Ford 3.7L V6 fc
 

Yes let's start the debate on if it's possible as I am currently working on sourcing parts.
Dimensions of the V6 are as follows:
Width:28-29"
Height:24" or so I'll have to recheck
Length: 24" measured from firewall to furthest motor part.
Oil pan: L shaped, less than 2" @ front and maxes 6" in the lump
Other info: distance between the frame rails are almost exactly the same between the fc and a 2012 Ford F150 V6
The v6 is supposedly 366lbs according to http://www.mustangandfords.com/how-to/engine/mmfp-1006-2011-ford-mustang-37l-v6-engine/
And the na 13b is supposedly 337 wet according to http://www.gomog.com/allmorgan/engineweights.html
29lb increase on the front end with almost double the HP and a significant gain in mpg.

Well if its any help I have a 3.7 I am in the process of swapping into a NA miata. The engine is actually lighter than you think...supposedly it weighs in at a touch over 300lbs without accesories, but I have yet to verify that myself. Alao...total height is 28"...it doesnt fit well in the Miata chasis...now that I have a 7 I may well rethink this and put it in there instead...much more room for everything.

Sweet. I have continued to do more research and I'm almost 90% sure the fwd cyclones will bolt on to the mt82 if you have that steel starter plate and a f150/stang intake manifold. My current choice is between a $450 3.7 or a $1100 3.5w/turbos.

If you plan on modifying the engine, I DONT reccomend the ecoboost 3.5l. For example....if you need more fuel...you HAVE to add secondary fuel injectors...and the only manifold you can add injector bungs to is the FWD ecoboost(it will bolt up to the MT82 btw) intake manifold...its aluminum and has room for bungs, but its VERY tall and extra injectors would make it even taller. The RWD ecoboost manifold is the shortest of all available manifolds...but you cant add extra injectors unless you add them right behind the throttle body ala TBI injection(not a very good option...but I guess it wouldnt hurt since those injectors would only be needed at high boost anyway where the extra airflow would atomize the extra fuel anyway). Direct injection is a PITA to modify, I would rather turbocharge the 3.7L...for the cost difference between a 3.5t and a 3.7l you could pick up a couple turbos. Once boosted I am sure a 3.7 would make more power than an ecoboost anyway...you could safely run 10psi or so...which would put you solidly above 400HP. Another advantage to turbocharging the 3.7l is that you could chose to run a remote mount turbo system for better weight distribution. Both the 3.5 and the 3.7 are great engines...but for my money, the 3.7 was the better choice. Let me know if you need any measurements, I have the 3.7 with a MT82. I also have the ecoboost 3.5l intake manifold...as well as the 3.7l(the 3.5l manifold bolts to the 3.7l heads, but lacks fuel injector bungs...you might be able to fit them if you used a 3/4 adapter plate. The height difference between the 3.5 manifold and the 3.7l manifold is 1.5"(3.5 being shorter).

I wonder if the FWD intake will clear the firewall or if I can run some intercooler piping through there from a remote turbo. I'm thinking: remote turbo, 2 liquid to air intercoolers stored conveniently in those two cubbys, intercooler piping run through a rollcage.

Whether it clears the firewall depends on how far you space the engine off the firewall. Also..the engine weight you quoted was for the turbo version...the non turbo weighs in just a little over 300lbs from what I have read(have yet to hook mine to a fish scale to find out). I guess the question you need to ask first is how much power you are planning to make. The duratec is a capable platform...non direct injected turbo versions(like they used in the Noble M12) make north of 400HP with less displacement than the duratec 35 and 37. In the Ginetta G60 the 3.7l makes 310 HP from the NA 3.7. I believe they run a Haltech engine management system. People routinely make 350HP out of the 3.7 once adding longtubes, x pipe, intake etc.(the usual intake header exhaust(IHE)). If you are shooting for 500HP...either the 3.7 or the 3.5 will get you there(assuming the 3.7 is boosted) though the 3.5t will do it without touching the internals(I suspect the 3.7 would as well, but dont know for sure). I tend to find 300HP is more than enough for a car weighing in under 3000lbs(10:1 power to weight ratio) for the street, but some people like to drive monsters around...I prefer OEM reliability for a daily driver myself.

I will probably leave the motor stockish for a year or so with maybe a reflash for better mpg at lower rpms.
I'd want to get used to the cars handling with added weight. I'm betting the 8.8 I'd have to use will probably weigh more than the stock na unit I have.

The Ford 8.8 IRS weighs 80lbs for an iron case version(tbird, cougar) or 70lbs for an aluminum case version(explorer, cobra, 2013+mustang). I have a Tbird version for the Miata...3.23 gearing LSD(roughly the same gearing as a 2015 mustang V6 with the performance package, just a hair higher...performance package uses a 3.31, normal 2015 mustang v6 uses a 2.87 I think). It still didnt answer the question though...eventual HP goals?

N/a goal would be 300rwhp with 30-40mpg as it would become my new daily driver. Turbocharged or maybe centrifugal supercharged 435-500hp with min 30mph highway. I'm thinking with the variable valve timing and a supercharger it wouldn't be hard to make it a Miller cycle engine.

Better off with a turbo(or twins) than a supercharger...especially if MPG is your goal. Either engine will get you there...but the 3.5t is unlikely to fit between the rails with the turbos in stock location. If you were planning on relocating them to a remote mount setup that may work. Just remember the limitations of direct injection and the lack of aftermarket injectors for it. You might well be able to get away with 2 large post throttle body injectors for extra fuel though. Engine management is the next issue. Do you plan on running the stock ECU or something else? The stock ECU is a huge PITA requiring the ECU, the cluster, the fuse box, the ignition switch, the key, and the ECU, the drive by wire pedal...along with all associated wiring harnesses. The PATS(passive anti theft system) requires all those modules to allow the car to start(gotta love CAN communications and the decentralized computer logic it allows). As far as aftermarket standalone systems...you have Haltec which I know works because of the Ginetta G60. Megasquirt 3 with a ms3x card will work as well...but to get the VVT working, you have a lot of inputs and outputs....the crank sensor plus 4 cam angle sensors...all of which require their own VR conditioner circuit. You have the usual MAP, CLT, and IAT sensors. Then you need 4 PWM outputs for the cam phasers, 6 ignition outputs for the COPs, etc. Now you dont really need everything to get it running...you can add the VVT stuff later...but you will be down on power until you do.

I had taken ms3 as my choice aftermarket engine management option with a factory harness.
I am going to keep a stockish 300hp till I can afford a new corolla or 07-09 Lexus is250

I had taken ms3 as my choice aftermarket engine management option with a factory harness.
I am going to keep a stockish 300hp till I can afford a new corolla or 07-09 Lexus is250

3.7L Cyclone with 6R80 6-speed auto
 

Just so you know....
Ill do a build thread in a little while but for now here's a teaser

Wow, that looks like it fits even worse than it does in the Miata
Attachment 620358
Of course...I did have to lower the steering rack 2.75" for decent fitment in the miata...and its still 2.5" above the hoodline

Yes Sir!
I have just lowered my subframe a bit so it's a little better.

93gs,

How's your wiring coming? Have you programmed your ecu yet?

Not yet...wiring and MS aettings are the easy part....I just now reached the point I can make engine mounts. It was an insane amount of cutting. Even the starter location gave me a headache...had to make a pocket for it to sit in.Attachment 620269
The FC makes for a much easier chasis to work with.

Wow! That's a ton of work. I just bought some engine mounts from American Muscle and made
pedestals to the subframe.

I also changed the angle of the radiator about 10-15 degrees or so.

In addition I added 3/4" subframe spacers for a little hood clearance.
Cutting out the subframe bolts was absolutely the hardest job of the install thus far.

Does MS stand for MegaSquirt???
or are you using the factory ecu?

Yes MS is for megasquirt, though I am not using anything yet....I dont feel like dealing with the PATS nightmare newer Fords come with so the plan is Megasquirt 3 Pro...or maybe just a fully enabled MS3 with the MS3X card(you need every input and output you can get to run an engine with 4 cam sensors and 4 cam phasers)

I'm going to use the factory ecu.
I'll let you know how it goes and have details if you go that way.
I'm using the 6-speed 6R80, so it's gotta happen.
So far it's very nice. The engine harness it's one plug to the ecu and one plug interlink to trans, one plug from trans to ecu, and I'm using the factory fuse box for the body harness.
The body harness includes obd2, pedal, shifter, and more.

There are a lot of modules you need to get past PATS, you need the fusebox, the ECU, the drive by wire pedal assembly, and the cluster, as well as the ignition switch(for the transponder ring) and a key that is matched to the ECU you are using, along with harnesses to connect it all. You probably need the entire emmissions system as well to not throw any codes. I have the 2 engine harnesses, and after looking at all the weight I would add with all those modules...and the fact I cant fit the mustang cluster in the Miata dash right now I am leaning toward MS...but that could change if someone has a nice writeup on working around PATS.

ECU is on it's way back from HP Tuners!
PATS Deleted!!
I'll keep you updated. There are still some items to finish before I can get close to start up.

If HP can really delete PATS and the need for all the additional modules, I will rethink using megasquirt myself...I will be interested in seeing the results. Also...it would allow the engine harness to be minimized...because right now its a monster of a harness.

Glad to see someone actually pushing this build forward. I get my engine next month >.< so excited

I might rethink MS as well if they can delete PATS.

I checked the miata na and nb engine bay dimensions before I bought a shell and ended up choosing the fc after I came up on a cheap one out of no where. I have pictures on my laptop I'll upload after work. Basically picked up a 90 fc with a "rebuilt" na 13b for $800.

Can't wait to see.

Attachment 620066
Attachment 620067
Attachment 620068
replaced the single piston calipers with 4 piston calipers. O'rilly's took the single calipers as cores for the quads, lol. also got the calipers @ $30 a piece.
Attachment 620069
missing that little bump guard plastic, other than that the shell is near perfect.
Attachment 620070
supposidly rebuilt 13b. I did a compression test and got 60 on the rear and 90 on the front. That was cold with no oil in the combustion chamber though... I have since put the motor back in the car. Hope to find time to put everything back together and get her running as a backup in the event my 260k mi Corolla gives me any issues. Got a local who wants to buy the motor when I start my swap. Funny thing is he'll probably give me more for the 13b than what I have got my 3.7l price quoted for($375+tax):lol:

$375? Damn, I miss living in FL, cheap parts everywhere...my duratec 37 cost me $1200...same for the MT82...but then to be fair they did come from a 10k mile wrecked mustang too.

That's great. $375! That is a steal and one of the good things about this motor their not considered
high performance like the 5.0 but making 305hp and 30+mpg that's high output for sure.

It'll be nice not to have a dinosaur in my car anymore. Some have said,"Why are you ditching the rotary"? And I say "until Mazda makes a new one, I'll enjoy a little technology for a while".

I too have not come out of pocket for my swap. However, like you, I am using my own labor.

Yes I paid $2400 for both the 3.7 and the 6R80.

I was quoted about $1200 for the 35 W/ turbos.... Mt82 will be $600+975 I'm going full budget on this na build. Just enough to get me driving. I'll use my phone as a mph guage and I have a netbook I am going to dismantle and hard wire into the dash for engine information.

Aside from cost, the 3.5L is too much work with the direct injection being the limiting factor.
The 3.7 is everywhere and in everything including base f 150 s.
The guys over here at Limitless Performance (LPFbuilt.com) are doing some amazing stuff,
including the 3.7L v6. You can see a tiny bit of the Killer 6 mustang out there on youtube.

Attempted to start her up. We got all power, accelerator/throttle body responded, we got spark.
Unfortunately, the injectors were not responding.
With some carb spray we got some sign of life though. It seems as if were still in the beta testing
for the "standalone" programming. ...Stay tuned.

Its not initial startup and running I would be worried about tuning with megasquirt...should be fairly easy to make it run...just like any other v6 using a 36-1 wheel. The real fun begins when you start playing with the cam sensors and cam phasers to try to make the factory 300HP out of it. I wish I wasnt working 6 days a week right now...I would love to get back to work on the Miata.

Just to clarify, I'm the guy using the factory pcm. I agree with the statement regarding Megasquirt though. I want factory engine controls and this is the reason I went this way.

Cheers

Ah...you said standalone programming. Wonder why the injectors werent firing, I think its still some residual issue from PATs..such a PITA system.

Just figured out injector power and she starts but dies right away.
One more step closer.

Running!
Making turbo kit, begins today.

Just to clarify you took a factory 3.7l ECU, sent it to a tuner who was able to delete PATS? What all is required? ECU obviously...and the drive by wire pedal...both engine harnesses? Did you have to use the fusebox and cluster? I want more details on exactly what is needed.

Yes, we used the factory PCM(ecu), we sent it to Eric at HP Tuners who deleted the pats and whatever magic he did.
We are using the Factory PCM, drive-by-wire pedal from mustang, Engine harness is untouched. I am using the
6R80 auto trans. So you will need the harness to go with that. The trans harness has many things in it that need
to be utilized and I'm sure it's the same in the standard trans as well.
I also have the shifter from a 2011 Lincoln MKZ. you can use a mustang shifter but the mkz cuts down nicely and fits in the
FC3S shifter hole clearing the driveshaft, again this is an auto shifter mechanism.

Lastly, where all the difficult work comes into play, you'll need the fuse box and all wires that are in the Mustang
engine bay. My salvage yard cut the harness just as it goes into the fire wall on the drivers firewall leaving the
brake fluid level harness last on my harness. This proved to be an issue since I needed the harness to the pedal
and shifter and the OBD2. SO I had to go back and buy these pigtails from them at a premium. So, avoid this and
get the entire fuse box harness intact as best as possible.

More details to come.

Did you end up having to use the cluster? Thats the sticking point for me...I cant make it fit the Miata cluster housing worth anything...so if I dont have to use it, this would be a great solution. I would only have to buy the fuse box(and associated harness), ECU and drive by wire pedal...I already have the other harnesses.

No the cluster is not necessary.
I am however using an Acura Integra Speedo movement and keeping the
Factory appearance.

http://www.norotors.com/index.php?topic=199.0 Go half way down the page to see it installed with the FC faceplate.
But if you have an electrical Speedo in the Miata, then you should be good.

my car is at LPFbuilt.com
 

Turbo Teaser

Killin me >.< waiting on my tax return to start me swap. My brother has a 95 Lexus ls400 and I have been thinking about the 1uzfe swap but am still swaying for the 3.7 originality.

Got some real good progress last night.
Unfortunately, SEMA will delay the project about another week.
Just need to finish the downpipe and wastegate.
In the meanwhile, these pics should keep you glued.

So what was it that stopped you from mounting the engine lower in the FC chasis? It looks from the pics like you might have been able to drop it another inch or so.

Steering rack is only 1/4 from the oil pan.
I would have to relocate the rack and bump steer would have been unavoidable.
I could have cut the firewall and moved the engine back more, but this is my daily driver and
not a racecar.
I did however, lower the subframe 7/8 of an inch. What I considered a good compromise.