neye4rx7

Unknown user thank you for the video. I did notice that the car was a bit twitchy on and off the gas. I also noticed that down the straight your car appeared to loose boost. Were you able to fix that problem?

neye4rx7

Kilito thanks for your reply and your inventation. I still have my apexi ecu just in case but I do have trust in your dads work. I will like to take you up on your inventation though maybe this will take away any doubts I have with this ecu. I have seen some of your dads car at the drag strip and yes they do work. Just wondering how he can tune it for quick boost coming out of corners on the lower rpm. Kilito I met you once before and you are a class act just like your dad. I am still working hard to get a few more parts for the fd and hope to see use guys soon.

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

i have a microtech in my car and i drive it everyday too, i have been for the past 8 years or so(back during the first group buy we got for them and the ONLY group buy we ever had on this site for them).

is it reliable? yes
does it work? yes
does it work well? sort of, but not by today's standard
can i switch things around easily with it? **** no, microtech wants you to send it to australia just to do basic changes with it and charge out the *** for the changes
does it give basic functionality that other ECUs offer with their most basic ECUs? see last response and multiply it by 10. no times 10 is still no.

but i understand, your tuner specializes with microtech. it will work, it will work just fine. you already have the unit, you have a tuner who tunes the unit and that is all you need.

even their support has gone to **** when asking a basic question. i used to prefer them, i now push other products instead. they had their chance to build a whole new ECU, they chose to make the same BS garbage, giving you an idea of what they are about. the people saying to avoid the microtech just don't want you to be caught stuck in the rut we were sold into, unless your plans of modifying the car are very narrow then it might just work ok.

i can't even run more than 20psi without sending the shitbox back to australia and paying some absurd amount like $350 to do so. that's 1/3 of a brand spanking new REAL ECU.

even the megasquirt is more advanced now than the highest line MT units, made by kids who tinkered in their garage with transistors and resistors as a hobby to start with AFTER these microtech units were sold for many years already.

Kilito Racing

My car spools pretty quick. I also eventually want to hit the track with it.

neye4rx7

Kilito that looked pretty good are you running single turbo or twin turbo set up.

spintriangles

iTrader: (3)

Well I have seen them work well on drag cars but I am not too sure on how well they work on rx7 used on road courses. On road courses you are on and off the throttle. I also dont know how well they work on street cars as far as driveabilty. I run a power fc and its ok.

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

3 year bump?

funny how the answers are still the same though. microtech is that slow with updates.

my microtech still works and it works fine, but it's still a bit of a turd.

spintriangles

iTrader: (3)

Rotaryevolution what type of driving do you do with your rotary and do you have any on and off power jerking? Having a hard time getting.peoples experience on this ecu. I bought a lt10. I know its not the latest model in ecu but pretty simple and I see a lot of guys runnung them in Australia and on the drag seen.

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

i've run it for about 10 years and about 60k miles, mostly daily driving, normal driving with the occassional foot to the floor 100-120mph to pass a car or 5. one time up to 145mph or so.

never really tracked the car, ran it at the drag strip a couple times.

gets 23.5mpg highway, never bothered to calculate city mpg.

it's never treated me badly or left me by the side of the road, IMO it's the easiest ECU to tune aside from these newfangled ones with autotune functions, if they actually got them working properly yet. the tune has been untouched for i don't know how long(maybe 5 or 6 years?), and i don't keep a wideband in the car to monitor the tune, because honestly it has never given me a reason to need to monitor it.

if tuned properly the microtech works fine, but you're locked into the boost level that your ECU map sensor is configured to.

spintriangles

iTrader: (3)

Rotaryevolution thanks for the good info. Pass 5 cars.lol That 23 mile per gallon hwy is not bad in my book. All those 60k miles on one engine with microtech? How much boost and rwhp? Also cant the.boost be controlled by adding a boost controller?

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

yes, just the one engine, about 325whp, i didn't beat the snot out of it every chance i got but i took it on a few 1k mile road trips.

you can't raise the boost beyond what the map sensor can read, on my lt8 it was originally sold with a 2.5bar sensor, if i want to run more boost than the sensor can read then they want me to send the unit back to australia...

spintriangles

iTrader: (3)

Nice power for a reliable dd. Sucks that you have send the ecu to Australia to increase boost levels.

OG BBF

Stick with a motec m800 if you can afford it

spintriangles

iTrader: (3)

Og bbf what are the advantages of motec800 over microtech ?

ACR_RX-7

iTrader: (1)

You can't even compare those two controllers head to head. There is stratospheric differences in capabilities.

Motec M800:
Engine Tuning Features

Windows based ECU Manager tuning software with user definable screen layouts

Individual cylinder tuning of both fuel delivery and ignition timing

Suits modern engines, including those with coil per cylinder ignition

4D fuel and ignition tables for engine mapping based on three channels ‡
Selectable channels for table axes ‡
Fully configurable axis points on all tables ‡
Highly configurable crank and cam trigger inputs to suit almost all OEM sensors and tooth patterns

Free access to wideband Lambda and data logging for initial tuning. Available for the first 8 hours engine running time

Additional Distinct Features

Suitable for engines requiring the latest complex control functions, such as:

Continuously variable camshaft control (up to 2 inlet and 2 exhaust cams)

Drive by wire throttle control
Capable of all other modern control functions, such as:
Traction control
Overrun boost enhancement (anti-lag)
Gear change ignition cut (flat shifts)
Boost control
Nitrous injection
Dual stage injection (Hi/Lo injection)
Fully configurable sensor inputs including custom calibrations
Configurable receiving and transmitting data via the CAN bus
Capable of receiving data from multiple Lambda measurement devices via CAN
Integrated advanced diagnostics, including injector & crank trigger diagnostics
Switchable between multiple configurations ‡
Ref/Sync capture displayed on the built-in digital oscilloscope ‡

Data Acquisition (optional after first 8 hours of operation)

Internal data logging (1 MB or 4 MB options) with fast download via CAN
Three engine histogram logs including a tell-tale log ‡
State of the art i2 Standard or i2 Pro data analysis software
Telemetry and remote logging options

Upgradable with optional functionality to make additional features available when you want them, activated through a simple password system.









This is off of MicroTechs site on the LT-10c, so probably much newer than what RotaryEvolution has:
GENERAL SPECIFICATIONS
Extruded aluminium case
1 Year Warranty
32 Bit Motorola Processor
Surface mount technology circuit board
Supports up to 8 cyl & 2 rotor engines
Max readable RPM 15,950
Max readable boost with standard map sensor 25psi (30 & 45psi upgrade available as an option)

FUEL DELIVERY
4x Injector drivers capable of 4amp peak/hold
True sequential injection on most 4 cyl & rotary applications (crank angle dependent)
Can run up to 4x high impedance injectors per driver
Tuneable in MAP or TPS modes
Main matrix table has 16×16 load sites
32×32 inbuilt interpolation table
0.01 m/s injector resolution
RPM tuning range 500rpm to 12,000rpm
Overall mixture trim +/- 99%
Coolant temp correction
Air temp correction
Accelerator pump amount, sensitivity & time compensation
Cranking enrichment correction
After start enrichment correction
Cold start accelerator pump correction
Hard cut RPM limiter
Soft cut RPM limiter
Over boost limiter
Auxiliary input correction +/- 99%
Sequential, group fire & staged injection modes
2 step/launch control limiter
Individual cylinder trim (4cyl & 2 rotor engines)

SENSORS
Configured to suit application when ordered

IGNITION
4x Ignition drivers
Ignition setup preconfigured for engine type
Configurable to suit 1- 8 cyl engines using an external igniter
Configurable for twin distributors & 2 rotor engines
16 RPM based ignition points
16 Map based correction points
16 Water temp based correction points
16 Air temp based correction points
Ignition advance/retard on accelerator pump
Ignition advance/retard on AUX input trigger
Ignition trim overall +/- 45deg
Ignition TDC reference adjustment on some applications
Adjustable timing split on rotary engines
Accuracy to 1 degree

AUXILIARY INPUTS & OUTPUTS
1x Fixed RPM/MAP based – ve switched AUX output (shift light etc)
1x Fixed temperature based – ve switched AUX output (thermo fan etc)
1x Fixed – ve switched PWM output (Idle motor)
1x +POS switched AUX input (2 step limiter/launch control etc)
Separate fuel pump & tach output
2x External sensor inputs (oil & fuel pressure)

DIAGNOSTICS
Red LED indicated fault code triggered
Data page indicates where fault lies
Operational errors: over boost, RPM limit, RPM cut, max duty, water temp, voltage, shift light
Self test mode runs all injector & ignition outputs & cycles AUX outputs
Amber LED gives visual of ignition input signal

PROGRAMMING & TUNING
Using Microtech Laptop Adapter & Microtech Software
Using Microtech Handset or Microtech Dash Unit
4 Maps saveable to Microtech Laptop Adapter or Microtech Handset
Save & load maps to hard drive or print to word doc
Engine protection mode with user adjustable limits

DATA LOGGING & MAP STORAGE
Data logging directly to laptop
Data logging sampling rate 100 times/second
Viewed data displays average readings 10 times/second
Data viewable in text or graph
Playback data log
Print data log
Save data log to disc
Laptop logging standard
On board ECU logging available as an optional upgrade
On board logging holds 5 minutes of memory
User definable switch on/off points
CAN output (1 Mbit/second)
CAN output compatible with MicroTech, PCS, Racepak & Motec dash loggers















I know the wall of text on the MicroTech seems impressive, but it can't do half of the things the Motec can. Hell, a Megasquirt can do more than a Microtech if set up properly.

spintriangles

iTrader: (3)

Wow. A lot of info there acr. Can you give to me in a nut shell. A ecu for dummies if you will. Lol. How will the motec out perform the microtech far as driveavility/power delivery/engine temps/does it reduce turbo lag/make more power or torque. Not really interested in traction control or lunch control.

ACR_RX-7

iTrader: (1)

I'll try and go down your list as best as possible.

The power that an engine delivers is 100% dependent on the quality of tune. If you plug in the exact same numbers (or equivalent values in the ECU fields) both controllers should and will make the exact same power. This is provided you scale the maps identically and such.

As far as driveability, the Motec will shine as long as it was tuned correctly. The interpolation of the map cells is much finer than the MicroTech. You can have better transient response in the small areas of the map that the MicroTech just doesn't have the resolution for.

Will this be noticed in every application? Maybe. Depends on the tune, supporting mods, the tuner, and other factors.

As far as power delivery, temps, and more power or torque, again that is dependent on the tune. If you tune an engine incorrectly, it can be reflected in the coolant and exhaust temps.

As far as turbo lag, sure. If you have anti-lag turned on, but you don't want to do that on the street. Turbo lag is dependent on the type of turbo and the port shape, airflow volume, etc. You can not change it with a tune, unless you are using some kind of anti-lag strategy or significantly change up the tune. Again, as an apples to apples comparison we assume all fields have identical values inputted.

The Motec has closed loop boost control, which can affect spool times compared to a manual boost controller. That involves two different control strategies and is not equivalent in our comparison.



Again, there really is no comparison. Try comparing a Windows 95 PC and a current and stable running Windows 10 machine as far as performance. Sure, you can browse the web and do your email, but the MicroTech doesn't get the updates.

I would not waste my money on either of these controllers. The MicroTech is an outdated controller that doesn't have close to the inputs and outputs a Haltech, AEM Infinity, Adaptronic, Link/ViPec, or a Megasquirt Pro has.

The Motec is primarily designed for racing applications (as are all aftermarket controllers), but you have to pay for additional features. Many of the controllers I listed above come with them unlocked.


Lets simply look at price:

Motec M800- $3000

MicroTech LT16c- $1200

Haltech PS1000- $1400

Adaptronic E440- $1300

MS3X- $800

MS3Pro- $1200

Link Fury- $1800


If you shop on price alone, the MS3X is your best choice. Find a reputable tuner you trust. See what they support. You will be worlds ahead. If they only support MicroTech, that's fine. Just understand that you can get so much more with a different controller.






I will quote what RotaryEvolution said three years ago about the microtech.






I would recommend you do some research on your own and come to your own conclusions. You seem hell bent on going with a MicroTech because you keep asking about it, even when you have been told it pales in comparison to modern engine controllers. MicroTechs had their place. They do "work", but wouldn't you want something so much better?

spintriangles

iTrader: (3)

Appears you are right. Microtech is the way I am leaning based on my tuners words. Just want.to make sure I am not making a big mistake. I would even be willing to change tuners just to switch ecu. I have read this thread and many others but as far as track day use and dd the info.seems limited. I was hoping someone would.chime in who.runs.there car on the track and dds it would.chime in. All thus info is valuable and I will continue to research it. My cars engine just got rebuilt with street port,aspec turbo kit 6262 1ar and re v mount. Just want it to run well.

ACR_RX-7

iTrader: (1)

Your tuner probably likes them because they are easy to tune and are well known on a rotary, but that does not mean it is the end all be all. As far as a PCM suitable for a daily, they really all can be used that way. The microtech is not some idle/wide out PCM that only does two things. It can be driven. Any PCM can be used for everyday driving. It just comes down to the features and capabilities you want.

Hell, the PowerFC is a fantastic unit....for it's time. Loads of people have used them and continue to do so, but wouldn't you rather have something a bit more up to date?

Think about it this way. If any aftermarket controller could not be tuned to run on the street, do you think that people would go out and purchase one at all? We have multiple subforums dedicated to multiple types of controllers. Many people have their favorites for one reason or another.

If you actually read through this thread, you would see the same messages over and over. It's a decent PCM, but has major shortcomings. The same thing is repeated over and over. Yes, it works, but it's old and antiquated.

Go onto the various subforums and look at what people run and what they like. For my money, go with a Haltech Elite 1500 or an MS3 Pro. The Adaptronic is the new kid on the block and is also very popular. You really cant go wrong with many of the options out there, but if you are going to drop the cash on a controller, get the best one for your dollar. And, in your case, get one your tuner supports. Otherwise, you may need to find another tuner.

spintriangles

iTrader: (3)

Still no one has really chimed in as far as track days. Sure wish I could see a vid of a car on the track running microtech. So far it sounds like I will have to use the microtech. I dont want to adjust any setting once the car is tuned so I dont understand why I would need a hand held tuner.

ACR_RX-7

iTrader: (1)

You don't need a handheld tuner. Many people have a PFC Commander so that they can datalog. The MicroTech does not datalog well. Not many people are going to come in and chime in on track days because you posted in the New Member section. If you want to know more, go to the MicroTech subforum.

Why are you concerned about adjusting the tune? Once a controller is tuned, it's done. You don't need to go back in and mess with it unless something has changed.

Also, you will not find many videos of people doing a track day with a MicroTech because the MicroTech was popular before YouTube and cell phone videos that could display more than ten pixels.

I know Aaron Cake uses a MicroTech in his FC, so I'll link a couple of his vids.




Again, I am not sure why you are hung up on the track days part of it. if the controller can run the engine on the street, it can do so on the track. In your first post, you mentioned you had a PowerFC. Why not stick with that? It's outdated, sure, but quite a bit better than a Microtech.

Howard Coleman ran a PFC on his 500+hp FD for years and eventually switched to a Vipec V88 for additional datalogging support.

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

where in fl are you?

spintriangles

iTrader: (3)

Good video. That car seems to run well. It does not look choppy. Looks like a smooth acceleration. I live in Orlando

Aaron Cake

iTrader: (1)

I am of course the owner of the car that is in the videos above.

The car is a fair weather daily driver, running a Microtech LT8s. However, I would like to make it very clear that this car is about as removed from stock as one could get. It's a 6 port high compression turbo engine (S4 NA block) with a mild bridgeport. GT4088R turbo, and my own custom designed and fabricated intake manifold with runner lengths, diameters and plenum volume calculated to the engine (as best as I could guess/estimate when I built it).

I chose the Microtech because at the time, in the early 2000s, ECU choices were rather limited. The Haltechs at the time had known VR sensor issues with the FC CAS and were susceptible to noise (one loves to see 16K RPM spikes in their datalog while figuring out why the apex seals are now located in the muffler). The besides the Haltech, there was only the Wolf series (which could not run stock trailing coils), the Tec ECUs (expensive, lack of true rotary support), Motec (write a blank cheque). Megasquirt was at the 2.2 board level. Microtech introduced the LT8s advertising a new 32 bit processor, said that they would offer continuous software updates for the ECU and tuning software. And now more than a decade later, how many software updates have their been? Zero.

The ECU has been acceptable to me. It is a very reliable ECU. Easy to tune to a point. But once you reach that point you are stuck. There really is no way to refine a tune. The poor interpolation (seriously, vacuum bins ever 5"?!?!) means that you'll never have both a smooth tune and an economical tune. With a refined Microtech map that I have a considerable amount of time into, my car starts up first try, idles cold, and runs fine. But I continually bump into the limitations of the Microtech. I can't run an idle valve. I can't control multiple fans (oh, and the fan control is idiotic...set an on point for the fan which is only adjustable in 2 degree steps, but the off point is hard coded at 5 degrees below that). I don't have extra inputs to monitor sensors. The data logging is terrible. No closed loop so there is lean section in my map for cruise that the engine occasionally hits at light throttle acceleration. And the timing, oh the timing. It's a complete compromise. Without a 3D table I can't bring in nearly as much timing as I want at decal because the correction curve is very limiting. I also can't increase the timing in the cruise area because one can't be too aggressive with the base RPM curve as the stupid correction curve needed (think mechanical and vacuum advance, virtualised) can't compensate properly as the engine goes into boost in those areas.

Fundamentally, the Microtech works. If your tuner is familiar with it, then that ECU might be the best choice.

Though at that point I would recommend a better tuner.

There are MUCH better choices these days for equivalent or less money as already laid out in this thread.

For a track only car, if that's the question, then the Microtech works fine. A lot of the refinement we need on the street isn't needed on the track. But where it starts to fall apart as a track only ECU is the fact it datalogs about as effectively as a passenger writing down numbers on a clipboard during the run. So if you don't care about datalogging, but want a solid, reliable and easy to understand ECU, then the Microtech is fine for your track car.

I'd also like to point out that looking at some AutoX videos and then saying "that car runs fine because it's not choppy" is in no way a way to evaluate an ECU. No ECU should run "choppy" on a track scenario. The track is about quick throttle transitions and big changes, exactly where basically any ECU will do the job.

ACR_RX-7

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for providing input, Aaron. I kept trying to say the same things over and over again and felt like I was talking to a wall.

I still stand by what I said before. A person can get so many more features for about the same price, especially the improved datalogging. In any racing situation, datalogging is key to maintain and edge and make sure the car is running well. The poor interpolation and map resolution also seems to me like a huge limitation in any situation, especially with the newer controllers on the market.