any pro-series raced RX-7's. When Cam Worth has to race an RX-7 on a small budget vs factory-backed Porsches, Bimmers, and Corvettes, it becomes impossible. But on auto-x courses, it's hard to argue against the numbers.

I hope Spank is right about SM2. We've gone on at length about ASP. You will get protested somewhere ... and eventually someone will find something to DQ you with. I've talked with our local SEB rep to see if a rule change could be implemented (for either moving to AS or for removing the boost control issue from SP). He's doubtful, and he sees the Street Prepared classes dwindling down ... he predicts that people will move into the Street Touring and Street Modified classes. That's where all the competition is. Ok, very off topic. I'll shut up now.

Chronos

yeah, I'm sure the Z06 would definately dominate any stock FD, even the Spirit R on either autoX or road racing with so much more power/weight ratio...my issue is with heavily modified FD's vs heavily modified corvettes.

ShortBusRiot

which do you think would be a better auto-x car with some street driving responsibilities having a budget of 20k? RX-7 OR MR-2

ShortBusRiot

edit didnt work so btw i had in mind the 3rd gen RX-7 and about a 1993 MR-2

3isacharm

assuming you want a turbo mr2. i think they're both good cars for autox, light, nimble, rwd, very well balanced. both respond well to simple mods that will allow you to stay in stock class, but the rx7 will still be underpowered compared to the corvettes (i think the mr2 turbo will run with some fast cars too, but i can't remember which ones. i think it's with the TII's, and E36 M3's, which are difficult to beat, but i'm not sure). i'd say look at as many event results as you can and see where each car placed in their respective classes.

OptimusPrime

iTrader: (1)

ill be running a N/A FC in autoX

3isacharm

i've pretty much decided on a n/a->turbo swap and i'm just going nuts on it. i'm gonna make it a fun car to have, in every way possible.

88fc3sw/HX83

Guys, I'm an idiot! What's an "fb"?

3isacharm

it's the first incarnation of the rx7. built from 1978 to 1985

88fc3sw/HX83

Do you know why the TurboII is also know as an FC? It's because of the Vin#. What does the 1st gen Vin# start with? I bet its something like SA.

Cheers!

hey! its the challenge that makes the competition that much more satisfying...

i hope to be running my s5tii this summer in autocross