mikejenkins

Okay... One last question and then I think I've exhausted all the possiblities... Which of the two harnesses should I have the Boost control kit solenoid plugged into? The one with the white mark (on the drivers side) or the one without the white mark (passenger side one?) And do I leave the one that the boost control kit isn't plugged into plugged in to the stock harness or should I leave the other harness totally unplugged? Or does it matter? Again... Thank you for all your help... I hope it is running correctly soon...
Mike

mikejenkins

Oh... No I haven't tried it without the boost control kit... Installed both at the same time... I'm going to try capping everything down there first and then try going without the boost control kit installed! All I'm curious about now is the harness questions I just posted! Thanks again!
Mike
904 234 3008

Tim Benton

iTrader: (1)

Mike,

I've looked at the S-avcr pdf manual as far as the hoses are concerned. The second set of pics better cooresponds to the manual in so far as the hose routing to the precontrol and wastegate actuators. Start with the second set of pics....cap both nipples on the actuators that point toward the driver side engine bay. Also cap the hardlines that they used to run to. Still reading the pdf so I'll post again shortly

Tim

Tim Benton

iTrader: (1)

did you unplug the factory solenoids, underneath the UIM and also cap those lines? I'm not familar with the set up, what does it use for the pressure sensor? the stock map sensor reading? If so, are you asking what solenoid harness to plug (electrical connector) it into (under the UIM)?

Tim

Tim Benton

iTrader: (1)

also, under the PIM voltage settings on the commander, are you using the Normal setting or option 1?

Tim

Tim Benton

iTrader: (1)

also according to the PFC manual, using the boost control kit, you only needs to worry about the primary setting when in the boost setting screen. The secondary isn't used (for both 1 and 2 settings).

Tim

Power_Put

the boost control kit doesn't work on seq turbos on non seq turbos or single turbos i m not shure about the two soloniods visible under the inlet but i think you need to go non seq then use the harness wire thats on the turbo side ok. then unpluge the other soloniod and cap two vacume lines then set up the big apexi soloniod just like the Avc-r diagrame Then try it and let us know what happens ok

Tim Benton

iTrader: (1)

Mike,
This is from an old, old thread from Chuck at Rotary Extreme talking about how to connect everything up for the kit.

installing it is very easy. First disconnect the negative side of the battery. Take off the stock map sensor. Put on the new map sensor. Your package should come with a small wire. You hood that wire up to the Power FC main unit. There is a white slot right next to the commander slot. Plug that wire in there and plug the other side to the stock map sensor that you just took off. Take off the black boost reservoir right behind the alternator so you can see the solenoids. There are two solenoids there which are attached to each other. disconnect the wiring on the right one (facing the car). The right one has a white dot on the connector. Hook that wire connector up to your new boost solenoid. If you want to hook it up to a single turbo, look at apex-i website under document. Find the instructions for the AVC-R. The boost solenoid you got is the same one as the AVC-R so use the AVC-R instruction to hook the hoses to your wastegate. After you install all those, connect your battery. Turn on the Ignition but do not start your car yet. Go to the commander to change the boost settings. the boost menu comes with two boost levels. If you are using the boost control kit, you are only using the primary boost setting. So set your boost setting there. Go to the ETC menu and go to functions. Disable sequetial turbo function. Go to Map sensor menu and choose option 1 instead of normal. That's it. Good luck. Where did you get yours? I confirmed with XS Engineering that it's discontinued.

Chuck

Power_Put

u just can't switch to non seq like that you need to do the non seq mod to the turbos !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Power_Put

can you link the thread you stated about chuck

mikejenkins

Power Put:
Stop being so mysterious... What are you talking about... If you have something to help then post your help (IE... "you need to do the non sequential mod".... Well, Power Put... How do you do that with stock twins? If you know then tell us...) Otherwise, shush and let us figure it out by ourselves... Also, I don't think Tim needs to hear that "He could link the thread"... He already has over 2000 post to your 45... He probably already knows that... He's posting things the way he is because I'm the dumbass that couldn't figure out how to find the info I needed elsewhere.

Tim,
Okay, Yes it comes with it's own MAP sensor I have it plugged in just like Chuck said... I'm going to cap the nipples we talked about today and make sure that the white-slip-marked harness is plugged into the boost kit's solenoid. I'm also going to make sure that the other (non-white-slip-marked) solenoid is plugged into it's original harness... if that doesn't work I'm going to unplug the non-slip-marked solenoid and see if that works... If not... I'm taking the boost control kit out completely setting everything up as stock except for the power fc and the commander and seeing if that works at all!

I got the boost control kit from a vendor in Japan and I've also been running Option 1 with the boost control kit in.

I'll get back to you with results... If it works I'll post everything I've learned in one concise post under the instructions page.

I'm not familiar with the term UIM... If you mean the black surge tank then I on top of the engine then I know what you are talking about. In fact... rereading your post regarding the UIM and thinking about it again... I'm sure I don't know... please tell me what the UIM is so I can find it... I will try to cap those lines too while I'm at it!

Thanks for all your help.

Mike

jeff48

UIM= Upper Intake Manifold

Power_Put

sorry my english is not that good. but the japanese manual has a picture and it looks like that their is two soloniods under the UIM and the Apexi boost soloniod plugs in the left one, facing the car! and good luck and sorry for trying to help

mikejenkins

Okay... capped the other nipples and also capped where the lines I capped went to. Plugged the White slipped marked harness in and replugged the other harness as it was originally... still the same... 3 pounds of boost max... Totally confused... Any last thoughts before I go back to setting it up stock as far as the plumbing is concerned?
Mike

Tim Benton

iTrader: (1)

umm, damn, that sucks. I was hoping for a miracle leave the stock harness for the precontrol solenoid unplugged and have the boost control kit plugged into the wastegate solenoid harness.

If you go back to the stock setup and the pfc controls boost...I'd sell the boost control kit unless you think you'll be running more than 17 psi in the future.
Sorry we haven't figured this thing out.

Tim

mikejenkins

I think I have a POWER FC ECU that doesn't control boost! I'll try unplugging the pre-control harness and then I'm going back to stock... If it doesn't work then... it must be the POWER FC ECU itself I'm thinking... Any thoughts on that?

Tim Benton

iTrader: (1)

It's possible I guess. Even though I've looked at the avcr manual on the site and read Chuck's post, I still think the setup (it just controls the wastegate acutator and not the precontrol actuator like in you first set of pics) would work. That is the way manual boost controls are hooked up... one for each actuator.

Tim

DaleClark

iTrader: (55)

Mike -

Just had an inspiration. You mentioned that when you first put in your PowerFC you had a boost spike to like 16 psi or something. I bet you a nickel that you've got a big boost leak somewhere - a split intercooler hose, something.

There's simply no way for the boost control system to be functioning SO poorly that you only get 3 psi of boost. It's gotta be a boost leak.

If nothing else, when you get to Pensacola next month we'll pressure test the system and pinpoint the leak.

Dale

mikejenkins

Dale,
Checked all that hosing stuff... It looks to me like everything is tighter than tight under there... Before I put the POWER FC (with the stock ECU and free flowing exhaust) I got the 16 PSI Boost... After POWER FC went in... consistent 3 PSI in every single plumbing/harness swapping configuation I've tried so far (Probably about 30 all together to date).
Thanks though... I'll keep tinkering!
Mike

DaleClark

iTrader: (55)

I think the only way you'll find the boost leak is with a pressure test. The pipes going to and from the intercooler can split on the seam - visually they look fine, but they vent boost like crazy.

Seriously I wouldn't try messing with the boost control until you know for 100% sure that you don't have a boost leak - I really can't think of any way for the boost control system to give you boost *that* low without leaking boost somewhere. Since you've said you can hear a "wooshing" noise under boost, that confirms my suspicions further.

Dale

Tim Benton

iTrader: (1)

Dale, it could be venting boost with the precontrol wastegate. Whether its programmer error, hooked up wrong, etc, it's venting alot of boost to only get 3 psi. A badly split hose, you can still get 6 or 7 psi and one that only lets you get 3 is something you would be able to find sqeezing the hose couplings.
undo the hoses for the boost control kit, hook up the stock set up, set it on normal (not option 1) and see what it does. As much as you've been doing it lately, your a pro at it and will take you 30 mins tops

Tim

mikejenkins

Dale,
I hear you but here's another reason why I think it isn't a leak! I set boost at .8 on the POWER FC Commander... I get 3 PSI! I set it at 2.0... I get 3 PSI! No matter how it is set up... No matter how much boost I ask it to pump out... it is alweays 3 psi... If there was a boost leak there should at least be a little bit of a difference and there is none... I really think that finally everything is hooked up right... my POWER FC is a piece of sh-t and I need to replace it with one that actually controls boost... but I'm going to try one last thing and that is setting the solenoids back up without the boost control kit... If the POWER FC spits out 3 PSI max... I'm plugging the boost controller back in the way it is set up now and waiting for some cash to come along so I can purchase a new PFC... then I'm going to take the one that I currently have in the car and throw it into the Atlantic.

Tim Benton

iTrader: (1)

Mike,

I bet the PFC alone, with the stock solenoids hooked back up correctly, will control boost just fine. Throw the boost control kit into the Atlantic.

Tim

clayne

Wait a second mike,

Are you adjusting the DUTY CYCLES or just the BOOST LEVEL on the boost page? The "boost level" controls the fuel cut for excessive boost, not the actual boost level.

You need to adjust the DUTY CYCLE. This determines how OPEN the control solenoid is. The solenoid just vents air from the input to the output. The duty cycle determines how quickly the solenoid shuts on and off. 0% DC would be fully closed, default state - no air would pass through the solenoid and the wastegate would open as early as possible in a STOCK configuration. The way your lines are routed you have the solenoid pre-actuator instead of post-actuator like stock. 95% DC would have the solenoid venting as fast as possible and almost all air would pass through the solenoid into the WG actuator - pressurizing the diaphragm and opening the wastegate.

So in short, stock configuration:

[ compressor pressure control line ] ---> WG act. ---> WG solenoid ---> vent

Your configuration:

[ compressor pressure control line ] ---> WG solenoid ---> WG act. ---> END

The former (stock) vents pressure OUT of the WG actuator, keeping the WG closed when your solenoid DC is high since the actuator needs pressure in order to operate.

The latter (your configuration) vents pressure INTO the WG actuator, and since actuator outlet is capped off, opens the WG the higher your solenoid DC is - as the solenoid is allowing more air into the actuator which becomes pressurized and moves the gate arm.

There is nothing wrong with your line routing in the first picture. But the duty cycles you have specified in your PFC may be plain wrong - especially with no internal line restrictor/pill/etc. Set the DC to lower values and see what happens.

The routing you have should result in better boost control since the solenoid is directly controlling the pressure the actuator sees. Normally there is a restrictor pill inside of the line coming from the compressor outlet. This restriction prevents the wastegate from being pressurized so easily. Without the pill and with stock duty cycles of say 60%, the solenoid in your configuration is allowing way too much pressure into the WG actuator. The whooshing sound you are hearing is the WG opening up super early. Lower the duty cycle!!

Always remember, the wastegate actuator OPENS the wastegate when the actuator is PRESSURIZED. Whether you prevent pressure from entering the actuator or instead bleed pressure off as fast as possible, the entire goal is to regulate the actuator pressure with the solenoid.

The solenoid is just an electro-magnetic device which opens the internal valve on and off when it receives electrical current (shorted to ground). If you vary the rate at which you trigger the solenoid from low rate to high rate you can determine how much air makes it past the solenoid in a given time period. 10% DC would have the solenoid opening and closing it's internal valve less times over the same time span. 90% DC would have the solenoid opening and closing it's internal valve more times over the same time span. Electrically it's a pulse width modulation signal which shorts the solenoid to ground. DC determines the RATE of the PWM signal.

clayne

CORRECTION for the AVC-R solenoid!

I just looked up the AVC-R manual, and the solenoid Apex'I uses has 3 ports on it. 1 input (NO), 1 output (COM), and 1 vent (NC).

[ compressor ] ---> ( NO port [ solenoid ( internal vent to NC port detemined by DC ) ] COM port ) ---> wastegate actuator ---> END

Duty cycle increase with AVC-R solenoid works normally, allowing high DC to vent to atmosphere out the NC port, instead of COM, thereby diverting pressure which was being routed to the actuator out the COM port.

My comments above mainly apply to how the stock wastegate solenoid functions, I wasn't aware the AVC-R version had a 3-port design with seperate vent.