I'm now a little more hesitant about just dropping my SR bought 1300 secondaries in. I know I'm sending them to RC to flow test them since it seems everyone in my area that goes larger secondaries has yet NOT to blow there engine. Doug has now went through 2 engines, Roy 2 engine, Phil 1 engine (hope not though), all with the same combo...PFC and larger secondaries. I know thats a jump in conclusion, but what if they didn't do like Chuck and send them off and maybe they weren't flowing 1200 and 1300 cc like they were supposed to and Poof. Chuck to this date is the only person I know of running larger secondaries and the PFC and not blown the engine. Anyone else an active forum member running them and not blown their engine? Phil's seems to have bit the dust right after the injector swap, fine before, not after..so it wasn't blown trying to tune it. DOug lost the first engine at the track, but it was tuned with a wideband to a right 11.5 to 1 ratio, his second engine (Mandeville built 3 mm seals) was also dyno tuned, but it went Poof as well. Any ideas?

Tim Benton

 

Tim,

My friend Rick also swaped out his 850s for 1200s just like mine and only changed the data with the commander, same as me. We tested his AFRs with a linear O2 sensor and they were mid 11s. He has not had any problems either.

We both are running non-stock fuel pumps. I have the RP NippoD stock replacement with 25% more flow. Rick has something else that gives him about 4 psi over what the stock and mine does. He also has a ported engine, and runs nitrous when the weather is warm. He hasn't had any problems either.

One thing that I did was set the PFC value to something other than 1200. One flowed slightly over 1200 and the other slightly under. The average was 1199.7 So I set the size as 1199 and used the richer injector for the rear rotor where it should be hotter. This way I was insured of proper fuel delievery. Rick also did this. Maybe this is the difference!

 

I'm running 1680s ..... just starting to get them dialed in so right now they are rich as can be. Better rich than lean .....

 

Rich (Goodfellas) has been running 1300cc with his PFC and it's been fine for him.

 

i will be running 1600s with the pfc and datalogit..... why do you all have to scare me.

 

better scared and safe, than just going ***** out ans blowing the engine without some more info. Have those injectors checked out before you install them...like Chuck did. Its just with some many engines gone with that combo, I just wanted some reassurance before I did the install and get learn the hard way.

Thanks for the post Chuck, I knew about your 1199 from a prior post and the fact you put the richer flowing injector in the rear rotor if I recall correctly. Its not that I think the PFC can't run them, its more about the reliability and the actual flow rates of the larger injectors that has/had me worried.

Tim

 

I got RC 1300cc secondaries & (knock on wood) no problems so far. My PFC was tuned by XS but I tweaked the ignition timing a little to get rid of some negative split numbers. I sent Chuck my maps to compare with his numbers. Seems to run fine.

Kelvin

 

Mine went right after the 1300 injectors from SR

 

So what did the post mortem on these blown engines show? Blown apex seals from detonation? I'm just trying to figure out if these engines were tuned for safe AFRs why did they blow? Too much agressive timing?

 

Or the injectors aren't doing what they are supposed to do. From my above post, Doug's car had injectors from Ray both times, Roy's car had larger secondaries from Ray, now50toslow's car went after injectors from SR. I think, but not sure, Phil also had injectors from Ray. Phil, where did you get yours at? I think it has more to do with the injectors than the PFC. Injectors not flowing the advertised rate, or just plain failing shortly after install.

Tim Benton

 

Were any of you running upgraded fuel pumps? Like Chuck implied, you need an upgraded fuel pump to supply the fuel for those larger secondaries.

Also, this concerns me as I live close to SR Motorsports and was going to purchase a PFC tuned by them. Just wanted to know if everything is on the up-and-up over there.

 

I know Doug had an upgraded fuel pump, Roy the same, again, not sure about Phil or 50toslow. I just sent my SR 1300 to RC Engineering to be flow tested, I'll post the results when they get back.

Tim Benton

 

I did not get my injectors from Ray.

I bought NEW 850s and sent them to RC for enlarging to 1200.

 

I bought the PFC from SR, tuned buy SR, injectors from SR(new primarys and 1300secondarys), bought larger 20b fuel pump from rotary performance. I was seeing out rageous knock values 160's- 180's. Asked SR about it they said "that it was just a microphone picks up any engine noise." Never heard any audible preignition, but I quickly developed a high end miss. Trying to fix I spent hours replacing stuff It finally went. Not saying that it was definately SR I might have had other issues, but this all began after ordering the PFC

 

So you never had it tuned on the dyno or with a wideband? Correct?

 

I have RC Engineering 1200's (upgraded stock injectors) with a Walbro fuel pump. Its been good to me for about 6 months so far.........


knock on wood, knock on wood, knock on wood, knock on wood, knock on wood, knock on wood, knock on wood, knock on wood, knock on wood, knock on wood,

maybe that will be enough wood knocking, I hate replying to posts like these!!!!!

What about thier fuel filters, do they change thier filters every 15-20K miles??? Once Cam at Pettit told me that his experience with blown engines(which is vast) has shown the filter to be the culprit of more blown engines than anything else.

Later,
STEPHEN

 

i got my 1600s from k2 and tested the firing buy hookig them up to our tester. and they click.

 

Without the datalogit, or Power Xcel software, can the Power FC be correctly tuned for larger secondaries? I know that you can change the settings, but do you need to alter the base map for proper tuning? I haven't heard of anyone with an XS tuned car blowing a motor with upgraded secondaries. Anyone have any good insight?

eric

 

Has anyone had trouble using the GM injectors (Bosch)? And what injector impedance is required for the Power FC? I am ready to order 1600's and need to know.

 

Eric,

You might need a DATALOGIT if changing primary size to 850 for fine tuning the idle. Some have had to do this and others not. Seems to depend on the total affect of all the engine mods.

If the secondaries need to be enlarged more than what can be done with the commander, then you need the DATALOGIT.

 

I have 1300's from Ray, original (too rich) tuning from Ray on the PFC and no problems. My 1300's were new 850's bored out, not used 850's. I'm assuming Ray has all his injectors flowed at RC...could be wrong, but I doubt he's hogging them out himself late at night in the workshop. I know of RC(West Coast) and Marin (East Coast) that does this sort of work. Maybe Kinsler? Who else?
Michel

 

this discussion is not particular enuff...what and where is the problem???? if the car is dynotuned properly and it is running withing proper fuel and temp ranges etc...what and why would there be a problem with the power fc and 1300 cc injectors?


you guys...argh...my car goes on the dyno on friday and now I see this....haha

I have rc 1300 secondaries....and the power fc..as well as the 20b pump (nippondenso).

 

Would it be better to go with 850's at all four?
Just using the stock secondaries, but what about the idle?

 

Jason,

The only point I'm trying to make is the reliability of the enlarged injectors. Do they flow the stated amount AND how long do the injectors last.....since like I stated few cars, all with enlarged secondaries have blown up within 3 months of installing them. 2 of the cars were indeed dyno tuned to a rich and safe 11.5 or 6 to 1. Granted other things could be wrong, BUT the cars were running the stock injectors fine or atleast having blown up until they decided to go larger and poof.
Even if they flow the stated rate, just how mechanically reliable are they compared to stock....(estimated life till replacement from some sort of mechanical failure...which takes the engine out due to a to lean a mixture).
Tim Benton

 

hey guys, figured I woudl chime in been busy with my BLOWN engine

anyway, I got my 1300cc from Rotary Xecret, but they are just sent to RC enginerring. I have a print out from RC stating the flow rates. one was 1300 and other 1305.

Tim, I really am not sure that those injectors belw my engine. I know what you are talking about in the dataloggit forum many have stated hesitation with large injectors, obviously hesitation is a lean condition for a few secs. I know 1300 and larger will more likely cause a stumble, but 1200cc were on back order too long.

with the datalogit you have much more control over injector settings, there shoudl not be a problem. I don;t think my engien blew from injectors I was at 5lbs of boost at 3300rpm. Again I doiubt it was teh injectors failing as I was experiencing the same thing before theyt were installed, but who knows, I guess we will find out if I blow up my new 3mm street-ported engine