Another SR20DET'd RX7
07-23-04, 12:10 AM
#26
Lives on the Forum
Originally Posted by JoeZoom
You are correct, however, the 20B swap involves much more $$$ and it still will not be any more reliable than a 12A, 13B, etc.
And I do not even want to think about the rebuild costs of a 20B.
And I do not even want to think about the rebuild costs of a 20B.
It should be cheaper, as it's running a $1,000+ OS Giken triple plate clutch in it (overkil).
To add the stock turbos would've been a matter of adding an FMIC.
We're shooting for $10,000 for something that makes between 600 and 700hp at the ground.
Yes, replacing apex seals is going to hurt.
With the advent of aftermarket apex seals prices, at least you have another option versus $50+ per from Mazda.
I realize that "cheap" V8 rebuild kits abound, but if were talking about 500hp+ range, the costs does rise significantly - at least $1,000, if not more like $2,000?
Now don't get me wrong, I love the rotary and I will have another, however, this will only be when they either get the rebuild costs "down to earth", make them more reliable or when I have money like ol' Jimlab. (no offense Jim)
The big cost is still the apex seals, but places like Atkins and Hayes offer their seals for like half the cost?
That makes for $400 for a complete set for the 20B?
If we're talking about a full rebuild replacing all seals, then yes, I agree - the cost form the Mazda dealer is going to kill.
But I think I know a thing or two about rebuilds to know what can be reused and what needs to be replaced.
-Ted
07-23-04, 12:34 AM
#27
Lives on the Forum
Originally Posted by Crash Test Joey
Ok so maybe not 1/4. But I doubt it has MUCH more than 150 lbs/ft. Probably more like 1/3 of the V8
193lb-ft, no turbos
Turbo'd the motor is going to be close to what V8 does.
Stroke'd and with the proper cam, the V8 is going to be untouchable, but at 600 to 700hp range, are you really going to feel the difference?
You seem to have missed the point. Exactly where on the option sheet do you check off to buy the "soul" of an RX7? Certainly it's listed there somewhere, since it's so often talked about. I was making fun of a dumbass comment with another one. Read the rest of that post.
I not really against V8 swaps either.
Whatever floats your boat, right?
What irks me is the low-ball figures that are being dropped about these swaps.
Yeah, I guess a carb'd V8 would be "cheap", but unless you have a welder and lots of metal handy, it's still going to cost you considerable money.
An SR20 (subject) is not what I call a "better" swap, IMO.
The 13BT is comparable to what an SR20 can do.
-Ted
07-23-04, 05:58 PM
#28
Zero Rotor Motorsports
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If I could have rebuilt my rotary, I would have. I never planned on swapping the engine when I bought the car. I was going to use it as a daily driver that looked sporty enough and wan't the POS Bonneville I had at the time.
The rotary lasted 10 miles and gave up the ghost. Even after that bit of frustration, I ordered a rebuild kit ($675) and pulled the engine. Problem turned out to be that the apex seals had disintegrated to the point of digging holes in the rotors and housings. So basically all I had were accessories and at best the eccentric shaft. Everything else was broken. So for me, a V8 was significantly cheaper than buying all the necessary parts to put another rotary together.
My V8 conversion parts cost less than $1000 for everything, and about $1000 more for a junk bottom end, a set of used heads, and a new cam/lifter set. Another $750 for my carb, $400 for a trans and for less than $4000 I have a reliable, streetable car that puts out over 400hp and 450lbs/ft of torque on 87 octane gas. It's got a hydraulic roller cam so I don't even have to adjust the valves. I've done some other stuff with it that cost extra but it was not required, I did it because I could.
I wish everyone who runs a 20B luck - if I knew enough about them I would want to try it myself just because. But rotaries scare me, based on my experience alone. Well, that and the number of "How many miles before YOUR engine blew up" threads on here. Something about everyone listing their "reliability mods" whenever they sell their car just doesn't sit right with me.
The rotary lasted 10 miles and gave up the ghost. Even after that bit of frustration, I ordered a rebuild kit ($675) and pulled the engine. Problem turned out to be that the apex seals had disintegrated to the point of digging holes in the rotors and housings. So basically all I had were accessories and at best the eccentric shaft. Everything else was broken. So for me, a V8 was significantly cheaper than buying all the necessary parts to put another rotary together.
My V8 conversion parts cost less than $1000 for everything, and about $1000 more for a junk bottom end, a set of used heads, and a new cam/lifter set. Another $750 for my carb, $400 for a trans and for less than $4000 I have a reliable, streetable car that puts out over 400hp and 450lbs/ft of torque on 87 octane gas. It's got a hydraulic roller cam so I don't even have to adjust the valves. I've done some other stuff with it that cost extra but it was not required, I did it because I could.
I wish everyone who runs a 20B luck - if I knew enough about them I would want to try it myself just because. But rotaries scare me, based on my experience alone. Well, that and the number of "How many miles before YOUR engine blew up" threads on here. Something about everyone listing their "reliability mods" whenever they sell their car just doesn't sit right with me.
07-23-04, 06:22 PM
#29
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Originally Posted by Tofuball
The Dodge Omni GLH-S spoke for itself.
Carol Shelby was in some interesting projects.
If I had to put a 20B into something, I'd drop it into a mazda 323.
Carol Shelby was in some interesting projects.
If I had to put a 20B into something, I'd drop it into a mazda 323.
07-28-04, 03:54 AM
#30
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Originally Posted by jthompson02
take that engine out and put a Rotary back in. Whats the point of owning a 7 if it doesnt have a soul ?
Funniest thing I've heard in a while.
08-10-04, 09:59 AM
#31
Twin Turbo LSX
Originally Posted by Crash Test Joey
Well, that and the number of "How many miles before YOUR engine blew up" threads on here. Something about everyone listing their "reliability mods" whenever they sell their car just doesn't sit right with me.
08-10-04, 10:11 AM
#32
Twin Turbo LSX
Originally Posted by 240Z TwinTurbo
Please don't hate me for not using the rotary. You may remember the SR20DET'd FD. I built the manifolds and most of the crossmember stuff on that car. Take a look under the projects section of my website.
www.SpeedShopThagard.com
I have recently purchased an 87 GXL for $200 in very good shape and will be doing this swap again. I have 2x GT25R turbochargers and a 24"x12"x4.5" Garrett intercooler for it. BTW, I can get you large Garrett intercooler cores for cheap ~$350 and also very good deals on new Garrett turbochargers including GT turbochargers.
Anyway, I have a few specific questions and I have done a search already. Will adding a Kaaz LSD be sufficient for 600hp@wheels? Do I need to upgrade the axles as well?
Who makes a front air dam that will allow me to mount this large intercooler? BTW, I ran across some pics on this site of a black FC with large front mount and cool looking low profile rear spoiler, but cannot seem to find the pics again. The car was beautiful and had some nice looking rims. Thanks for the help and I will update as I make slow progress.
www.SpeedShopThagard.com
I have recently purchased an 87 GXL for $200 in very good shape and will be doing this swap again. I have 2x GT25R turbochargers and a 24"x12"x4.5" Garrett intercooler for it. BTW, I can get you large Garrett intercooler cores for cheap ~$350 and also very good deals on new Garrett turbochargers including GT turbochargers.
Anyway, I have a few specific questions and I have done a search already. Will adding a Kaaz LSD be sufficient for 600hp@wheels? Do I need to upgrade the axles as well?
Who makes a front air dam that will allow me to mount this large intercooler? BTW, I ran across some pics on this site of a black FC with large front mount and cool looking low profile rear spoiler, but cannot seem to find the pics again. The car was beautiful and had some nice looking rims. Thanks for the help and I will update as I make slow progress.
From the looks of your site, you have done some nice work. I think some respect is due from the rotards. I've seen shawn's SR20 FD in person and it was a very clean setup. Next time you run into shawn, tell him bryan with the back ls1 rx7 from jacksonville said hi. I haven't seen him at the track in awhile.
Back on topic: A clutch style LSD from a 87 or 88 Turbo II should hold up decently. They also fit the later 3rd gen casing. I'm looking to make 600rwhp on pump gas with a mild turbo v8 and are going to see how long it lasts. When I break it, I'll explore other options.
In a second gen I would imagine the axles will need to be upgraded. I know they do in 3rd generation rx-7's. Check with some of the v8 guys on www.torquecentral.com. I'm not positive but I could have sworn there were some guys running 9's on stock rears and axles.
Lastly. Very nice work on the ZR1. They've always been a favorite of mine. To build a twin turbo ZR1 would be a dream. Well not that my turbo v8 rx7 sucks or anything.
Good luck and keep us up to date on your progress.
Last edited by 1point3liter; 08-10-04 at 10:34 AM.
08-10-04, 11:40 AM
#33
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Originally Posted by RETed
232hp at the wheels, DynoJet
Yeah, I guess a carb'd V8 would be "cheap", but unless you have a welder and lots of metal handy, it's still going to cost you considerable money.
-Ted
Yeah, I guess a carb'd V8 would be "cheap", but unless you have a welder and lots of metal handy, it's still going to cost you considerable money.
-Ted
Oh...I'm not into carbs though....Not since my '77 datsun 200sx.
08-11-04, 03:43 AM
#34
Rotary Freak
Originally Posted by jthompson02
take that engine out and put a Rotary back in. Whats the point of owning a 7 if it doesnt have a soul ?
600hp at the engine is supposedly nearing the limit of the SR20DET. The SR20DET is known as one of the most radically overengineered 4-cyl. engines in the world.
08-11-04, 08:00 AM
#35
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Thank you for the kind words "1point3liter." I have no dealings with Shawn and Upgrade any longer. As I stated I opted not to use the SR20DET in favor of the 2.7L 3RZ motor. Currently, I am finishing my 240Z TwinTurbo as I just swapped in a powerglide. I will make a few 10sec passes and then sell the car to finance the 3RZ powered FC. The FC is much like the 240Z so it is really the body style that attracts me to the car, not the motor. I just need something a bit more modern than a 1973 240Z. I need ac and power steering for my old age. BTW, I got my new turbo a few weeks back. I got rid of the twin GT25R turbochargers and purchased the MONSTER GT42R. Somewhat difficult to come by so I snatched it while I had the chance. Here is a pic of it next to my son's head. It has a 5" inlet and 4" v-band outlet and this version flows 85lbs/min, but folks have been able to generate 1000hp with this turbo. Again, I am looking for an honest/reliable 600-650@wheels.
08-17-04, 03:30 AM
#37
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the sr20 is a good engine and makes plenty of good power with the right mods to the outside...my v8 swap cost under 5k and that's only becuause i couldn't do it myself and i didn't stay stock with some of the parts....the 3rz is great too...isn't it all aluminum...i think they came with a supercharger as an option and put out a healthy number the 7's unibody is much stronger than the z's....i think it has something to do with the rounded door and hatch designs....???...anyway....unique is always better than "just another one of those" type cars....good luck....
