Before hand, please don't tell me to take it to a tuner. I want to learn how to tune myself. But it's like these things are from a foreign planet. I sent it off for a base tune. It came back and I plugged it in. It started right up. After the re-learning process it was running rich (9.0-10.5) at idle. So I went to the fuel map and pulled a little fuel (-2.5%) and suddenly it wouldn't run at all. So I added the fuel back to where it was before and I'm still in the same place. It runs too lean and if I give it any throttle it goes completely lean and dies. All I did was pull a little fuel from 3 squares on the map! Then there's PIM voltage and I tried adding percentage to that but it didn't do anything so I put everything back to the way it was before and nothing changed.

 

Flooded maybe or spark plugs

 

#0. Make sure there is no leak in manifold. Don't be afraid to change out spark plugs and deflood engine if you're tuning rotary.

with that in mind
#1. Get a good base map. Pull timing globally to add safety. Add fuel to the boost boxes for added safety. Get the car started and idle smoothly.
#2. Get wideband. shoot for 12-14 at vacuum idle/cruise.
#3. If you're making less than 300whp, find a long hill, and tune boost fuel to 10 or so. If you're making more, get on the dyno.
#4. I adjusted timing based on torque feel. It's not scientific but I set the boost to 2psi max and adjusted timing based on engine response and how the torque felt with my butt. Then pulled couple degrees in the 3000-5500 range to be on the safe side. It worked for me, but eventually I also gave it to a tuner to get it tuned professionally. You ideally want dyno here and look for MBT. I also read about people adjusting according to EGT. upto you.
#5. Readjust fuel setting with the new timing map.

Between all steps, don't be afraid to check the spark plugs and change them out frequently. Just wash them with brake cleaner and dry them out in oven at 150*F for an hour or two.

 

If your engine likes to run at AFR 10, then that's the AFR your engine likes. but you need to check the plugs to make sure they are dry. If it's heavily ported, it's possible your engine likes to idle rich. Just go by sound and feel, not by AFR for idle and vacuum cruise.

 

But anything under 10.5 and you're really just dousing the engine in fuel. It actually washes away the oil increasing wear on the motor. It'll idle leaner than that. So when I got my base map it was running good but rich so I pulled a little fuel and suddenly it didn't want to run at all, even after I changed things back to the way they were before on the base map. I did use PIM volt, if that has anything to do with it. On a side note, in case I can't figure things out, where are the good Power FC tuners? And what's the one nearest to Wyoming?

 

It's weird though. It will idle and run as long as I don't touch the pedal. If I try to rev it AT ALL it will go completely lean and die.

 

Are you sure both primary injectors are firing

 

Yeah I solved the problem. In the PIM volt option there is "Normal, Option 1, Option 2 etc". Apparently they're for different map sensors. Anyways it needed to be set on option 2 which is for a 3 bar map sensor or something? I had it set on Normal.

It's running great now. I can drive it now anyways. It seems to run rich when in boost and after messing with the cells, it seems to make little difference in the afr's. I still have some questions though. For example, are there any tips to get my car to idle leaner as it doesn't want to idle any leaner than 12.0. Secondly what's your opinion on negative split? I hear you can get better gas mileage with it. Finally my car is ported, is there anything special to keep in mind when tuning a ported motor? Thanks.

 

nobody?

 

what size primary injectors? are you logging? idle is sensitive, small changes make big afr moves, you need to tune areas, smooth map, tune smooth. Make sure to tune the base map when it is the same temps, correction factors can mess things up, smooth driving inputs, go across rows, steady pedal pressure, do not log and drive around ad hoc. work from the vacuum cells on up, you should not have boosted already. This approach can tell if something is wrong with a component, or if you are at the limits of the fuel pump or whatever it may be.

set watches, injector duty cycle, knock, water temp, air temp. make sure things are stable in these, don't exceed injector duty much over 85% for long durations, ensure water temps are stable and air temps, if they aren't the correction factors on tab 2 will throw off the base tune. when base tune is complete or close, drive car and fine tune correction factors.

Obviously you need to set up setting 5 correct, and setting 3 correct. Also make sure when you log you have everything linked correct and the polynomial is at least close.

I am hoping you checked everything else on the car and the powerFC, TPS voltage, AFR reading right in map watch, all inputs are good, steady voltage of the car, etc, etc, etc. tune idle first, vacuum rows next, partial boost, then boost, tuning from rich to leaner.

 

Okay that was a good write up, thank you. One more question, why does my car have to re-learn to idle every time I start the car after not driving it for a few hours?

 

correction factors, different loads on the engine perhaps? different cells of the map are not smoothed.

The car doesn't idle in one cell all the time, it might be in a small area, and depending on the cells values it might have an easier time interpolating between cells than other ones. if the map isn't smoothed its bouncing back and fourth trying to cover a large gap between cells and the engine doesn't like the squirt, no squirt, squirt of varying amounts. smooth transitions make a tune good or bad (part of a good tune).

 

what is a smooth transition? 1%? 5%? Because 10% doesn't seem to have that much of an affect on my afr's.

 

I still have some questions though. For example, are there any tips to get my car to idle leaner as it doesn't want to idle any leaner than 12.0. Secondly what's your opinion on negative split? I hear you can get better gas mileage with it. Finally my car is ported, is there anything special to keep in mind when tuning a ported motor? Thanks.

Welcome to rotary.

Everything is normal, don't worry.

For low load (idle and cruise out of boost) just give the motor what it wants to run/rev-up best as far as AFRs and timing.
For high load (boost on a turbo car) just set a minimum AFR you are comfortable with (like 12:1 under 5psi boost, 11.5:1 under 10psi boost, 11:1 under 15psi boost and 10.5:1 over 15psi boost and anytime over 6,000rpm) and give the motor what it wants above those minimum values for fuel.
Stick to base timing map till you get on the dyno.

Tune in some fail safes, like rich at low load and high rpm so you can do burnouts and climb hills without your EGTs skyrocketing. Big fuel addition when coolant or air temps are on the very high end of the scale.

If you think I am crazy, just put a wideband on a stock FD and drive it around. You only see 14.7AFRs at warmed up freeway cruise and 10:1AFRs are the norm under boost.

My personal engine likes very rich (10afrs or richer). It is ported with more overlap, but not later closing and 8.5:1 rotors.

I couldn't do negative split on my ECU, but my motor did like as low as timing as I could with no split for smoothest idle. It pretty much liked normal base map timing above idle.
I did find a little better turbo response with very low split timing right when the turbo is coming into boost (raised the EGTs).

 

What's your timing at idle and when going into boost? When you have no split are you advancing the trailing or retarding the leading?

 

#1 lesson of tuning, save the map before touching it.
ironically, even "professional tuners" often fail at this step.

#2 lesson of tuning: read, lots. there is pages on this forum in regards to tuning and you won't find it all in one place. it's too time consuming to write it all out to someone, for free, which it cost each of us thousands of dollars in man hours or in schools learning it.

 

^^^
Yes!
Make sure you can get back to your base map. Its also useful to have your steps saved along the way. As you learn to tune you will realize that one change can work great in one situation and not work in another.


WyomingTII

What's your timing at idle and when going into boost? When you have no split are you advancing the trailing or retarding the leading?

Well, get into boost. I never had a turbo that didn't have boost off idle, but for really low rpm and load I found it is much better to just tune the engine for best "response". The fastest and cleanest rev up, or accel.

You can get on a loading dyno and find you make more hp with retarded timing and a bunch of fuel, but that is not a realistic scenario as when driving in lower gears you will sweep through these load ranges quickly.

Do you want best acceleration in 1st gear through 800-2,000rpm or do you want best acceleration in 5th gear through 800-2,000rpm. The tune will be different.

WyomingTII

What's your timing at idle and when going into boost? When you have no split are you advancing the trailing or retarding the leading?

My timing was all the way retarded at idle.
My timing above idle was base map for the ECU I was using.
Lowering or increasing split timing means changing the Trailing timing.

The rpm range I went (back) to 0 split (in the load cells) for more spool through higher EGT was 2,500-3,000rpm where the turbo went from being stuck at ~8psi boost to full boost. Obviously, you don't want the high EGTs there for cruise, so don't pull the split in the low load ranges if you want to play around with this.

 

Alright, thanks Blue TII. You're very helpful. I always search first. But I could't find the right way to lower split.

 

I don't think you understand what I am saying.


How does the powerFC work?

it works based off a 20/20 grid. rpm vrs. load.

Interpolation is taking values and calculating a value between them.

For instance a smooth map with have a slow gradual incline, for instance. in the 20/20 grid, 400 cells, the "grid" when viewed from above will have what looks like a small flat in the upper left corner (idle area), as the map and load increase (goes to the right or down or down and right), the entire map increases fuel smoothly and gradually. at the outer boundaries of this grid it may decline a bit (after max torque) and perhaps do a fuel dump (at max load) for safety. but in general when viewing this the entire map should be smoothed out...no bumps/ridges/cliffs, etc.

The reason I say this is the computer interpolates between all these values, interpolation is the ability to calculate between points. When the points aren't smooth and you have cliffs and ridges all over the place your fuel won't be steady, which leads to crappy driving and dangerous delivery of fuel or spark.


The speed and accuracy to get this map is what makes a tuner a good one or a bad one. You also need to know what you want and drive the car in the way to gather the data correctly from logging.

There is an art to tuning and also driving. What makes a good driver is the exact same thing that makes a tuner good. It's to take the most rediculous turns and ridges and make everything as smooth as you can. make sharp turns a little less sharp and round everything out. The fastest drivers sometimes also are the least harsh in the car hell toe downshifting and what not.

There is a lot to learn and you need to have the basic understanding of how it all works, your ignition timing maps and base fuel map all need to be smoothed out after rough tuning. then focus on areas to tune and keep refining and refining. sometimes moving entire rows is the best thing to tune. and remember, interpolation at one cell might use the cell its in, the two below it and the two above it. all needs to work together.


also you never stated what size primary injectors you have. If they are larger than 550-650CC you need to run negative injector lag. the powerFC only goes down so far and after that it won't pull anymore fuel, its at its limitations.