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6pt harness -> 5pt?

Old 11-16-07, 10:57 AM
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6pt harness -> 5pt?

Sometime over the summer I purchased a pair of G-Force 6 pt camlock harnesses for use with my stock FD seats. Now I've got racing seats to install which have a slot designed for a single anti-sub belt so I don't think it'll be a good idea to use the 6pts with them. Apparently G-Force doesn't sell just a replacement anti-sub belt so I can't just make them into 5 points. Any suggestions short of selling my basically brand new 6pts (used for 2 hpde events) at a big loss in order to buy a new set? The metal buckle on the 6pt anti-sub belt is wider than the 5pt, so I can't just cut one set of webbing off of it and call it converted.
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Old 11-16-07, 11:29 AM
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How were you running the sub belts on your factory seat?

I've run dual sub belts through a single seat hole. Passed SCCA annual tech a few times, and I've seen it done that way on several other racecars as well. I anchored the belts to the seat mount anchor bolts.
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Old 11-16-07, 11:43 AM
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Originally Posted by DigDug View Post
How were you running the sub belts on your factory seat?

I've run dual sub belts through a single seat hole. Passed SCCA annual tech a few times, and I've seen it done that way on several other racecars as well. I anchored the belts to the seat mount anchor bolts.

Very uncomfortably... Up through the slot between the seatback and seat cushion, sit down on the belt, then pull it up between your legs. As you can see it didn't take long for me to ditch the stock seats after trying this a few times.

Hrm, I guess I could try using what I've got first like you said and see how it works.
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Old 11-16-07, 11:45 AM
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I ran 6 pts. w/ a stock seat one. Once. It was awful, and not much better w/ a race seat. They're horribly uncomfortable, I don't know how anyone uses them.

G-Force are losers for not selling the single sub belt. I just sold the 6 pt. set, and then never bothered to replace it. Been running my stock belts w/ CG Lock w/ my EVO since then.
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Old 11-16-07, 02:28 PM
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Yeah I could see that being uncomfortable with the stock seat. Running them both through the sub belt hole in a race seat isn't that bad. I find the metal buckle/tab is the most uncomfortable part with the dual subs, at least with the Simpson harnesses.
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Old 11-16-07, 03:48 PM
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six point shouldn't be super uncomfortable..if they are then you have done some very wrong with your mounting, also this could end up being a danger if they are being pulled in the wrong way. the sub belts should be mounted just behind the crotch and spread should be around 2-4" side to side where they come through the seat. you may need to oval out the whole in the seat. remember also that the sub should not be super tight when your all cinched down...if it is when you tighten down your shoulders than you need to tighten the laps, reposition they're mounting or lengthen the subs.
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Old 11-16-07, 03:49 PM
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Umm....unless seats are vastly different in the US, 5 and 6 point belts go through the single slot at the base of the squab. Running the belts between the base of the seat and back is verging on pointless imo and mounting the belts and seats off a common point would result in a scrutineering failure over here if spotted.

An advantage of 6 points in a big one is bruising only on the inner thighs rather than the less appealing alternative.

If you search the FIA site, probably under 8853/98, should be more than enough info on proper mounting.
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Old 11-16-07, 08:23 PM
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mount the submarine belts to the same anchor point as the lap belts, pass thru the seat in the same port as the lap belt, then sit on the submarine belts and you are god to go, this will keep the belts separated on each side of your crotch so they are reasonably comfortable.....
you want the sub belts anchored behind your hips so they can keep your crotch from sliding forward, the lap belt keeps your hips down, the shoulder belts keep your torso back. I never understood the placement of the slot in the front of an upright seat, a belt thru there only kept the buckle from riding up, it did not hold your crotch back in the seat ...
chuck
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Old 11-17-07, 06:09 PM
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Originally Posted by billyboy View Post
mounting the belts and seats off a common point would result in a scrutineering failure over here if spotted.

That is obviously also true here with SCCA, but the mount points of sub belts sometimes get overlooked as long as the lap and shoulder belts are mounted correctly. Especially with a low-mounted seat that is difficult for the inspector to see under. I originally used the seat mount bolts as a temporary solution but never got around to making dedicated mounts.
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Old 11-17-07, 06:17 PM
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Originally Posted by ccanepa50 View Post
mount the submarine belts to the same anchor point as the lap belts, pass thru the seat in the same port as the lap belt, then sit on the submarine belts and you are god to go, this will keep the belts separated on each side of your crotch so they are reasonably comfortable.....

This is how the formula car-style belts work, but will that routing pass tech? It's been a while since I read the GCR on restraints.
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Old 11-17-07, 09:21 PM
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Originally Posted by DigDug View Post
This is how the formula car-style belts work, but will that routing pass tech? It's been a while since I read the GCR on restraints.
It's my understanding that this is how 6 point subs are supposed to be mounted. From what I've read, the advantage of a 6pt. is that the tension in the belt is directed opposite of the force in a crash; vs. roughly 90* in a 5pt.

With all of that said, I still run a 5pt.
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Old 11-17-07, 11:36 PM
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2007 SCCA GCR sec 9.3.18 F......it is also permissible for the leg straps to be secured at a point common to the seat belt attachment to the structure, passing under the driver and up between his or her legs to the seat belt release.......
section 9.3.18 G also says the same thing then goes on about mounting bolts.......
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Old 11-18-07, 01:05 AM
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They essentially perform a different function in those configurations though, the 6 points are to restrain you from sliding forward, the 5 points are to keep the lap belt from riding up into your gut when you tighten the shoulders. The 6 points done that way can help keep the lap belt down, but that's not the best way to do that.

In formula cars the new standard is a 7 point system which uses the sub belts from both systems.
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Old 11-18-07, 12:06 PM
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Originally Posted by ccanepa50 View Post
2007 SCCA GCR sec 9.3.18 F......it is also permissible for the leg straps to be secured at a point common to the seat belt attachment to the structure, passing under the driver and up between his or her legs to the seat belt release.......
section 9.3.18 G also says the same thing then goes on about mounting bolts.......

Thanks for the info. This prompted me to re-read the harness section 9.3.18 of the GCR. In fact, I don't see any mention of not being allowed to anchor sub belts to seat mount bolts.
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Old 11-18-07, 05:05 PM
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Thanks for the help guys. I mounted my 6pts with the new seat and it seems to be just fine.
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