LT8TurboII

iTrader: (2)

For me it was a ride in Brians car that finally sold me, I was flip flopping on my car before that. I plan on using all my stock gauges, and the rest of the factory controls are in no way connected to the engine save the logicon that will need to be wired to work with the GM AC Compressor.

capn

when actually embarking on the swap what were the major hurdles that came into play while doing this? what were problems (if any) after the swap?

did you throw away the power steering, or was it retained? does the GM A/C compressor have to be specially fitted and does it need specilty lines? And those of you that went with the T56 Transmission was the shifter in a very reasonable position, close to that of stock?

When finally complete, what were your first impressions of the cars drivability and handling characteristics, were they changed for better or worse? if you could have changed one thing during the swap what would it be?

With more power, traction becomes an issue, did the stock wheels (if you kept them) not have the ability to handle the traction? and did the car have any weight problems (probably minimal) that made tires rub (stock and aftermarket).

Which company did you decide to go with for your swapping products and needs?

LT8TurboII

iTrader: (2)

I am in the middle of my swap and I am using the Grannies kit for the LT1. If you go with an SBC or LT1 the grannies stuff seems to work fine, but I would go Hinson for an LS1 setup.

The stock LT1 accesory pumps/alternator can remain where they are stock, however if you use the stock GM LT1 alternator you will have to trim your hood supports. THis is easily remidied by using a smaller GM alternator or an FD altermator with the GM pully. The GM AC compressor will need custom lines as it sits on the opposite side of the engine bay.

LT1-10AE

Good questions. Some may find them "noob questions," but if they aren't answered then those seeking the answers don't know where to look. (Not saying you're a noob, just good, basic questions everyone considering the swap will want to know)

The biggest hurdle was sourcing my engine and tranny. The rest is a phone call or website away. After the swap, the only problems I encountered were a leaking heater core (not swap related), swapped plug wires on #3 and #5 (It came that way and I never checked), and the occasional power steering whine.

I'm using the F-body power steering reservoir with all the LT1 accesories. The GM pump pumps even more fluid than the Mazda pump does. The reservoir was aerating the fluid because the Mazda rack doesn't provide enough backpressure to let the fluid flow the way GM designed. It has since calmed down and there are two fixes for it. One is to put some copper pot scrubbers (looks like a crumpled up hair net) in the reservoir to stabilize the fluid as it comes flying in the resevoir. The other is a restrictor fitting that can be bought from hotrod shops for using GM pumps on hotrods with the Mustang II steering rack (Very common in hotrods.) The Mustang II rack suffers the same problem as the Mazda rack does when paired with a GM pump.

Power steering: LT1 pump and reservoir with a custom pressure line made at a local hose fab shop. I took the stock pressure line fitting that makes a "U" on the rack, cut it and welded it back together so it's straight and shorter. The return line is a normal 3/8" P/S return line. The second (smaller diameter) hard line on the rack can be capped off. Remove the fitting from the rack, cut the line off flush with the bushing the bolt goes through and weld it shut. Works just fine.

A/C compressor: Stock LT1 compressor. RX-7 condenser. I haven't been to the A/C shop yet to have the custom lines made yet. They will be able to tell me if I can use the stock filter/drier. I'm pretty sure I can, but I'm no A/C guru.

The LT1/T56 combo will place the shifter right in the center of the hole in the floorboard. I use a short shift rod ($25) from ws6store.com and the height is the same as stock and the rod is perfectly straight. I'd prefer to see it sit lower and I'm going to cut mine down and have it rethreaded for my Greddy ****.

It was indescribable. It was (and still is) the best experience I have had behind the wheel of a sports car. Others have driven it and walked away either speechless or they couldn't stop commenting about how easy it is to get rolling from a stop. Handling is right on par with a pre-swapped FC. If anything, the tail likes to come around easier, but that's probably due to my heavy foot and torque on demand

I have 16x7 and 16x8 GAB Sport wheels. I had no rubbing issues because of the swap. My left front always rubbed and it wans't better or worse after the swap.

Traction problems? Uh, yeah I've got a set of 17x8 and 17x10s coming with Goodyear F1s in 235 and 275 to help out in that arena.

I went with Granny's. Although their site could benefit from an updated look, they have TONS of information there to read through. Some people have had problems with them and some have had problems with Hinson. I chose to go with the first one I had ever heard of, and the fact that they do have just about every part you need to complete the swap minus a couple of trips to Autozone. I didn't purchase every item to do the swap, but it was nice knowing that if there was something I couldn't fab up or purchase locally, I could get it from them.

Personally I had a very good experience dealing with them.

capn

well thanks for not marking me as a noob i just try to present myself approprietly and professionally.

but back to the topic, the next thing i would like to know is the fuel system, i have read that dropping in a 255lph pump and adjustable FPR will do the job. what was your particular setup? did you buy it (premade) or did you have it custom made? and what else did you need to complete the fuel system?

I have also noticed that the stock clutch cylinder had to be changed to an upgraded one, did you have to replace the slave cylinder too?

FC3SHawaii

Originally, we were going to put in a Chevy V6 into our FC. I had located, one of the old NASCAR V6 engines, complete with 18 degree heads, and a bunch of other parts. However, while I was in the planning stages of the car (This car was to be built to race D1GP/Formula D), some of my friends in Japan, were telling me, that D1 might soon ban such engine combinations (Japan car, American engine. They didn't though). So, I had to find another engine, as the one in the FC was dead as a door ****. The guys who had it before us, looked like they tried to get it running again, as it had new plugs, fliter, oil, rebuilt starter and a few other things. Also, the car was an automatic. For me, one of my friends works at American Honda, so he hooked me up with a JDM version of the F20C. This swap, took a lot of work, but for me, I really don't mind. I enjoy this kind of challenge.

Overall, the car handles quite well, and I am glad I did this. Not because it has a Honda engine, as it could have been anything in there that I could have gotten my hands on, but that it was just fun to do this swap. I'm all for doing swaps, as that is what the essence of "HOT RODDING" from the past is all about. Building what YOU want to build, and having fun at the same time.

I really like how this thread has progressed. I hope it stays this way for a long time to come.

IaMtHeRuThLeSs1

Reason I'm doing it?

Cause I'm a poor *** teenager who wants a faster car.

Great thread so far, lets keep it up!

SPiN Racing

Reason I finished the 1st gen 302 swap???

The guy that GAVE me the car was getting a divorce.. and his wife kicked him out.. the sherrif gave him 24 hours to get all his **** out of her house.
He knew I had a lot of cars and a 327 and 200R4 waiting to go in a car.

I couldnt just let it sit!!! It is a totally stripped to the shell 1st gen with a Seat and a FMX tranny. No wiring ANYWHERE.

Finished it up.. (All teh things to make it breathe etc.. fuel cell and plumbing etc.)

Started it and WOW.

It is truly a treat to try to drive it. TRY.
As it still has the 1st gen skinnies on it.. that were stock all the way around.. It basically breathes Thunder.. (Well as much as a 84 302 can) ANd DESTROYS the tires through all three gears before you move.. at half throttle.

Needless to say.. if I had a spare 1st gen with full interior etc and title and blown motor.. I would simply pull off the front subframe.. and move it over to the clean 1st gen.
As it is.. it is drag only.. or burnout.. or auto-X.... but I have not done any of them cause of time.

But the 327 calls to me from behind Evilaviators 20B... where it waits patiently in the corner.

gnx7

iTrader: (10)

With an LS1/T56 conversion the FD loses none of the great handling/breaking/accelleration. It only becomes a better car with increased reliability, better fuel consumption, better performance.

Pros:
Reliability
low end power
major torque increase (wide powerband)
6 speed
no loss in handling
quieter
more power potential and hardly any loss of reliability

Cons:
Can't rev to the moon (my LS1 will only go to 7200rpmish.... a built 13B could do 10K RPM+)
Neighbors can't hear my car from blocks away now

With the T56 and the higher revving LS1 (with good rod bolts/dual springs) the 4:10's aren't that bad. 3:90's would be better....

A friend of mine just did 5200rpm+ in 6th gear (.50) with 4:10's out back in a 430rwhp LS1/FD. It runs low 11's at nearly 130mph n/a. At that RPM in 6th it equates to 170+mph....... that was going up hill and the car was still pulling. If that doesn't say these cars can have some major KAHONES with the conversion then I don't know what does.

-GNX7

capn

Great guys! look at some of the other questions too, and give answers to those.

great stuff!

owen is fat

i have read that dropping in a 255lph pump and adjustable FPR will do the job. what was your particular setup? did you buy it (premade) or did you have it custom made? and what else did you need to complete the fuel system?since I am running an unmodded LS1, just a 255lph pump and adjustable FPR will be enough. the pump was easy to install in my FC, there is an access panel in the hatch area floor. the FPR and hoses were a new thing for me to work with but it was simple enough, I retained the stock FC hardlines for fuel supply and return up into the engine bay and ran fuel hose from them up to the FPR and LS1, incuding an aftermarket filter as well, it was all pretty inexpensive and I had fun learing how to do it.

I have also noticed that the stock clutch cylinder had to be changed to an upgraded one, did you have to replace the slave cylinder too? I bought the clllutch master from Hinson, its a U.S.Brake 7/8ths bore stainless unit, with a metric thread rod welded onto the end of the (off the shelf U.S.Brake) english threaded rod where the pedal attaches. before installing this you might need to cut the rod to a shorter length to be sure the MC returns to the start of its stroke when not pressing the clutch pedal. I figured this out only after trying to bleed it for a half hour then realizing it was tough to install because I should have cut the rod a bit shorter, that would have also made the install very simple, like a 5 minute job... nice one. the new MC pushes more fluid but with the same pedal travel as stock RX7. its wonderfully light especially if you understand how beefy the T56 is. the shifter feels truck-like to me but the clutch is perfect, I'll be trying to lighten the shifter feel a bit and get a shorter shifter too, stock T56 is kinda tall.

for the slave cylinder, you use the T56 unit, and there is some newer/improved design that is less pronbe to failure, I think it is 2000 or 2001 and newer that got that fromt he factory, if you buy an older T56 then you should upgrade the slave while its out of the car, trust me. I didnt but I should have.

for a clutch line, you modify the stock Fbody clutch line on the end where it connects to the master cylinder... essentially adding a good 8-9 inches in length and switching over to a threaded end so it can thread into the U.S.Brake MC. I found a used Fbody line for $20 (and another found for $10!) then it was under $30 to have it modified locally, but Hinson can modify it too.

LT1-10AE

I have a Walbro 255HP. Everthing else is stock Mazda or GM. The stock TII pump is plenty enough to feed a mild LT1. My Walbro was already in the car so that's what I stuck with. I do have an Aeromotive regulator coming to lower the pressure. I sit at 45PSI right now (right on par with F-body stock), but people are making 16-20whp just by dropping the pressure down to 38PSI.


The hole in the firewall for the clutch slave needs to be enlarged about 1/8" all around to fit the new clutch master. The Wilwood clutch master is actually just a tiny bit too big for the T56 slave. If you push the clutch all the way to the floor, it hyperextends the clutch fork and it makes an incredible racket. This can be cured by threading the Wilwood actuator rod even further or simply fabbing up a stop for the pedal to ensure it doesn't go down too far.

Wilwood clutch master -> AN -3 braided line -> AN -3 to 1/8" NPT -> clutch slave.

I cut the GM clutch slave connector off flush with the body and retapped for 1/8" pipe and inserted the AN -3 to 1/8" NPT adapter there. Works perfectly.

LT1-10AE

I haven't seen an LS1 T56 up close, but if the shifter is the same, do yourself a favor and try one of these: http://www.ws6project.com/user_stor/...roducts_id=631

If it were about 1.5-2" shorter and threaded with the Mazda thread pitch, it will be PERFECT.

I've driven swapped cars with the OEM F-Body shifter and I must say, they are horrible feeling.

capn

Great!

alright now from a 2nd Gen, what parts (driveline wise) were you able to keep? what parts from 2nd gens are desireable to have when doing a swap like this?

back to fuel is anyone having fuel starvation at heavy throttle? if so have you done anything to remedy it?

LT8TurboII

iTrader: (2)

On the subject of fuel:

You will be able to push more power out of the TII fuel system with an NA V8 than with the boosted rotary. Why? Pressure, when dealing with the turbocharged motor fuel pressure must increase with boost pressure, as pressure increases flow decreases. With just an upgraded pump you should be fine with no worries to a little over 400rwhp. For BIG N20 or boost or wild NA apps (383, big cam/heads etc) you may need to upgrade your lines. I am also planning on using my Walbro 255lph pump that was already in my car from its rotary days.

As far as driveline parts, the FC rearend and halfshalves are about all you keep. You want the turbo ones if possible but the NA ones will work fine for a mild setup.

LT1-10AE

Basically, the parts in motion that you change during the swap are the engine, tranny and driveshaft. The rest of the driveline is unchanged.

The non turbo parts are OK for an average daily driver, but I'm not your average daily driver

If it's just going to be a fun car on the weekend and commute back and forth, etc, you don't need to change anything. If you are going to push this thing to it's extremes time and time again, use the following recipe - IN ORDER!

Turbo car:
Hawk black or equivilent pads (HPS pads SUCK!)
Meaty tires all around with wheels if you can afford them
A GOOD suspension. Coilovers or at the very least, KYB AGX and a set of nice linear springs.
Big swaybars

Non turbo:
Upgrade to five lug if not already
Upgrade to turbo brake calipers/rotors/etc
TII diff
Big swaybars

Those are a good street setup. If you want to go all out with coilovers, etc... then the car will be able to outhandle the driver

Just remember, the FIRST upgrade you should do on any car no matter what powers it are the brakes!

capn

Owen is Fat i noticed on your LS1 install that you reinforced the dif mounting location and used a solid bushing, is that nessesary? Also your radiator brackets are they custom or premade?

Now on the subject of suspensions, what shock/coilover setups are you running? what swaybar setups are you using?

LT8TurboII

iTrader: (2)

I have Tien HA's, DTSS elims, and stock sway bars.

capn

is it nessesary to remove the DTSS or is that something that you prefered?

J.S.J

My reasons are much like everyone else's, tho I have yet to start the conversion. I am still in the planing stages. I really don't like shifting a low torque engine package. I would just like to have more low-end push. The daily 1k to 5K just to get it going is not for me. The biggest reason is doing it. The thought process involved. Engineering, testing and implementing the needed subsystems to make it function correctly. I love the car but dislike the engine performance. Sure its fast but I just don't like winding it up to get a cup of coffee.

FC3SHawaii

I put a Aeromotive A1000 pump in ours, since I added a fuel cell into it. However, I have been told, for street use, this pump probably sucks the big one, as it tends to overheat, and die. For us, since it is a track car, it really doesnt matter though, as it never really sees time when the pressure is backed up on it. I have been considering the Barry Grant King Sumo, although the price is what is holding me back. Maybe when this pump dies, I'll change it. But until then, if it ain't broken, don't fix it!

Anyone else got opinions of the Aeromotive A1000 pump? Maybe they can tell me, the warning signs that it is about to die!

LT1-10AE

It's preference. The DTSS makes the car feel odd in a high speed turn. That, and they tend to wear out over time and then the back end does some REALLY weird stuff at high speed.

owen is fat

lol, you can just call me OWEN, my screenname is an attempt at trying to lighten my car even more... before the season starts..

it was suggested to me that a solid diff bushing would improve performance and if you run one of those then you should reinforce the subframe, especially on an S4 as they supposedly used thinner metal where the diff mount bolts to it. I had Rx-Ben weld up some more metal there just to be on the safe side since the subframe was out for the diff swap anyhow, no big deal. if you can do what I did, then go for it, but if its a big expense then I wouldnt bother unless youre building a drag car or something where youre really gonna stress/load that diff mount.

I made my own radiator brackets and Ive seen many different styles other guys on torquecentral have come up with as well... the granny's kit is nice and I'm sure Hinsons is too but I had fun designing and making my own, plus I saved some money by doing a lot of that stuff myself. I even milled out my own header flanges for my exhaust to bolt up with, since I didnt have the stock LS1 cats to cut flanges off of and aftermarket flanges were like $40/pair (or more)... I cant remember.

I run Tein Flex coilovers, found them online new for just over a grand.. the spring rates are perfect for autox and daily driving plus they come with camber plates and the spring height has a separate adjustment froom shock body height..... theyre pretty nice coilovers. I run stock swaybars F/R (did all FC's come with both?) but I had to make a spacer to move the front swaybar down 3/4'' and forward 1'' although some guys moved it half those distances. this is to clear the oilpan and fit it in the space between the crank pulley and steering rack.

this is a great thread!

FC3SHawaii

on the comments of Tein...
When I was about to buy my coilovers, I really took a hard look at Tein. Lower cost than most, and also, it was field serviceable. However, I was able to get a deal on the KEI OFFICE ones I run now.

However, later in the year, we went to the EIBACH SPRING open house, and was talking to the shock dyno guy. He said, he had run a whole lot of shocks on the dyno, and the best was KONI. The main reason was, every "click" meant something. Some shocks, you could move it three clicks, and it did nothing. He really seemed to like the Ground Control/Koni stuff. He said, he didn't like the TEINS, as the threaded area for the spring adjuster was not plated, so they rust and you have a hard time adjusting them later. There are a few guys here with TEINS though, and like them. So, I'm not really sure. However, the shock dyno don't lie, or maybe it was a sales pitch. I dunno. Just info anyways.

I'd like to get my KEI OFFICE ones on a dyno later, to see how it measures up.

LT1-10AE

I haven't had a chance to run a set of Konis yet. I have run AGXs, which give that definite change of each click. My only problem is - I didn't like any of the settings - I wanted something in between 1 and 2 or 4 and 5.

That's where coilovers like the Teins are (IMO) better. The adjustability is several levels and you can tune them to fit your driving and not just a few clicks with no smoth transition in between.

As far as the bodies rusting, I haven't noticed that on mine and they are now selling them teflon coated to eliminate that problem.