Rotary Beetle Update
10-12-07, 04:35 AM
#27
Adolf Hitler Verfechter
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Very interesting info!
I`am using of all of them believe me!
Teddy: On a beetle is not quite drop in.You will see in the pics that i had to cut the centre piece,to get the engine to go in,and this was will all the pulleys,and waterpump removed.The 13B is a bit more difficult than a 12,which just slides in!
Little update :
Got the calipers for the discs in front. Golf 2 GTI calipers ,with Ceramic Brake pads.
So this weekend i will finish the front brake conversion,and if all goes well start on the new fuel line i will be putting in.
Another thing:The oil cooler finally came after 2 weeks of waiting. Its not quite what i was hoping (sp?) for,but it will have to do for now.The ref can standing there is a 1 liter Yogurt tub (2.2 lbs).Might have to ad a fan to it.Luckilly there is a oil temp gauge
Here are some pics.
Karis
I`am using of all of them believe me!
Teddy: On a beetle is not quite drop in.You will see in the pics that i had to cut the centre piece,to get the engine to go in,and this was will all the pulleys,and waterpump removed.The 13B is a bit more difficult than a 12,which just slides in!
Little update :
Got the calipers for the discs in front. Golf 2 GTI calipers ,with Ceramic Brake pads.
So this weekend i will finish the front brake conversion,and if all goes well start on the new fuel line i will be putting in.
Another thing:The oil cooler finally came after 2 weeks of waiting. Its not quite what i was hoping (sp?) for,but it will have to do for now.The ref can standing there is a 1 liter Yogurt tub (2.2 lbs).Might have to ad a fan to it.Luckilly there is a oil temp gauge
Here are some pics.
Karis
10-12-07, 11:07 AM
#28
Im not worried about the cutting part so thats coo.
On your brake conversion how much did you spend using the GTI setup? Was it a direct bolt using just the caliper and rotors or did you also have to buy the spindle back blate and fab some brackets up?
Looking good though bro looks nice
On your brake conversion how much did you spend using the GTI setup? Was it a direct bolt using just the caliper and rotors or did you also have to buy the spindle back blate and fab some brackets up?
Looking good though bro looks nice
10-14-07, 05:58 AM
#29
Adolf Hitler Verfechter
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Well the brakes in total is running about ZAR3000 so far.
Thats for the following:
Newly machined hubs.Golf 2 GTi Calipers.Crossdrilled Vented 9.4" Discs.Backing plates for the calipers,and hardware.Allso includes new hydraulic hoses.
It is basically a bolt on conversion.Yours will differ from mine,seeing that we didnt really get strut suspention on our beetles here.
Thanks for the kind words
karis
Thats for the following:
Newly machined hubs.Golf 2 GTi Calipers.Crossdrilled Vented 9.4" Discs.Backing plates for the calipers,and hardware.Allso includes new hydraulic hoses.
It is basically a bolt on conversion.Yours will differ from mine,seeing that we didnt really get strut suspention on our beetles here.
Thanks for the kind words
karis
10-14-07, 08:41 AM
#30
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Karis
Don't let that oil coller fool you. I have one from B&M that looks real similar but does have the fan. I would suggest the fan because when it kicks on not only does the oil temp go down so does the water temp. If I ever have overheating problems I'l put a second one of those in before I do somthing with the water system.
Hey Nov copy of hot VW has a rotary powered bug on it. Relly nice car.
I'm waiting for my 12a to come back from RX7 World getting a rebuild.
Kevin
Don't let that oil coller fool you. I have one from B&M that looks real similar but does have the fan. I would suggest the fan because when it kicks on not only does the oil temp go down so does the water temp. If I ever have overheating problems I'l put a second one of those in before I do somthing with the water system.
Hey Nov copy of hot VW has a rotary powered bug on it. Relly nice car.
I'm waiting for my 12a to come back from RX7 World getting a rebuild.
Kevin
10-15-07, 04:33 AM
#31
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Thanks for the vote of confidence Kevin,much appreciated.
The radiator is luckilly a serious one,so it should help with the cooling.I`am busy fitting a 10" fan to the oil cooler,to help with the temps.
Karis
The radiator is luckilly a serious one,so it should help with the cooling.I`am busy fitting a 10" fan to the oil cooler,to help with the temps.
Karis
10-15-07, 07:06 PM
#33
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I don't know how I missed this thread. Great work man! That header must have been a serious bitch to weld up. When I made mine for my 12A I just used some bends from RB and it still took forever. I'm on my 3rd rotary engine and 2nd transmission in my 74 1303 now. (13B - Porsche 901 transaxle).
I would suggest running a bar across the rear of the car hung off the bumper mounting points to bolt to the engine. I made all solid trans mounts and I am going to make a little rear sub frame to pick up the stock 13B engine mount point and help keep the whole thing in place.
Where are you running your cooling stuff? My first attempt was to run a jeep (11"X36") radiator up front tipped at a 45* angle with 2 10" fans. It worked but the piping was a mess! I decided to get all frankenstein on it and just hack the back up (nothin was happening in the back seat anyway).
My stock trans held up even with a kennedy 1700lb PP, the stock sachs disk did not however. I ripped the friction material right off the disk! I think the new motor will get a 2300lb PP and a copper head disk.
I would suggest running a bar across the rear of the car hung off the bumper mounting points to bolt to the engine. I made all solid trans mounts and I am going to make a little rear sub frame to pick up the stock 13B engine mount point and help keep the whole thing in place.
Where are you running your cooling stuff? My first attempt was to run a jeep (11"X36") radiator up front tipped at a 45* angle with 2 10" fans. It worked but the piping was a mess! I decided to get all frankenstein on it and just hack the back up (nothin was happening in the back seat anyway).
My stock trans held up even with a kennedy 1700lb PP, the stock sachs disk did not however. I ripped the friction material right off the disk! I think the new motor will get a 2300lb PP and a copper head disk.
Last edited by RXBeetle; 10-15-07 at 07:14 PM.
10-15-07, 08:16 PM
#34
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I was just curious.. All the mayhem you speak about- The two tranny's, three motor's and clutch damage- I'm taking it that it involved a lot more than street driving?
I was telling karis that I was told the oil in these cars is what controls the heat. this person said to never use the cheaper oil coolers. I put in a B&m unit with a thermo controlled fan. I used an RX7 rad upfront with 1 1/2 copper tubing to it.
[ATTACH]262253[/]
I was telling karis that I was told the oil in these cars is what controls the heat. this person said to never use the cheaper oil coolers. I put in a B&m unit with a thermo controlled fan. I used an RX7 rad upfront with 1 1/2 copper tubing to it.
[ATTACH]262253[/]
Last edited by nivekdodge; 06-22-08 at 07:07 PM.
10-16-07, 07:24 AM
#35
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I don't know how I missed this thread. Great work man! That header must have been a serious bitch to weld up. When I made mine for my 12A I just used some bends from RB and it still took forever. I'm on my 3rd rotary engine and 2nd transmission in my 74 1303 now. (13B - Porsche 901 transaxle).
I would suggest running a bar across the rear of the car hung off the bumper mounting points to bolt to the engine. I made all solid trans mounts and I am going to make a little rear sub frame to pick up the stock 13B engine mount point and help keep the whole thing in place.
Where are you running your cooling stuff? My first attempt was to run a jeep (11"X36") radiator up front tipped at a 45* angle with 2 10" fans. It worked but the piping was a mess! I decided to get all frankenstein on it and just hack the back up (nothin was happening in the back seat anyway).
My stock trans held up even with a kennedy 1700lb PP, the stock sachs disk did not however. I ripped the friction material right off the disk! I think the new motor will get a 2300lb PP and a copper head disk.
I would suggest running a bar across the rear of the car hung off the bumper mounting points to bolt to the engine. I made all solid trans mounts and I am going to make a little rear sub frame to pick up the stock 13B engine mount point and help keep the whole thing in place.
Where are you running your cooling stuff? My first attempt was to run a jeep (11"X36") radiator up front tipped at a 45* angle with 2 10" fans. It worked but the piping was a mess! I decided to get all frankenstein on it and just hack the back up (nothin was happening in the back seat anyway).
My stock trans held up even with a kennedy 1700lb PP, the stock sachs disk did not however. I ripped the friction material right off the disk! I think the new motor will get a 2300lb PP and a copper head disk.
I am planning to run the bar later on,but first it must just start up,and go around the block without it.I`am using a ALU radiator up front.Its a 3 core VW one,obviously new.It fits in,but just barely. I will be running 2 x 12" Fans.I have decided against the 10"`s.Will have to source the same ones in 12" that i have now in 10".Its SPAL fans from Italy with very fancy sleeves and so.
I`am trying to make mine as fun as possible.I must be able to haul passengers around as well(at alarming speeds,haha)
10-16-07, 07:30 AM
#36
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I was just curious.. All the mayhem you speak about- The two tranny's, three motor's and clutch damage- I'm taking it that it involved a lot more than street driving?
I was telling karis that I was told the oil in these cars is what controls the heat. this person said to never use the cheaper oil coolers. I put in a B&m unit with a thermo controlled fan. I used an RX7 rad upfront with 1 1/2 copper tubing to it.
[ATTACH]262253[/]
I was telling karis that I was told the oil in these cars is what controls the heat. this person said to never use the cheaper oil coolers. I put in a B&m unit with a thermo controlled fan. I used an RX7 rad upfront with 1 1/2 copper tubing to it.
[ATTACH]262253[/]
It wasnt cheap either.Cost more than both of the vw GTI calipers for the front,and the brake pads included!
Luckilly i have enough gauges to monitor everything.I will be able to see immedialty if something goes wrong,or the temp rises to high.
Edit : As you can see,the oil cooler has 25 rows!
Besides,ambient here only goes up to 105 F or so.hahaha
10-16-07, 03:51 PM
#37
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The first 12A was a junkyard pull, it lasted 2 days. One of which was spent "trying" to get the air bubbles to purge. Needless to say they didn't. 12A #2 was a champ. I knew a little more about what I was doing with tuning (rebuilt the Nikki, direct fire leading plugs). This was just enough to shred the clutch material due to some spirited high rpm shifting... 
I had already started major work on my original plan (13B + Megasquirt + Porsche 5speed + totally hidden cooling system) so I decided to just hang on to the good 12A as future project motor and just tear everything out.
A stock single side plate VW trans should hold up pretty well if you don't slam gears. I will eventually be throwing a turbo at my 13B, the 901 will be sufficient with the ~180hp NA setup but I'll be pushing its limits even with a mild turbo setup. The 901 has a very weak first gear setup. My plan is to run a boost cut in first gear.
As for cooling, all my info is based off the stock gauge (I have the stock RX7 gauge cluster in a fiberglass dash). But with the Jeep radiator and 2 cheap *** 10" eBay fans on a thermostat worked fine. I used the stock air to air oil cooler mounted under the top edge of the deck lid (no fan). I could do 100-mph down the freeway and cruised in a car cruise at ~2mph in the middle of August (90F+) for a good hour without any problems on the second motor. I used 1.5" copper line so I had a boat load of water volume to help too. It sounds like your setup will be more than adequate karism.
I had already started major work on my original plan (13B + Megasquirt + Porsche 5speed + totally hidden cooling system) so I decided to just hang on to the good 12A as future project motor and just tear everything out.
A stock single side plate VW trans should hold up pretty well if you don't slam gears. I will eventually be throwing a turbo at my 13B, the 901 will be sufficient with the ~180hp NA setup but I'll be pushing its limits even with a mild turbo setup. The 901 has a very weak first gear setup. My plan is to run a boost cut in first gear.
As for cooling, all my info is based off the stock gauge (I have the stock RX7 gauge cluster in a fiberglass dash). But with the Jeep radiator and 2 cheap *** 10" eBay fans on a thermostat worked fine. I used the stock air to air oil cooler mounted under the top edge of the deck lid (no fan). I could do 100-mph down the freeway and cruised in a car cruise at ~2mph in the middle of August (90F+) for a good hour without any problems on the second motor. I used 1.5" copper line so I had a boat load of water volume to help too. It sounds like your setup will be more than adequate karism.
10-20-07, 08:36 PM
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THe radiator can be run upfront somwhere. or i've seen two small ones on both sides in the back. Or move you package tray and use some fans there. Oil cooling is important. Use the factroy cooler or a quality replacement. not the ones that look like there off the back of the fridge,
Somebody did say they were using electrical conduit. Been there... It rusts so bad the bottom of my pipes were like mud.
Kevin
61 fibefab avenger
Somebody did say they were using electrical conduit. Been there... It rusts so bad the bottom of my pipes were like mud.
Kevin
61 fibefab avenger
10-22-07, 05:07 AM
#42
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Mild steel,or copper will probably be best.One has to make sure the conductivity of the pipes are allmost,or exactly the same as that of the engine.
Karis
10-29-07, 02:08 PM
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How do you manage to do the EFI system? Will you keep the stock ECU or go on with a standalone?
Some people seems to say that with the stock ecu, you absolutely need the original cluster form the rx7 otherwise the engine will only run in limp mode. I don't know if its true or not but that,s what I read
Some people seems to say that with the stock ecu, you absolutely need the original cluster form the rx7 otherwise the engine will only run in limp mode. I don't know if its true or not but that,s what I read
10-30-07, 03:04 AM
#45
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Update:
Brake conversion is finished!It now sports some lovely discs,and calipers,as well as new brake lines.
I started on the wiring of the EFI.Desided i will mount the ECU in the dog box.Closer,but not in the enginebay that way.Busy with the wiring off it now.
I`am will be running a standalone system with a Series 2 Rx7 dizzy,and some aftermarket ignitors.
Have allso decided that the oil cooler will go above the intake manifold.Only space i have for it.
Karis
Brake conversion is finished!It now sports some lovely discs,and calipers,as well as new brake lines.
I started on the wiring of the EFI.Desided i will mount the ECU in the dog box.Closer,but not in the enginebay that way.Busy with the wiring off it now.
I`am will be running a standalone system with a Series 2 Rx7 dizzy,and some aftermarket ignitors.
Have allso decided that the oil cooler will go above the intake manifold.Only space i have for it.
Karis
11-24-07, 12:21 PM
#46
Looks like I'm getting the KEP kit in a week or two. I can't wait to get to work on this thing. Part of my motivation to get it done soon is the inside is too cold to drive in 40°F weather. It will suck in freezing temps. Gotta put a heater core somewhere in the car.
11-26-07, 07:34 AM
#47
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Halo Friends.
Firstly :Jeff:thanks for being an inspiration to be.
I`am finally well enough again to do some work on the beetle.I have been in and out of bed for the last 10 days with a chest problem,allmost back to normal now and strong enough to work on the Beetle.
Yesterday I started putting in the EFI.Now this to me is very exciting,as this will be the change from old school,to Future.I have never worked on/driven a EFI Rotary in my life.Have allways sticked to the simple things,namely 48 IDA!haha.
I have sorted the wiring harness,and mounted the ECU.So tonight i will continue with the wiring,and hopefully have it finished in a day or so.The fuel pump is a whole different problem!
Next up will be the finishing off the exhaust.In the end it turns out that i cannot put a small resonator before the main silencer,as the just isnt enough space.
So Earplugs will be mandatory when driving it,hahahaha.(I`ll show those stupid Porsches (sp??) on the Circuit again this year.I WILL be louder again,hahaha)
Thats my small update for now.
Will have more frequent updates from now on.
Thanks for reading
Karis
Firstly :Jeff:thanks for being an inspiration to be.
I`am finally well enough again to do some work on the beetle.I have been in and out of bed for the last 10 days with a chest problem,allmost back to normal now and strong enough to work on the Beetle.
Yesterday I started putting in the EFI.Now this to me is very exciting,as this will be the change from old school,to Future.I have never worked on/driven a EFI Rotary in my life.Have allways sticked to the simple things,namely 48 IDA!haha.
I have sorted the wiring harness,and mounted the ECU.So tonight i will continue with the wiring,and hopefully have it finished in a day or so.The fuel pump is a whole different problem!
Next up will be the finishing off the exhaust.In the end it turns out that i cannot put a small resonator before the main silencer,as the just isnt enough space.
So Earplugs will be mandatory when driving it,hahahaha.(I`ll show those stupid Porsches (sp??) on the Circuit again this year.I WILL be louder again,hahaha)
Thats my small update for now.
Will have more frequent updates from now on.
Thanks for reading
Karis
11-27-07, 04:34 PM
#48
I'm glad you're making progress again. I just ordered a KEP kit so it's on its way.
It is for the older engines from '68 to '73. I have a '71-'73 12A that would love to go in the baja since it has no other attatchments at this time. It will be temporary while the silver and cherry red 13B goes into the GLC so the current owner isn't carless while doing a turbo conversion in his FB. Then when he can drive his car again, I'll get a '74+ KEP kit and swap the 13B in. The 12A can then go into a street bug. It's streetported with carbon apex seals so its low end torque isn't as good as a stock ported 4 port 13B, but would really scream in a street bug. Who knows, maybe the owner of the turbo FB will get a street bug and we can do a swap for him?
It is for the older engines from '68 to '73. I have a '71-'73 12A that would love to go in the baja since it has no other attatchments at this time. It will be temporary while the silver and cherry red 13B goes into the GLC so the current owner isn't carless while doing a turbo conversion in his FB. Then when he can drive his car again, I'll get a '74+ KEP kit and swap the 13B in. The 12A can then go into a street bug. It's streetported with carbon apex seals so its low end torque isn't as good as a stock ported 4 port 13B, but would really scream in a street bug. Who knows, maybe the owner of the turbo FB will get a street bug and we can do a swap for him?
12-04-07, 02:40 AM
#50
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Morning Jeff,and other followers.
My old chest is still hurting allot,so i can only do a little at a time....
Yes,i have a small update!
I have gotten the exahust finished as far as i possibly could.The rest has to be done by an exhaust shop.I just cant get the old arc welder in there!
The oil cooler is allmost mounted,just need to finish the last 2 brackets of it.It fits quite nicely on the lid,as is still able to close.I hope it will work ok with the fan i have in mind.
Lastly i continued with the EFI wiring,got some of it done.(Weird to think that the engine will run with only 15 wires!!!!!)
Then i got called away to go put up the F$#$ Christmas lights....Damnit!I was on a roll...
Here is a few pics of it.
Apologies on the shitty quality.
Karis
*Edit* The headlights still doesnt have its chrome rings,as i cant find any of them!I think the supply of parts has finally dried up here in RSA.Will have to think of something.Cant drive it without the rings,looks tachy!
My old chest is still hurting allot,so i can only do a little at a time....
Yes,i have a small update!
I have gotten the exahust finished as far as i possibly could.The rest has to be done by an exhaust shop.I just cant get the old arc welder in there!
The oil cooler is allmost mounted,just need to finish the last 2 brackets of it.It fits quite nicely on the lid,as is still able to close.I hope it will work ok with the fan i have in mind.
Lastly i continued with the EFI wiring,got some of it done.(Weird to think that the engine will run with only 15 wires!!!!!)
Then i got called away to go put up the F$#$ Christmas lights....Damnit!I was on a roll...
Here is a few pics of it.
Apologies on the shitty quality.
Karis
*Edit* The headlights still doesnt have its chrome rings,as i cant find any of them!I think the supply of parts has finally dried up here in RSA.Will have to think of something.Cant drive it without the rings,looks tachy!