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1st gen auto-x setup?

Old 12-14-05, 09:55 AM
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1st gen auto-x setup?

Hey guys, as some of you may know I just picked up an 85 GSL RX7 for free (big smile). I was just wondering how you guys think I should set up the suspension. The car will be for auto-x only (Im pretty sure I dont want to ensure it and all that jazz).

First off EVERYONE has already told me to get the GSL-SE brake/hub/wheel setup for better brakes and more common wheels. That and sphereical suspension bearings (I think thats the proper term)

But here is the tricky part. What springs (or what spring rates) should I use? Shocks? Front swaybar? Possibly rear (if the front goes bigger keep the rear to balence?), alignment adjusters (camber/caster plates, camber bolts), strut bars (needed for 1st gen?).

If you would like to post tips, sugestions, or a list of what you think it should be then I would appriciate it.

And yes money is an issue... Im not broke but I dont have money to be buying the $$$$ stuff... and this is a project so if I have to save a few paychecks for somthing no-prob.
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Old 12-14-05, 10:11 AM
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WORD>>>>
http://www.gforceengineering.net/index.html

Buy the manual it will save you from buying worthless go fast items.
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Old 12-14-05, 11:00 AM
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im not going to spend $75 on a book when experinced racers can offer advice. Im talking right now with the Clemson Sports Car Club. They have raced 1st gens before and currently own a 1st gen club car that is race spec. I was looking for more opinons though.
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Old 12-14-05, 11:31 AM
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I am not an ***. I am just stating that of the three things you kind of ask about at least 2 have been talked about in the last few months, weeks and days.

Do some searching on this forum. If you have specific questions come back and ask away.

As far as the overall setup is concerned if you spend the $75 on the "Book" you get all of the technical support you could ever dream of. Jim backs up the purchase of the book with great support on specific issues if you have questions.

The next question to ask is what class you are looking to compete in. I would assume CSP but you may want to go a step further than that. It may make a big difference how you attack the modifications.
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Old 12-14-05, 12:23 PM
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What sort of budget? Nobody can give you an idea until we know your financial limit
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Old 12-14-05, 03:07 PM
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well budget is dynamic.. if i have to save for it then so be it but right now i plan on spending maybe 600 for starters.
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Old 12-14-05, 08:21 PM
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What is your planned use for the vehicle? That will drive most everything else. That and your budget.

As noted above, if you are going to autocross it, find out the rules for the class you are going to run so you know the constraints you need to operate within.
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Old 12-14-05, 09:01 PM
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If you swap over to a gsl-se suspension, not only are you gonna have to raplace your wheels, but it will bump you into a mod class.
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Old 12-14-05, 10:42 PM
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I am only familer with NASA's classing system. CSP is what I've been told I need to race by some But I cant find a good list of rules for CSP. The SCCA website is confusing and seems geared for pros.

From what some have told me if I plan on only auto-x and not track then I dont need the GSL-SE suspension in which the biggest benifit is bigger brakes (vented rears).

Really what spring rate should I use in the front/rear and where can I get them. Clemson's club car runs, if I remember correctly, 250 fronts and cut stockers in the rear.

Some people say dont use the rear sway bar. Would I still need to upgrade the front, or would I benifit from a bigger front bar. If I went bigger in the front would I need the stocker or even an aftermarket in the rear for balance? RB sells a set that includes a rear adjustable bar. Would that be good set for auto-x?
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Old 12-14-05, 11:30 PM
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Buy the book from Gforce and it will tell you the right spring rates.
Just think, if you buy the spings right the first time (becuase you looked in jim's book) you will end up saving money. It really worth the money.
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Old 12-14-05, 11:35 PM
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ok, before you go csp, realize that csp is extremely competitive because of pesky (and extremely fast) miatas, and some mr2s. Having said that, gforceengineering's book is a good idea (it's on my list of to gets). I'm still dialing in my car at this point (you can see my sig for mods), but i think 250 is way too soft. I'm running 375 fronts and 175 rears and it's still a bit on the soft side. We (my codriver and I) are considering bigger front bar next, a strut tower bar, and increasing camber a bit more (currently at 2 degree), the complication is that this is also my daily driver. I'd almost consider getting a mazda comp setup, which includes ground control coilovers, camber plates, springs and shocks, though it's definitly pricey.
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Old 12-15-05, 06:37 AM
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It also depends on the level you want to compete at. For local events and just having fun, spend your money on making sure the car is in top shape (bushings, brakes, engine, etc.), maybe do shocks, springs, and a front sway bar, buy used R compound tires where you can, and spend your energy on running as many events as possible to hone your skills, learn the competition and class, and go from there.

As far as I know, the last 1st gen that did really well in Solo II at a national level was Wendell Karr-Ake's. I never saw the car but understand it was pretty highly developed (read: High Dollar).

The SCCA 2006 Solo II Rules are at:

http://www.scca.org/Solo/Index.asp?IdS=00AF31-369C740&x=050|070&~=

If the link doesn't work, go to www.scca.org, click on the left "Solo", it will switch pages, and then click on "Cars and Rules".

By the way, spend the $75 to buy the book so you understand what your dealing with. Jim has been racing and autocrossing these cars for a long time, and knows both the rules and the car.

You can ask for opinions here all day long and will certainly get them. However, there are no clear cut answers, and you are own your own as far as judging who is an authoritative source vs. who is a flake. Jim knows his stuff, and stands behind what he sells. I have known Jim for almost 20 years and raced with him, and he is a good one.
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Old 12-15-05, 08:54 AM
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Starting point is class, then get the best tires for the class, then work up your suspension improvements to that level.

Here's a new site for FB suspension it is what Zyrano and I both run, great value when compared to what's out there.

www.racersareme.com
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Old 12-15-05, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by 31rx7
As far as I know, the last 1st gen that did really well in Solo II at a national level was Wendell Karr-Ake's.
If I am thinking of the right car that is a G-Foce Engineering car...as it has the tri-link and panhard as well as the techinical support that went with those purchases.

It was for sale just a few months ago I think.
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Old 12-15-05, 11:43 AM
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You wont buy much from G Force for $600. It's great equipment but forget it with a $600 budget.
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Old 12-15-05, 03:44 PM
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Originally Posted by aussiesmg
You wont buy much from G Force for $600. It's great equipment but forget it with a $600 budget.
Actually it does get you the Panhard and tri-link...this is the most beneficial thing that G-Force sells and just about the only proprietary stuff that is available and legal for CSP.
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Old 12-15-05, 06:07 PM
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I have an 84 GLS-SE setup for CSP class. My current setup is:
-GForce Panhard and Tri-link
-RB front sway bar
-GC front coil-over kit with 400lb Eibach springs
-Mazdatrix Camber plates
-Tokico adjustables on all four corners. Full stiff up front and one click from full soft in back.
-ISC 275lb rear springs with seat adjusters
-No rear swaybar
-No rear upper control arms
-SS brake lines & Carbotech pads
-13 x 8Ē Diamond Racing wheels with 4.5Ē backspacing.
-225 Hoosier A3SO4ís

I'm sure I forgot something but that's about it. As for the motor
-K&N filter
-RB race header and center section
-6Ē round Dynomax muffler.

Hope this helps? Iíve only had 4 auto-x events with it so Iím still trying to get it dialed in. Oh yeah... buy the GForce book itís well worth the 75 bucks even if you do have experienced drivers to speak with.
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Old 12-15-05, 10:03 PM
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Originally Posted by RotaryAXer
If I am thinking of the right car that is a G-Foce Engineering car...as it has the tri-link and panhard as well as the techinical support that went with those purchases.

It was for sale just a few months ago I think.
Actually it's been almost a year since it was sold. http://www.cardomain.com/ride/336427/9 Yes all the G-Force Engineering stuff on it.
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Old 12-15-05, 10:57 PM
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OK... buying the book for sure... Still cant find CSP rules spelled out in plain english... just a bunch of refferals back to other rules and modifcations... just hard to read... not that I havent found it on the SCCA web page but its all so confusing.

Thanks for the help guys I apriciate it. BTW 600 is what Im spending to get started (this and next month)... not to completly set up the car...
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Old 12-16-05, 08:44 AM
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There are a number of us here that auto-x and run in CSP, what specifically do you find confusing? Suspension wise CSP is fairly wide open. You can use whatever shocks, springs & swaybar you like as long as the mounting points are in the stock locations. You can install camber plates and strut tower braces but you canít use turn-in spacers (see GForce web site if you donít now what these are). You can use any size wheel and any tire as long as itís not a slick. Motor wise, exhaust and intake are pretty much free for you to do what you want and you can remove all the emissions crap, but internal engine mods are a no no as is adding any type of forced induction. There are some other things but thatís the jist of it.
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Old 12-16-05, 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by slowautoxr
Actually it's been almost a year since it was sold. http://www.cardomain.com/ride/336427/9 Yes all the G-Force Engineering stuff on it.

So are you the happy new owner?
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Old 12-16-05, 12:51 PM
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Yes. I was getting to the point where my black/white RX-7 needed some surgery (tri-link and panhard rod) that would eliminated it's daily driver duty when this car became available. We talked initially about a 1.5-2 years ago when I was looking for information about fast 1st gens. Wendell is a super nice guy. We eventually worked out a deal that allowed me to add another RX-7 to my fleet.

I wish Wendell's driving skills came with the car........
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