dbragg

iTrader: (7)

well, last night i sadly came to the conclusion that there are better options out there than the wankel. i hate to say that though. well after discussing that with a friend i started talkinga bout possible engine swaps i want to test out. my initial idea was an Sr20 like rotor vs piston. its cheaper, easy and a good building block. plus the market for those things is HUGE. theyre decently reliable also. i joking said what about a 2JZ and he said screw a 2jz, what about a 3s-gte? i got to thinking. thats not a bad idea. thats the power plant for the Top Secret supra. i know those engines are pretty much rock solid from everything ive heard.

this would be swapped into a 1st gen also.

what do you guys think?

NOPR

sr20 = cheaper? HA! i got an S5 TII front clip for 1100 TO MY DOOR! whats an SR run? like 2200? plus the extra fabrication? if you want to do something thats different or 'more reliable' or more powerful thats all dandy but its certainly not cheaper.

rarson

3S-GTE, I say go for it. It's a great engine, so why not?

I'd like to know some information about the engine internals. Depending on the height, rod length, and a few other things, the 3S might be more interesting to me than my current 4-cylinder of choice, the 4g63.

dbragg

iTrader: (7)

NOPR- if you look around you can get long block, tranny and ecu for anywhere from $1000-$3000. it also depends on if you choose S13, S14, or S15. pm rotor vs piston and ask him how much his swap cost. im pretty sure all he had to buy other then the above listed was a driveshaft. you can get an SR20 to 400hp and still be reliable. when you get a 13B that high reliability goes right out the door. a 20B could easily put out some high power, but a 20b swap done right cost an insane amount. also, 20bs arent that reliable and if it goes, a rebuiild is outrageous.

rarson-- i havent researched it too much, i just got the idea and shot it up here to see what others thought. heres some quick links i found.

http://www.mr2.com/TEXT/Mk2_vs_Mk1.html

http://www.crower.com/cat/import/toy.../pistons.shtml

i just emailed a company that is involved with converting 3S-GTE to RWD for old school corollas. ill see what kind of info they have for me.

F1blueRx7

iTrader: (5)

Unfortunately, the lower the price, the lower the reputation of the importer. KA-T > SR. Besides... Do it right the first time LS1. Or gt35 half bridge. Either will work.

dbragg

iTrader: (7)

^^haha i want an LS swap into a rx7, but id prefer the FD chasis for that swap. i think an LS swap into a SA/FB would be way too pricey for me at this time and would be too fast.....oh wait....theres no such thing as too fast

rarson

138mm rod with an 86mm stroke? That must be a short engine.

I'd rather stick with the 4g63's 150mm rods and 88mm stroke.

RiceFx306

iTrader: (7)

3SGTE is not a light motor being a iron block, but it still is one of my favorites. 18 psi on a stock block at 169,000 before it blew. And that motor got thrashed regularly. One of the many problems with the motor wasn't actually with the motor at all, but rather the ability to cool it. I think it would be neat to have a FMIC to help keep think under control.


www.suprastore.com/703sgtemot.html

Have fun, but I doubt it will end up as cheap as you had hoped.

KeloidJonesJr.

iTrader: (8)

Just think about all that custom work that needs to be done for the drivetrain not to mention mounts and what not. The question here is are you willing to spend that much money and time into it and not regret it later?

dbragg

iTrader: (7)

the problems with the drivetrain i dont see being that bad. mounting the engine and tranny and getting a custom driveshaft. of course stand alone will have to be done. im not going to jump into anything. ill be researching for a while.

psychot|K

Being a supra owner, I just have to caution you.
Yes, the 3S is the motor in the Top Secret and many JGTC supras. However, with the amount of money that's invested in those engines alone, they could of achieved the same power from a pencil sharpener.

gnx7

iTrader: (10)

They are getting 700hp+ from the 3S-GTE in that race Supra and don't need more power that the 2JZ can provide. The main reason they went with it was the reduction in weight over the front axle for a better handling Supra.

dbragg

iTrader: (7)

thanks. i had concidered that. thats why im doing my research now an dnot jumping into anything.



i had assumed the reason for the swap was for weight. i know it wasnt for more power. from what ive gathered the 2JZ could easily surpass those numbers. im not looking for 700+ HP though. at most maybe 400-500..at most. more likely around 300 would be fine. the reliability is the main factor for me. ive seen stock mr2 trubos run to death on higher boost and it took them forever to show problems. i know toyota has quality, thats why i intially thought the 3s-gte was a good idea. the 2jz is way too big and too pricey.

i havent heard back from the shop in california. im not in any rush though. i dont plan on attacking a swap like this for a few more years.

rarson

I don't get it. It doesn't make sense to drop the weight a little bit while sacrificing a few hundred horsepower. That car is for top speed. Horsepower is going to matter much more than weight at 180+ mph.

lane_change

iTrader: (20)

When you rotate the 3S-GTE to mount into the engine bay, take into consideration that the turbo/exhaust is on the wrong side, the fuel supply is on the wrong side, so you will be criss crossing your exhaust and fuel underneath your chassis.

rarson

Just run a braided fuel line across the engine bay.

lane_change

iTrader: (20)

I am not a fan of having my fuel lines cross over my exhaust no matter how you look at it.

rarson

Well, I was thinking about it, and the RX-7 intake and exhaust are on the same side. So there's no possible way that both of them could be on the wrong side on the 3S-GTE since it's a cross-flow design.

The fuel rail is on the correct side, the exhaust isn't. Either way, you're not going to have the fuel anywhere near the exhaust, at least not as much so as the stock RX-7 setup. Now the rail direction (of flow) may have to be reversed, but I don't see why that would be such a problem.

lane_change

iTrader: (20)

No, you are incorrect. In an RX7 the fuel delivery comes up the driver side and the exhaust/turbo side exits on the passenger side. The 3S-GTE is opposite, the turbo/exhaust is on the driver side, and the fuel entry comes from the passenger side.

The intake has nothing to do with the design, no one is arguing the intake route. I had highly considered this swap, I even purchased a friends 400+whp 3S setup from his All-trac....but as time went on, I decided against that swap and went with an alternative swap. The problems I saw were the basics of fuel delivery and return as well as exhaust routing and having to cross under the car to get back out the passenger side, which could interfere with the ground clearnace depending on how you setup your transmission and mounting system. The FD gas tank is raised up to allow for the exhaust clearance, so exiting on the driver side just won't happen (unless you go with a fuel cell.)

It can be done, anything can be done. Plus if you do it, you will have a very awesome FD3S.

rarson

Oops, yeah, sorry you're right. I was thinking that since the fuel rails were on the same side as the exhaust (since the intake is on that side, that's why I was talking about the intake) the lines were coming up that side.

But that means that everything is on the correct side for a 4g63 swap.

psychot|K

JGTC cars are restricted for horsepower/torque. That's why. So the extra weight for 2 extra pistons/rods/block/crank is usless when they can already get 500HP from a 4 banger.

rarson

That's not a JGTC car. Toyota runs the 1UZ in the JGTC, a V8, not a 4-cylinder.

That Top Secret car is a shop car built for top speed.

PBB

In JGTC/Super GT, Toyota used to run the 2JZ in the GT500 (500 bhp) class, now replaced by the 1UZ. The 3S-GTE was used in the GT300 (300 bhp) class Supras. Rather big difference...

psychot|K

I didn't say the Top Secret car was a JGTC car.
The car I'm talking about was the 'old school' Castrol Supra.

psychot|K

Correct.