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I promise these probably aren't the questions you are expecting.
While I was running down several other issues with my new-to-me RX7 I noticed that the previous owner totally fracked the sound system, but most notably the bose snake in the back.
It appears that they chopped the factory harness plug off, spliced 4/6 wires, and ran them to some really lousy speakers that they nailed/screwed into the exit ports of the bose system
I would like to undo the damage and get the bose system working again, so I have some questions.
1. What is the best way to test the bose speakers to make sure they still work? I am planning on opening up the bose enclosure and doing a visible inspection. I assume that testing the resistance of the speakers should also be enough to verify their condition? Are there any other gotchas?
2. Based on the attached pictures, the harness coming from the car that the previous owner chopped is the factory bose harness, correct? Is there a wiring diagram and/or known source to put a factory adapter back on?
3. Based on the attached pictures, the system on the passengers side seems to have a clamp that is supposed to mate the exit port and the back of the system together. This appears to be broken on my car (and was not mating the pieces when I inspected the unit). Is my understanding correct? Does anyone have pictures or an explanation of how all the Bose pieces are supposed to mate together? Most of the parts were already loose/not connected before I took it out of the car to look at closer.
I haven't had much luck searching for answers to those questions, so I wanted to ask the experts. I apologize if I missed anything.
I also need to replace the center speaker in the front (totally shot), and it looks like the previous owner put some pretty cheap speakers in the left and right door. Is there any criteria for these speakers to make sure they are working good with the bose system? (this I haven't had a chance to search yet, but I am throwing it in there with the other questions while I dig around).
Not looking forward to looking at how they installed the aftermarket head unit based on what I have seen so far....
1. What is the best way to test the bose speakers to make sure they still work? I am planning on opening up the bose enclosure and doing a visible inspection. I assume that testing the resistance of the speakers should also be enough to verify their condition? Are there any other gotchas?
In my opinion is to turn it on and see how it sounds.
Originally Posted by SpinningDorito
2. Based on the attached pictures, the harness coming from the car that the previous owner chopped is the factory bose harness, correct? Is there a wiring diagram and/or known source to put a factory adapter back on?
3. Based on the attached pictures, the system on the passengers side seems to have a clamp that is supposed to mate the exit port and the back of the system together. This appears to be broken on my car (and was not mating the pieces when I inspected the unit). Is my understanding correct? Does anyone have pictures or an explanation of how all the Bose pieces are supposed to mate together? Most of the parts were already loose/not connected before I took it out of the car to look at closer.
Yes that broken piece holds together the bose snake just like a v-band flange. Basically the band has a groove that wraps around the flange on the exhaust (in your case the bose tube). Hopefully this pictorial will help you understand how it comes together
Exhaust with flanges for a V-band:
An actual V-band (check the grooved area that attaches to the flanges:
How the V-band sits with the flanges:
Connected:
So if you look at your bose snake you will see that is has flanges very much like the exhaust pictures. And they will fit right in with that broken piece. Here look at the bottom right of the tube in this pic and you will the non-broken clamp:
Originally Posted by SpinningDorito
I also need to replace the center speaker in the front (totally shot), and it looks like the previous owner put some pretty cheap speakers in the left and right door. Is there any criteria for these speakers to make sure they are working good with the bose system? (this I haven't had a chance to search yet, but I am throwing it in there with the other questions while I dig around).
all bose speakers minus the center speaker have an amplifier (see diagram) so one can't just replace the speakers.
Originally Posted by SpinningDorito
Not looking forward to looking at how they installed the aftermarket head unit based on what I have seen so far....
aw that explains why they did the cutting... See the bose stereo is passive (no power output) that is why each speaker has an individual amplifier, also the bose system is 1 ohm vs the conventional 75 ohm system (mismatch in impedance). So you just cant get an aftermarket head unit and connect it to a bose speaker. It will sound like ****.
In my opinion is to turn it on and see how it sounds.
Fair enough. I have the unit disassembled to clean it up and make sure nothing looked crazy damaged. Amps and speakers look to be in good shape, so I think it should be good to go. Wasn't sure if there was a known procedure to test them outside of the car, and didn't want to let the smoke out of anything trying to rig something up blindly to test it.
Thanks for the diagram, that's going to be helpful. I'm going to try to find a harness connector that will just plug into the bose (someone suggested the subwoofer connector from a Tribute or Ford Escape should be a match), but in the likely event that doesn't pan out, I will probably just have to wire a new connector assembly in.
So if you look at your bose snake you will see that is has flanges very much like the exhaust pictures. And they will fit right in with that broken piece. Here look at the bottom right of the tube in this pic and you will the non-broken clamp:
That is what I was afraid of. Can't imagine there are any replacement clamps floating around, so I'll have to find a clever way to seal it up. There is only one of these clamps it looks like from your picture, correct? The system wasn't coupled on the left side either when I removed it, but it looks like that side was just missing some screws that couple the two pieces.
all bose speakers minus the center speaker have an amplifier (see diagram) so one can't just replace the speakers.
That's what I thought! But it does looks like the last guy smashed aftermarket speakers in the front doors somehow. I'll have to pull the panels and figure out what kind of hack job is in there too. The center speaker is just blown from sun exposure. Can't really locate a suitable replacement for the center speaker, but fortunately bose still seems to stock the door speakers.
It will sound like ****.
Bingo. The system sounds like ****, so it was always on my to-do list. However it also seems to be draining the battery (I can hear the speakers pop on when I connect the battery, and what sounds like a cdplayer spinning up), so it became a higher priority to look it all over. I already have a new head unit and the schosche adapter, so I am going to try to figure out how to remove the aftermarket unit in the car this weekend. It doesn't appear to have a puller mechanism like the stock units did (the stock CD player is still in the top din slot).
Just have my fingers crossed the stereo harness plug is still there when I pull everything out. I have seen some bad stereo jobs, but the install they did on this car is something else. Thanks for all the good information!
It was really naive of the previous owner to mount speakers on the tips of the snake. Snake is an isobaric woofer and speakers must be placed inside the enclosure at a certain distance from center. There is an amp for the center speaker too, it's either under center console cover close to the back, or near the glove box depending on the year of the car. I think you can order all the speakers (including center speaker) directly from Bose.
It was really naive of the previous owner to mount speakers on the tips of the snake. Snake is an isobaric woofer and speakers must be placed inside the enclosure at a certain distance from center. There is an amp for the center speaker too, it's either under center console cover close to the back, or near the glove box depending on the year of the car. I think you can order all the speakers (including center speaker) directly from Bose.
Preaching to the choir. The previous owner was a very special person...
I will grab the part numbers and double check with Bose. When I talked to them today they said they had the door speakers and wave speaker/amps. Sounded like they were out of everything else.
There is only one of these clamps it looks like from your picture, correct? The system wasn't coupled on the left side either when I removed it, but it looks like that side was just missing some screws that couple the two pieces.
That's correct there is only one clamp. The other side is bolted up together
Sounds like you have your work cutout for you. One thing to keep in mind is that a lot of people dislike the bose system so you may be able to source parts rather cheaply. Which brings me to another point: I have a theory on why people dislike the bose... My first FD was 100% (in other words very quiet in the cabin) and it came with a bose system. I loved it as it was very subtle but clear and crisp with the melody. However, add an exhaust (or any other mod that increases cabin noise) and forget it as it will drown out the system entirely. The only reason I am saying this is because if you plan to mod your car for performance, you may be wasting energy on the bose system.
That's correct there is only one clamp. The other side is bolted up together
Sounds like you have your work cutout for you. One thing to keep in mind is that a lot of people dislike the bose system so you may be able to source parts rather cheaply. Which brings me to another point: I have a theory on why people dislike the bose... My first FD was 100% (in other words very quiet in the cabin) and it came with a bose system. I loved it as it was very subtle but clear and crisp with the melody. However, add an exhaust (or any other mod that increases cabin noise) and forget it as it will drown out the system entirely. The only reason I am saying this is because if you plan to mod your car for performance, you may be wasting energy on the bose system.
Yeah, I know a lot of people don't like the bose system. But it's a neat part of the car in my opinion, and I'm sure I will be happy enough with its performance (it absolutely has to be better than the setup that was in the car currently). Thank you so much for finding that thread! I am going to hit that guy up for sure.
Pulled the aftermarket radio and the stock cd player today. It was a major pita because the CD player had not been re-installed correctly and the clamps that hold it in on the right side could not be disengaged. The factory stereo harness looks intact (thank god) but the harness coming out of the cd player is cut off. I guess it was just kept in the vehicle for looks.
Is it even possible to have a functional stock CD player with an aftermarket unit? My guess is no. I am assuming that the cd player normally plugs into the stock head unit, which then connects to the stereo harness and is the "audio unit". I guess I can keep it in just for looks, or get one of those questionable cupholder boxes.
Using a multimeter and some of the wire diagrams floating around I was able to fashion a temporary "harness" until something better comes along. The pin-outs in the diagram were a little different than the pinouts on my bose system, so I will post more information on that when I get a chance, in case someone else has to much around with this in the future. The bose system fired up in perfect working order.
Ordered a bunch of different connector sizes from Eastern Beaver after seeing them recommended in another thread for replacement engine harness plugs, and it looks like the bose enclosures also use some of the standard harness plug connectors, which makes sense.
Since I couldn't find this documented on the forum anywhere, For those that may come later, the following connectors will work from Eastern Beaver (ie, are compatible with the OEM bose female connectors)
For the bose soundwave 6-pin connector, the following should work (I think the first one fits a little better, but its personal preference):
6P 250 CNA-TL
6P 250-CNA
For the front left and right speaker connectors, the following should work (Again, my preference is the first one, but they should both fit and work):
4P 250-CNA-TL
4p 250-CNA
Will update again after I get these installed. Really excited to have found the parts to fix this properly.
Most people that dont like the Bose are simply acting like typical humans - they get scared of what they dont understand. First time I installed an aftermarket head unit in 1999 it only made sense to me to look at the wiring diagram to try to incorporate it all. That's why I uploaded that wiring gif so long ago. Everyone had trouble kicking the Bose speakers on with an aftermarket radio. It was all about that one little cable that clicked a relay which sent power to the Bose amps.
And let me tell you, an aftermarket radio with the converter box dialed in properly will make the Bose speakers sing like you couldnt believe. No one could believe the amount of extra base coming out of my snake. I hope all has worked out for you!
Most people that dont like the Bose are simply acting like typical humans - they get scared of what they dont understand. First time I installed an aftermarket head unit in 1999 it only made sense to me to look at the wiring diagram to try to incorporate it all. That's why I uploaded that wiring gif so long ago. Everyone had trouble kicking the Bose speakers on with an aftermarket radio. It was all about that one little cable that clicked a relay which sent power to the Bose amps.
And let me tell you, an aftermarket radio with the converter box dialed in properly will make the Bose speakers sing like you couldnt believe. No one could believe the amount of extra base coming out of my snake. I hope all has worked out for you!
Yeah, it was a pain to get it all running again, but that was mostly due to damage and stupid things that were done by one of the POs. The wiring for the system is actually fairly straightforward once you get it all mapped out (except for that one pin you have to switch).
Didn't help that the first Kenwood they sent me was defective, and the schosche converter box had a damaged potentiometer.
I have it all pretty well dialed in now though, and I'm fairly happy with it. Getting the bose dialed in right on the converter was a pain. It sure seems like the rear left and right can't be the same level out of the converter box, or I get some serious distortion. In terms of "wub wub" setting up the box to mostly left, or mostly right delivered the most. The best sound quality I could get was kind of a 60/40 setting though.
The way I dialed everythjng in was I set the headunit volume at 100%, bass at 100%, played a heavy bass song and adapter at 0%. Id slowly turn up the adapter until I heard distortion, and then Id turn it back just before distortion. But my system was only 6 years old back then. Who knows what condition your drivers and amps are especially with a wonky drunk PO hacking **** up.
Im impressed and surprised Bose still has all the amps! And even if they didnt Im sure they could always repair one. For that front driver, didnt Mazda keep using Bose up until 2002? Maybe Mazda Japan can still get that part or a used one from the motherland.
The way I dialed everythjng in was I set the headunit volume at 100%, bass at 100%, played a heavy bass song and adapter at 0%. Id slowly turn up the adapter until I heard distortion, and then Id turn it back just before distortion. But my system was only 6 years old back then. Who knows what condition your drivers and amps are especially with a wonky drunk PO hacking **** up.
Im impressed and surprised Bose still has all the amps! And even if they didnt Im sure they could always repair one. For that front driver, didnt Mazda keep using Bose up until 2002? Maybe Mazda Japan can still get that part or a used one from the motherland.
Yeah, that was my approach too, but as noted it really seemed like both channels to the rear couldn't be set to the same power. I'm not an expert on isobaric speakers, so I'm not sure if thats a characteristic of those systems or not.
Didn't seem like a individual speaker/amp problem since both left and right sound great on their own.
Anyone who is looking for audio parts should at least try reaching out to Bose Automotive. Their customer service is really good, and they do still have *some* parts in stock, however my understanding is they are running low and not planning to restock for the RX7 any more.
There are at least a couple of shops with decent reputations that rebuild the amps, so that's an option if you can't replace them and can't repair the problem yourself. I believe $80 is the standard rate to repair our amps, and most places give you a decent warranty on the repairs.
Not sure what you can do if you blow a speaker though, and Bose is out. That would be trickier.
Just wanted to bump and see if anyone had any thoughts on the behavior I was seeing with the Schosche adapter.
Is there a trick to dialing it in for the rear channels? Generally I can't seem to set them to the same level without getting distortion, and the base seems deeper if I use the head unit to set to just left or right, than it does set to center.
I'm concerned maybe I didn't get the polarity right on the sound wave speakers when I installed the new speakers into my enclosure, but not sure what a good way to test is without taking it back out and just switching the polarity on one of them.
On the other hand, I feel like the distortion would be worse if the polarity was wrong, and the positive/negative wires from the enclosure seemed to be cut to lengths so you couldn't install them backwards.
I'm 50/50 on whether this is a wiring issue with the soundwave, which I remember double/triple/quadruple checking, or if there is just a trick with the Schosche adapter I'm missing (or equalizer/crossover settings I need to tweak)
It just seems odd that the base has more oomph/thump from the sound wave speakers indivually, than it does when both are on. Feel like I'm running in circles at this point, since I never had a working system as a point of reference.
All we have is the car’s wiring diagram yet no information on specifics of the amps or even which way the drivers are supposed to move. I am not a sound engineer and will not pretend to be one lol.
What would I do? I would call Bose and ask for 2 things:
1) Which direction are the drivers supposed to move? Do they move in synch with each other or independently?
This will at least allow you to see how they move and get an idea if the amp is acting as it should and the wiring is done right. The sub amp gets + and - from left and right channel. So it makes sense if both move independently, but it IS Bose after all so who knows.
2) I would get specifics of the amps and consider taking the amps to an electronics shop. Someone at Bose has to have details on its max output, ohms, etc. Then if you know how to check it do so or take to a shop where they can test the whole thing properly. I don’t need to remind you they are 20+ year old electronics that also have to deal with humidity, heat, and possibly much cold.
Have you considered replacing the drivers in the enclosure? I understand keeping the enclosure since it looks so unique, but does it really need to be driven by Bose inside? Have you checked if drivers of the same size exist?
Oops. I probably left out the important detail that all my bose components are brand new. I was able to source every speaker and amp, with the exception of the center speaker amp. I did have to reconstruct the factory harness at both doors and the soundwave myself though.
So I'm operating under the assumption it's a polarity/wiring issue, an oddity of the clamshell isobaric design, or a tuning/setup issue on my Kenwood.
Some more googling seems to indicate that the speakers in a isobaric clamshell setup must have the opposite polarity, so I'm going to try to verify that if I can. I found some neat tools/apps that claim to be able to play a test tone through the system and detect any issues with the speaker polarity.
I might try giving Bose or crutchfield another call. The contact I had for Bose automotive wasn't a technical contact, so I'll have to see if they still have anyone around who is familiar with our system.
I guess the other option is to track down one of the compatible Bose Mazda head units and see if that makes a big difference. If it does, it's definitely a head unit thing.
I think I have a stock radio somewhere, but if I remember right someone who had the car before me chopped the connector off of it and only left about an inch, so it's probably more effort than it's worth to try to repair mine.
That is awesome that you mostly have new components.
Yep, you know polarity is important. I don't know anything of sound design to even know what it "should" be, or what Bose believes it should be. I don't even remember what I did with my original head unit lol. But after properly dialing in the Schosche, I never looked back. People at every 7 meet didn't believe I was still using the factory wave with the improved sound until I showed it to them. Everyone had a habit of ditching it back then because they didn't understand and never bothered to look at the wiring diagram to see that there was a relay the Bose head unit triggered to turn on the amps. So everyone assumed Bose speakers only work with the Bose head unit.
Anytime regular speakers have reversed polarity, they never have enough thump. In my nubish brain I am thinking Bose may have special drivers that move the opposite direction of each other. Did you ever notice if the drivers have a specific L and R designation?
Now that's an interesting thought. I think I remember when I spoke with them they said the rear amps are both the same part number (at least that's what they emailed me at the time). I don't remember noticing any L or R markings. I always assumed that the polarity reversal was handled by the wiring from the amp to the individual drivers in the guide assembly. I seem to remember noticing that when I put the new drivers in.
I'll see how well these applications work and what they register on the polarity. I might try the adjustments again with a proper test track this time as well. When I finished this the first time my car still needed a ton of work so it wasn't a huge priority. Now that I can drive it again, I should probably go through the process one more time.
I agree with you, the system in the front sounds pretty good. Even the rear sounds decent right now, but if I remember right, my Schosche settings had to be higher on one side, so I'm not sure I'm getting the right performance from the rear yet.
I'm not an audio expert really, but I think there is probably a way I can check the polarities with a multi-meter as well. One voltage should measure positive, and one negative if they are inverted.
That is funny. I never once considered hooking up speaker wires to a voltimeter. I don't think I have ever seen a chart that says yeah you should see x voltage out of your setup. Do let me know before I get itchy and do it with my home system.
With the L or R setup, when you think about it, even if the amp reversed the polarity, it would be like physically reversing it at the driver anyways, wouldn't it? The driver would have to be reversed itself unless reversing these drivers doesn't make a difference due to its design. And keep in mind they may not even be labeled L or R but may have different part numbers,
I know they sell special tools to check it, but I think they just apply a low voltage and do a check for +/- on the voltage. I'll have to look into it a bit more.
Per the email from Bose, they both should be P/N 177027-6402. That's what they sent me.
I double checked some of the pictures I took of the original parts when I pulled them to find replacements, and while the original Mazda amps have a different part number, they are both the same:
JGS(5?)H - Rear
146034-6102
Assuming what bose sent me (two 177027-6402 amps) are just a revision on the original part.
Ok that simplifies things. And we know its not some funky signal by the head unit. The amp is what drives the special ohms needed for them. I think I read somewhere they might be 2 ohms.
I know the stock head unit puts out low level signals to the amps. That's why the schosche adapter is required to step the speaker line out put from an aftermarket head unit down in the first place.
I'll verify when I have a chance, but if I recall last time I messed with it both speakers worked fine and had pretty deep response with the balance set to L or R, so it shouldn't be an issue with the amps or the speakers. The response seems to get noticeably shallower when set to center, and I don't think I was ever able to set RL and RR to the same output level on Schosche without getting distortion on big bass hits.
So it seems to me there's limited areas for error.
1. Everything is working fine, and I just need to do some tuning on the head unit. By design the line level to the rears shouldn't be identical. (from what I have read about the clamshell setup, this doesn't seem right)
2. When I rebuilt the stock connector for the soundwave following the FSM wiring diagram, I crossed a +/- wire somewhere. I remember testing this by switching the +/- wires around and listening for an improvement, but I may not have been thorough enough)
3. When I pulled the old speakers and put the new speakers in, somehow both speakers got set to the same polarity. Again, I remember double checking this several times before reinstalling the system, but it seems like a small detail I could have missed.
4. The schosche adapter has a defect. This seems unlikely since its a fairly simple device.
5. I rebuilt one of the front harness connectors wrong, and one of the left or right front speakers has the wrong polarity and is out of phase. (doesn't seem like it would impact the rears, and just like with #2 I followed the diagrams pretty carefully)
2 and 3 are basically the same problem, so if I identify that as an issue when I can test the system in more detail, I imagine I can solve it by either swapping the +/- lines at the soundwave connector, or opening the assembly back up and swapping at the drivers.
If everything tests wired correctly, I'll have to just mess with option 1, the EQ/Crossover settings in tandem with taking another crack at the schosche settings.
Was hoping this was an obvious problem, or known thing with the adapter and there was a trick to it, but it sounds like I'll have to put a little more work into this. That's fine though, this kind of stuff is a lot more enjoyable than swapping out the turbos or any of the other stuff I've been doing.
01-28-18, 02:51 PM
