The Power FC standard maps in milliseconds and % duty cycle...

http://www.wvinter.net/~flanham/wlan...mapcharts.html

Wade

 

Very good site and I have been reading the same data. However when datalogging the advanced injpri and injsec parameters I have found that the primary injectors are not reduced. I have yet to verify that the secondaries are at 40% (or whatever the number is in your computer). I read somewhere on the datalogit group where the fuel formula was more complicated than this yet I'm not sure it works that way either. I would really like it work this way so I can determine those staging points .. ie Haltech.

 

Thanks. The stuff on my site describes the exact staging algorithm that was posted to the datalogic list by Steve, in fact I was the person to prompt him for the information in the first place. The datalogic explanation seems more complicated because it is brief but once you understand the formula it is actually a simple concept.

Regardless of whether the staging occurs when primaries reach 70% and destage when the result would be 40% primary, the millisecond values should be correct for 550cc injectors. Meaning, you can create an exact Haltech E6K map (or map for any ECU for that matter) directly from the PFC base maps if you want to do the math.

Assuming you are staging your e6k at 1 psi like most people, for all loads below that just use the ms value in the PFC ms table on my site.

For all loads above 0 psi, just the value in the PFC ms table * 0.3929 (assuming you have stock 550/850cc injectors). If you have 550/1300 injectors, your loads above 0 psi would need to be the value in the PFC ms table * 0.2973 (1100/3700cc).

If someone will send me a few datalogic datalogs I should be able to figure out if the staging occurs at 70%/40% primary duty as we think.

Wade

 

Where do you want me to send them? I will run the numbers as well and see if we get the same thing. I am running 1680s by the way and I can tell you want I was running (ie parameters) for each datalog.

 

Are you saying in your previous reply that you would like to know exactly where the PFC staging points occur? You say, "ie.. Haltech", what do you mean?

If you are having a stumble or something and you think it might be related to staging then we can probably figure that out. Send some datalogs to wadelanham@hotmail.com and I'll try to look at them in the next couple of days.

If you know what your runs were like, try to pick one file that has you slowly and easily accelerating from very low RPM up to high RPM, e.g. from a stop up to 7000 RPM with light throttle. Also try to pick one where you are cruising at low RPM (say, 2000-2500 RPM) in perhaps 3rd gear, then punch it and take the revs up high. We should be able to see the staging occur in both cases.

Thanks,
Wade

 

i believe that if you hit the + or - key if in the base map page on datalogit the value changes by 0.039ms. So if i have 1300 secondaries should that valus be change dfrom 0.039 to 0.029? and can that value be changed ?

 

I just want to know that the staging points are the same every time. I am worried about correction factors changing the point and running lean. I'm going to do 2 runs specifically like you mentioned and then I'll send you the data. I still haven't had time to run your equations on my previous data.

 

If the staging works anything like what Steve and I think, the staging points are different depending on a lot of factors, the big ones being water and air temp.

[...]
If this is correct, it seems that adjusting the base inj map to accomodate larger secondary injectors would cause problems when the staging point shifts upward in RPM or load (because of water or air temp changes) and then you would be left with lean spots just before transition.

I'm not sure why your car runs rich after the secondaries come online if you adjusted the ratio in the PFC, I can't think of anything the PFC would use that information for except to determine the millisecond reduction after staging occurs (normally to 39%, now much more of a reduction). I don't really know how the PFC handles different injector sizes.

Wade

 

I am using 1680cc injectors w/ SX fuel pressure regulator and the ND fuel pump on a single turbo. I used the XS single turbo map. I used the datalogit to change only the injector size to start with and I was so rich it wasn't even funny. As I've taken fuel out it runs better but i did that via the INJ map. I honestly don't believe that it auto corrects. I have a single turbo (60-1) and I should have to add fuel because I have more air flow -- but I don't ... I've had to remove fuel.

I've tried playing with overlap, inj lag time, inj transition time, and pri inj % for transition parameters and I'm starting to get a feel for what is going on with the PowerFC.

 

Spyfish,

If you want to know for certain if the staging points vary based on water and air temp, you should disconnect one or both of your secondary injectors. When staging happens, the car will fall flat. Do this when the car is cold a few times and get an idea of the staging zones, then repeat after about 10 minutes once the car is fully warm. I wish I'd tried this when I had a PFC but I didn't. :/

I did this once with my stock ECU to find the transition points. Staging seemed to happen at 0psi boost at lower RPM and about 4500 RPM with high vacuum. And of course, many areas in between. It seemed that when the car was cold (and greatly enriched) the staging would happen at even lower RPM than 4500 when at very high vacuum.

I plan to do this again in the next few days just to try to nail the stock staging zones a little better.

Wade