shm21284

Mazda has a 3 rotor based on renesis (side ports) technology in one of their race cars... its pushing 425 horsepower. I see that as a contendor for the new rx7

thedguy

Those same rumors claim the next supra will have a v10, I'll believe it when I see it.

IaMtHeRuThLeSs1

FINALLY someone w/ common sence, keep the same size rotors and displacement per housing, and add a rotor. Open up the ports a bit, let it breath easier...boom ~350 n/a 3 rotor. it could sit low enough to keep the weight distribution while extending the length of the hood if neccesary.

We'd have a reliable 300+hp rotary vehicle...if you want to go turbo, i'm SURE greddy and the like will make them for you. Let everyone else have their reliable car.

Plus, theoritically, some of the parts could be interchangeable, rotors for example. So mazda doesnt have to design larger rotors and housings. Seems like it'd be a waste to design just a larger rotary engine, when they already have a great design, just needs some freshing up like the old 13b did, same displacement, a LOT more power.

hell what do i know.

thedguy

The other benefit to more rotors rather than bigger would me more port area without shity timing. Kinda like having a 3 litre v10 instead of a 3 litre 6.

shm21284

I very seriously doubt mazda will be making a larger 2 rotor. This would cause all those problems you said, plus, the redline would be lower because the e-shaft would be shorter and flex more... the apex seals would be heavier and chatter earlier in the RPM band... etc.

I know mazda has the 3 rotor race engine based on the renesis, and I am pretty sure this is where they will develop this engine before offering it to the public through the rx7. Just some my hunch though, but this is from judging mazda in the past and understanding some of the engineering side of it as well...

RotoricanNY

iTrader: (2)

It'll probably come out in 2008, for it's 30th b-day, or soon after the MKV, and also coming out with a 3 rotor wouldn't be bad, I mean ain't people have been making 13G's for years now? also I think they should come out with a Turbo and a N/A, cuz if it just comes out N/A, a turbo system is gonna be really expensive, so it would kinda suck, besides factory turbo engine is always better than N/A convertion.....but tahst just my opinion...

-Nil

Jobro

iTrader: (2)

I'd love to see a new 12a myself. I'm sure mazda could make on hellova 1146cc rotory engine these days. Just imagine it. Or even a new 13b, I'm not a big fan of bigger rotary engines. I mean theres cars putting out 450+rwkW from cosmo 13bt's. They don't need to make the engine longer!

Imagine a modern styled gen1 replacement, with freshly designed fuel injected 12AT. , no power steering, 4 big disks, and 14" rims all round. Could be the new pocket rocket we all want. They can skimp on the *features* to give it lower power, and better balence for all I care.

POS7

I'm so glad Mazda came out with the rx8 and didn't call it a 7. This gives them the potential to build a true sports car and call it a 7 in the future. The 8 is a sports/luxury car.

neit_jnf

iTrader: (17)

A 3-rotor Renesis based engine would be great BUT it'd be much longer and heavier than a 2-rotor of 1.5 or 1.6L displacement.

I also wanted to comment that using the RX-8 chassis will not make it look like an RX-8, the exterior body panels are responsible for looks. Just take the next-gen Miata as an example, it's using a shorter RX-8 chassis.

What Mazda should do for simplicity and cost effectiveness is reuse the RX-8 chassis (albeit shorter), suspension geometry and electric steering and the Renesis engine, this will save the costs of making everything new. Make it lightweight of about Miata weight (2400-2700 lbs) and retune the Renesis to the original 280 hp it's capable of putting out N/A.

They should also offer an optional low boost (for reliability) electrically assisted turbocharger like the one used on the Hydrogen RX-8 to bump the power to about 330-350 hp with no lag.

Now about looks... They already have the perfect winning formula of one of the most beautiful sportscars ever, the FD! They shoud just freshen up the 3rd gen's looks and adapt it to the new chassis without making it drastically different or too similar to the RX-8 or the new Miata.

Heck, I'd even buy it if they just brought back the Spirit-R with an OBDII/CAN bus Renesis based, more powerful and reliable powerplant!! With all the already existing aftermarket support it would be a dream!

topaz

"Heck, I'd even buy it if they just brought back the Spirit-R with an OBDII/CAN bus Renesis based, more powerful and reliable powerplant!! With all the already existing aftermarket support it would be a dream!"


WELL SAID!

I personally believe that the new 7 will have a turbo version of the existing Renesis engine. The new 7 will have about 330bhp. Its logical. Its fysical. Latest FD (Spirit R) had more than 290bhp dynoed (not in papers- jap laws etc). The new 7 will have at least +40bhp (just like the first version FD had 40bhp more than the latest FC version).
It is also easy for the factory to built same block, housings, rotors, etc for 2 assemply lines. Very important when you are trying to make o profitable model.
Lets wait and see. The thing I like most: The RX7 WILL HAVE a 4th GEN model...

Riccardo

iTrader: (1)

Very complex really subject

- It has to be faster than the new 6 MPS, RX8 MPS (if it finally gets the go ahead)
- It has to be cost effective
- It must not cannibalise other model sales, including Ford models
- Aggresive pricing
- It has to be faster and better than the FD, very hard thing to do at low cost as many things have changed since then
- RX8 Suspension / Chassis needs major reworking for FD performance

What is truly the upside ? Probably not profit, but Brand image

In a nutshell, i think the 4th Gen will just be a spin off product of the SE3P platform which will be marketed really strongly, but bottom line will not be a true successor to the FD...yes it will have the name but...

neit_jnf

iTrader: (17)

Where did you get this from? The RX-8 Chassis and Suspension Geometry are much more advanced than the FD's. Chassis is stronger, stiffer and the suspension is better.

topaz

WTF?

Chassis is stronger? Says who? This is by far WRONG. Should I remind you that the RX8 does NOT has a central column and a wide opening for the 2 doors?

Personal experience: I was at a workshop and an RX8 came to change exaust, put the Greedy SP2. while lifting the car the RX8 chassis actualy BENT and keep bent-ing... LOL! The guy who was lifting the car actually got scared and leave it...

"Suspension Geometry are much more advanced than the FD's"
MAJOR, MAJOR fault. Who said this (x2)? The double wishbones all around are STILL the greatest way to contact the road. Why Ferrari, Lamborghini, Mercedes (SLR), Lotus, Jaguar, Aston Martin, Maserati, Porsche (Carrera GT) etc, prefer double wishbones? NOT because they are WORSE than multilink I suppose.

Enough said... FD3S is BEYOND at chassis and suspension from the RX8. Yes, you could say that RX8 has better electronics. Yes you could say that RX8 has better brakes. Yes you could say that RX8 has better plastics, etc. But not the chassis, not the suspesion...

CCarlisi

-the 3 rotor engine Mazda is currently using in their race car is NOT a renesis; it is P-port just like all their previous race engines. I believe they call it a Renesis for marketing purposes.

As for wider chambers vs more rotors, my bet is that they add an additional rotor. I know a couple people, all drag racers, that claim to be using a new 3 rotor E-shaft made by Mazda. It is supposed to be stronger, lighter, and made out of a different material. I find it hard to believe Mazda would go through the trouble of developing it for only a handful of drag racers.

Riccardo

iTrader: (1)

Where did you get this from? The RX-8 Chassis and Suspension Geometry are much more advanced than the FD's. Chassis is stronger, stiffer and the suspension is better.

I think topaz more than answered that for you !!!! I could not agree with him more (other than for the brakes which are amazing on the FD)

Mazda has done a superb marketing tour de force with the RX8 - it is a superb value for money car, much more reliable than an FD with modern gimickry...and there is where it ends

neit_jnf

iTrader: (17)

the torsional rigidity of the RX-8 is 30,000 Nm/degree, TWICE as torsionally rigid as the 3rd gen RX-7 even without a center pillar.

The suspension geometry is based on the FD but improved, in stock form is softer for better ride though.

Steering system and brakes are improved as well.

All it needs is 2 less seats and doors, less weight, more power, stiffer suspension and a different body to become the next RX-7

circusmagic

As everyone is awaiting for the 4th gen rx7, living in/out of Japan for the past 18 years...the new rx7 will debut late 2006 as a 2007. The concept was based off the rx8, where if sales failed the japanese market, the head marketing department would of eventually end the rotary engine...but due to reasonable sales(mostly towards the mid 40's consumers), the rx7 will do anothe run for 3 more years(07, 08, 09). In Japan, the rx8 will need to run for at least 3 years(04,05,06) until the switch to the new rx7. As for what look for in the new Rx7...no pop up lights since they are now illegal in Japan. As for engine size...there is a possibility on a 15b. Don't be suprised to see Mazda releasing a turbo charged rx8 for a 2006 model...but of course we all know that the maximum efficient boost level for the rx8 is only 0.4.
i figure to drop my info which my resources is from inside sources from chiba, japan...

neit_jnf

iTrader: (17)

The Greddy kit is set for 0.5 bar (7 psi) as packaged but there are people already boosting 0.7 (10 psi) with it and there's a custom turbo RX-8 pushing 1.3 bar (19 psi and 400 whp)

MASTADORIFTO

if you ask me, the fd3s suspension set up is perfect, double wishbone front and rear are the latest tech in development. why degrade to a multilink?

shm21284

The Rx-8 Has better suspension geometry than the FD.

MountainTurbo

While I agree with the rest of your points for the most part, this one is partially wrong. While it's true it can't compete with other mazda models, they don't have to worry about competing against fords models.

Mazda has a sedan, coupe, minivan, suv, etc that already compete with fords, I don't think there's going to be a problem with the RX7 competing with fords.

The only ford model that would be close would be the mustang, but ford sells 100 of thousands of those a year, really a different market than a new RX7 would be in.

AceTimberwolf

I was at the Mazda Dealership this mourning in Alahambra, CA gettting my MX-5 a Tune up and the Guy there was talkinga bout the "2007 RX-7". He was like "yea The new RX-7 is gonna kick *** but the problem is that its pricey" so i guess their already making plans for it. He said its around 300-320 HP with officlal HP at 314 from wat he knew.

neit_jnf

iTrader: (17)

nasty...

AceTimberwolf

Its not as bad as the other "Concepts" that are out there.

krackerx7

iTrader: (1)

from what i remember reading comparing the fd to the 8 they put a rx-8 vs a S6 rx-7(255 hp) i believe this was by mazda in japan and they put them on a track and the rx-8 was faster in the corners the the 7 but in the straights the 7 would leave the 8