JesterJess

digital... I will scale it once I get it driveable.

Jesse

Nihilanthic

Ive heard quotes that its basically 5-15 lbs less than a 302, and we've seen 302 swaps end up 50/50, or 49/51 before And with esslingers head you can drop even more weight off of it. Also, esslingers head flows more than enough out of the box for anything youd want to ever do with a 2.3T, especially if you utilize a holset with its sky high pressure ratios.

Now, for those of us who dont care about weight (or are more interested in headflow) you can actually port a turbo iron D-port head to outflow an esslinger d-port stock and unported (250 cfm vs about 209), just ask Boport on turboford. And, Im pretty sure that would be cheaper than a new aluminum d-port head from esslinger.

Nihilanthic

Hmm.. cant edit so Ill make a new post.

The pully seems to not fit... based on where it is on those pics, does anyone here know of a hood that the aftermarkets made that would fit? Would a T-II be far enough forwards to clear? Or would you have to do a custom cowl or faux scoop to allow for clearance?

Damn, shoulda figured thered be at least one snag with this swap. Im hoping the hood reinforcements could be notched and have it just clear the outer 'shell' but its not like ***** ever that easy.

widebody2

Same engine with a holset hx35w turbo and nothing but junkyard parts...lowest I saw was 12.39 but he claims 11s are on the way. This site is hilarious. I would go with that turbo over the 25g
http://msvorinich.itgo.com/Jan0703.html

Narfle

iTrader: (16)

a ford 2.3t FC wouldbe an awesome grassroots 2007 car.

Nihilanthic

Ive actually considered doing that. Still am depending on how cheap I can find c/overs and t-ii brakes, lol.

Holset HX35w + 2.3t + megasquirt = cheap, fast, reliable, but bye bye tires.

That said, the best idea I can think of for clearance for the pully would be a scoop like waht this guy setup: https://www.rx7club.com/forum/showthread.php?t=527613

Though for GRM id just notch the hood and say 'fuckit'. Looks schmooks.

JesterJess

I'm not running that, that's ghetto as hell.

Nihilanthic

It aint finished/painted, just an option. I dont like bodywork either.

Id probably have to get someone to do it professionally and repaint it so it flows smoothly.

JesterJess

Dang it, I thought Jim was here helping out with some info, but he is hackin on Ni...

Ni, if you are going to do a V8 swap anyways, why even waste all of the time doing a 2.3 swap. It is a TON easier doing the V8 swap, and you can go carb, and have absolutely NO worries.

This 2.3 swap is not easy, it is very time intensive, and takes some skillz....

JesterJess

Ni,
I shot some pics tonight that you asked for. It seems we are about 3 inches short.... Man, the story of my life... I am going to finish clearancing the hood for the cam pulley, and will be using an Eclipse style ofset bubble on the hood to fit the intake and throttle body under. Those hit the hood definatley. If you went with a stock over the valve cover intake, I think it will clear with minor clearancing required.

Jesse

JesterJess

Here you go, a shot of the fender side, showing how much sticks up past the top of the fender.

Also are some other misc pics.

Nihilanthic

Thanks! seems the pully will clear, thankfully. This is encouraging.

Sorry the rotated intake wont... but at least I dont see any of the alternator poking its head out, so if you moved the alternator and used a custom intake it shouldnt interfere. Go figure, the pass-over intake works on easter monday.

Guess it is kinda cool the stock intake would clear all along if you wanted to do PS and AC, too. Something Im definitely considering for a florida car. I just wonder how much flow that TB can support.

Anyway, thanks!

JesterJess

Ni,
Don't get all excited yet. If you look to the left of the IAC motor, you will see the alt pulley. About 1/3 of the alt is above the hood line. You could relocate it, and use a stock upper and it would probably work for you. I want to use the rotated upper, so I have to make this work.

I'll keep you posted.

Also, I got my clutch last night, so I will be installing the drivetrain pretty soon.

owen is fat

wow, skinny motor but it sems pretty tall.
is the trans pretty nice for those motors or is it a truck-like trans thats not too smooth?

nice work on the swap

JesterJess

Trans is awesome. You have to me on a mission to break a T-5, strong like a Turbo II Tranny. It is smooth once you get a feel for it. The gears are "gated", so you have to work with it to get a good feel for where the gears are.

Thanks for the compliment.
Jesse

Nihilanthic

Hmm... Ill have to move the alternator then. No biggie.

Owen - well, its a SOHC inline-4 motor. We havent checked into mounting it lower, Ill probably check on that when I do it. Modifying the merkur mount extensions would probably be pretty easy, but Im not sure about clearance to the rack or oilpan to ground clearance.

Jess, when youre working on the clutch, couldja give us a look?

And thanks for pointing out my oversight regarding the alternator. Guess grant didnt have the accessories on when he made the mounts.

JesterJess

Ni,
I tired to relocate the alt to the pass lower, but decided not to when I decided to go with the 120 degree rotated upper.
I certainly will keep everyone posted with the clutch and tranny mounting.

Owen, you can not mount it lower, as my pan is already resting on the cross member.

shm21284

Nihilanthic, I am ashamed with you. You have told GTORX7 personally that you intend to road race this car. Now, have you considered your polar moment of inertia? In a road race car, it is preferrable to have the engine behind the front axle line for a number of reasons.

1) It creates a good weight distribution

2) All of the weight lying in front of the front axle line increases your polar moment of inertia and will cause undesirable effects in handling, such as heavy understeer, etc. Although, in drifting, it seems to help.

3) Having the rotating mass (engine/drivetrain) closer to the center of the vehicle is best for reducing your polar moment of inertia.

Consider your photographs of engine placement:



with that of a 13b:



note that the axle line on the 13b is accross the front cover, where the ford 2.3 is 1/4-1/3 of the way down the block. Just thought I'd point that out.

One other thing, the 13B REW takes 600+ hp without any internal mods. No, the stock turbos or cooling systems dont support it. It costs $1800 for a long block, harness, tranny, turbos, etc, running, from japan (JSPEC). Sell the turbos, ecu, tranny, harness, and you've made 6-800 back. Or, keep all that **** and push the turbos to their ~400hp limit.

Nihilanthic

Right... Im telling the mods.

JesterJess

shm,
If you take a look at the other pic I posted, you will se that thi pic that you posted appears to have the engine further forward.
When I shot a pic from the side, the strut mount runs straight through #1 cylinder. You can move them back futher on an All Out race car (removing the wipers), but mine is a street car, and I need the wipers.

Jesse

Nihilanthic

Something Id like to point out is my plans for this project were to remain cost effective and only focus on big gains. While I will admit that shavings do make a pile, focusign so blindly on getting an engine behind the axle or that vaunted 50/50 or (or 49/51 or whatever) weight distribution is a case of tunnel vision on one specific part of the car.

The power/weight, chassis tuning, and tires matter a lot more than static weight distribution. Especially in a car that will primarily be used for street driving, amateur auto-x and amateur track racing. Yeah, I could shove it back even farther and remove the wiper motors or whatever, but theres no need to. Any change in handling ID gain from that would be minimal and currently not worth the effort and cost, both in money and streetabiltiy.

Furthermore, Its most likely already 50/50, or a few% one way or the other. Almost all of the engine remains behind the front axle, plus the transmission behind it means the C.O.G. is very far back. Im sure that 10th A.E. with a LT1 thats *** heavy has been brought up plenty of times before, so why not do it again? Oh, and Owens LS1 FC is 53/47 and still handles excellently. Wanna drag more people into the fray?

Sure, on paper focusing on weight distro seems important. But in practice, thats not always the case. Just like with VTEC vs static cam timing, OHC vs OHV, yadda yadda yadda. Those LS1s are still spanking the **** out of N/A hondas with the exception of full race motors, in street trim, pushrods and all.

And, btw, its still cheaper to work with a 2.3. Its good stock to 400 whp internally, and much easier to find and much cheaper to work on.

So, yeah, for my purposes a 2.3 is a better idea. Cheaper, just as powerful, more plentiful and reliable, and any gains I'd get working with a 13B would only be cost effective in a full race situation, which Im not building for nor planning to enter. Im making this as a street car with cheap parts and cheap shortblocks that are HERE, not in japan or in rotary shops.

Get it? Got it? Good.

Nihilanthic

Heres a cookie. You finally got it!

SPEED_NYC

iTrader: (3)

this is a nice swap. i always like to see ppl use thier creativity, even if it does involve pistons......
on another note, this is a forum for ppl to exchange info and ideas. lets keep the **** talking to a minimum and all play nice so i dont have to police this thread and start deleting posts.

thanx

shm21284

I never did say 50/50 was ideal, did I? Oh, and a few percent here and there makes a HUGE difference. You get your weight balancing correct, then you tune your chassis/suspension.

You also say you could push your engine back even more. Couldn't I do the same?

I do have one relevant question. How long does the 2.3 last on 400whp with no internal mods? how much boost on what turbo are you running to get it? just wondering.

digitalsolo

iTrader: (2)

...you have to be on a mission to break a T5? Are you being sarcastic, or just really confused?