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-   -   FC S4 NA Changed Alternator Now Won't Start (https://www.rx7club.com/new-member-rx-7-technical-256/fc-s4-na-changed-alternator-now-wont-start-994989/)

satch 04-23-12 07:23 PM

Not sure when the last time it was that this car ran properly but when the car dies out it is under situations where the car is under load and it seems you have to have the engine warmed up fairly well before you can place load on the engine w/o it dying. The BAC helps to offset the load placed on the engine so it needs to be addessed.

jharris2188 04-23-12 07:45 PM


Originally Posted by satch (Post 11066016)
Not sure when the last time it was that this car ran properly but when the car dies out it is under situations where the car is under load and it seems you have to have the engine warmed up fairly well before you can place load on the engine w/o it dying. The BAC helps to offset the load placed on the engine so it needs to be addessed.

10-4 Should have time toward the end of the week to go through everything. Off topic, this tach look like it will work...only one I can find is at sears.

Tach at Sears

jharris2188 04-26-12 05:28 PM

Quick question.

Back under/by the throttle body is a 3 wire connection, looks like one is a green/brown wire...what is this one for?

satch 04-26-12 05:34 PM


Originally Posted by jharris2188 (Post 11069668)
Quick question.

Back under/by the throttle body is a 3 wire connection, looks like one is a green/brown wire...what is this one for?

More info needed.

jharris2188 04-26-12 05:39 PM


Originally Posted by satch (Post 11069676)
More info needed.

Kinda hard to see in there, will try to get a closer look. The wire diagrams are 'fun' to read.

jharris2188 04-28-12 10:09 AM


Originally Posted by satch (Post 11069676)
More info needed.

Was looking at something else, green tps wire connection broke. Had a different one in glove box.

jharris2188 04-28-12 10:11 AM

Had the running, not great but firing up...I'd say decent. Now, the next day I have lost spark to the plugs...killing me :) Battery is good, fuses are good, can't find a different fuse that may have blown somewhere else.

jharris2188 04-28-12 10:13 AM

Trying to search the forum but appears to be missing 'spark' as well :)

satch 04-28-12 11:05 AM

Does the Black/Yellow wire at the leading coil (two wire plug) have voltage w/key to on? This wire powers the coil.

jharris2188 04-28-12 11:20 AM


Originally Posted by satch (Post 11071553)
Does the Black/Yellow wire at the leading coil (two wire plug) have voltage w/key to on? This wire powers the coil.

No, I could not get a reading on the leading...12v dc is what it should be?

jharris2188 04-28-12 11:22 AM


Originally Posted by jharris2188 (Post 11071567)
No, I could not get a reading on the leading...12v dc is what it should be?

40 amp EGI INJ fuse is brand new, 15 amp Engine fuse in the interior fuse is good.

satch 04-28-12 11:26 AM


Originally Posted by jharris2188 (Post 11071567)
No, I could not get a reading on the leading...12v dc is what it should be?

There's a Green check connector with four wires next to the battery/leading coil area and one of these wires is Black/White, and the other three are Yellow based. W/key to on does the Black/White wire have voltage. If it doesn't then the Main Relay is probably not relaying the voltage as it should.

jharris2188 04-28-12 11:30 AM


Originally Posted by satch (Post 11071575)
There's a Green check connector with four wires next to the battery/leading coil area and one of these wires is Black/White, and the other three are Yellow based. W/key to on does the Black/White wire have voltage. If it doesn't then the Main Relay is probably not relaying the voltage as it should.

10-4

I found this post that has a lot of similar q/a's - starting with what you just said :)

https://www.rx7club.com/new-member-rx-7-technical-256/86-rx7-ignition-problems-957088/

The search function is not working for me so I have to google and find posts from there.

jharris2188 04-28-12 11:53 AM

Quick question, may need to take a pic.

Between the trailing coil and the firewall against the inside of the quarter panel is a 6 (possibly 8 pin) blue connector - only blue connector over there...wdo you know what that is?

I ask because there is a jumper wire on there.

satch 04-28-12 12:00 PM


Originally Posted by jharris2188 (Post 11071602)
Quick question, may need to take a pic.

Between the trailing coil and the firewall against the inside of the quarter panel is a 6 (possibly 8 pin) blue connector - only blue connector over there...wdo you know what that is?

I ask because there is a jumper wire on there.

That's part of the starter circuit and the jumper passes voltage from the ignition switch to the wire that runs to the starter solenoid. This is normal for cars w/o the Starter Cut Relay associated w/cars equipped w/factory alarm. What's up w/the B/W wire at the check connector.

jharris2188 04-28-12 12:02 PM


Originally Posted by satch (Post 11071606)
That's part of the starter circuit and the jumper passes voltage from the ignition switch to the wire that runs to the starter solenoid. This is normal for cars w/o the Starter Cut Relay associated w/cars equipped w/factory alarm. What's up w/the B/W wire at the check connector.

Going to check it ASAP - Walked outside and the door closed and locked behind me to my dad's shop. Waiting on him to get back with key...

jharris2188 04-28-12 12:57 PM


Originally Posted by satch (Post 11071606)
That's part of the starter circuit and the jumper passes voltage from the ignition switch to the wire that runs to the starter solenoid. This is normal for cars w/o the Starter Cut Relay associated w/cars equipped w/factory alarm. What's up w/the B/W wire at the check connector.

B/W wire at the check connector w/key on is 2.4 volts

jharris2188 04-28-12 12:59 PM


Originally Posted by satch (Post 11071606)
That's part of the starter circuit and the jumper passes voltage from the ignition switch to the wire that runs to the starter solenoid. This is normal for cars w/o the Starter Cut Relay associated w/cars equipped w/factory alarm. What's up w/the B/W wire at the check connector.

Black/Yellow wire at the leading coil w/ key on is 2.39 volts

jharris2188 04-28-12 01:01 PM

Should the electric fan come on with key/on all of the time?

satch 04-28-12 04:10 PM


Originally Posted by jharris2188 (Post 11071642)
Black/Yellow wire at the leading coil w/ key on is 2.39 volts

Does the Main Relay click w/key to on. The relay has two plugs. One of the plugs has two wires. The B/W wire should have battery voltage w/key to on. Does it? And the second wire is Black and it is a ground and thus should have no voltage.

In the other relay plug which has four wires there is White/Blue wire and Black/Green wire which should have constant battery voltage (no key necessary). If either wire does not have constant voltage then either the EGI fuse(s) is bad or the connection under the fuse box is loose.

jharris2188 04-28-12 07:16 PM


Originally Posted by satch (Post 11071773)
Does the Main Relay click w/key to on. The relay has two plugs. One of the plugs has two wires. The B/W wire should have battery voltage w/key to on. Does it? And the second wire is Black and it is a ground and thus should have no voltage.

In the other relay plug which has four wires there is White/Blue wire and Black/Green wire which should have constant battery voltage (no key necessary). If either wire does not have constant voltage then either the EGI fuse(s) is bad or the connection under the fuse box is loose.

Internet is sucking today, just got this updated post. Might not be till the am to check. Good news is I received my $10 FSM today which is a heck of a lot easier to read then the printed out version :)

Just to confirm, main relay is right above where my starter cut circuit is jumpered, on the blue connector?

satch 04-28-12 07:25 PM


Originally Posted by jharris2188 (Post 11071906)
Internet is sucking today, just got this updated post. Might not be till the am to check. Good news is I received my $10 FSM today which is a heck of a lot easier to read then the printed out version :)

Just to confirm, main relay is right above where my starter cut circuit is jumpered, on the blue connector?

Pretty much so. It's bolted to the fender and has the two plugs and associated wires as described.

jharris2188 04-30-12 10:19 AM


Originally Posted by satch (Post 11071773)
Does the Main Relay click w/key to on. The relay has two plugs. One of the plugs has two wires. The B/W wire should have battery voltage w/key to on. Does it? And the second wire is Black and it is a ground and thus should have no voltage.

In the other relay plug which has four wires there is White/Blue wire and Black/Green wire which should have constant battery voltage (no key necessary). If either wire does not have constant voltage then either the EGI fuse(s) is bad or the connection under the fuse box is loose.

The main relay no longer clicking w/key on. Checked the EGI fuse (good) and the connection, also good. Is there a way to test the main relay, like applying voltage to it to see if it clicks - don't wan to to fry that :)

Going through the FSM it appears the ignition switch is dead/malfunctioning.

jharris2188 04-30-12 12:46 PM


Originally Posted by satch (Post 11071773)
Does the Main Relay click w/key to on. The relay has two plugs. One of the plugs has two wires. The B/W wire should have battery voltage w/key to on. Does it? And the second wire is Black and it is a ground and thus should have no voltage.

In the other relay plug which has four wires there is White/Blue wire and Black/Green wire which should have constant battery voltage (no key necessary). If either wire does not have constant voltage then either the EGI fuse(s) is bad or the connection under the fuse box is loose.


White/Blue wire has same voltage as battery and Black/Green wire has no reading.

Don't see a b/w into the main relay.

satch 04-30-12 01:07 PM


Originally Posted by jharris2188 (Post 11073697)
White/Blue wire has same voltage as battery and Black/Green wire has no reading.

Don't see a b/w into the main relay.

The B/G wire comes from the engine fuse box and is powered by the EGI INJ fuse so either the fuse is bad or the wire is loose underneath the fuse box as suggested earlier or the wire is grounded out, so you need to see which of these possibilities it is and shouldn't be too hard to figure out. As for the B/W wire, it's located in the two wire plug of the Main Relay. If one wire is Black then the other wire must be B/W but if the B/G wire in the four wire plug is w/o voltage then this is likely your problem and not the B/W wire..

jharris2188 04-30-12 01:55 PM


Originally Posted by satch (Post 11073728)
The B/G wire comes from the engine fuse box and is powered by the EGI INJ fuse so either the fuse is bad or the wire is loose underneath the fuse box as suggested earlier or the wire is grounded out, so you need to see which of these possibilities it is and shouldn't be too hard to figure out. As for the B/W wire, it's located in the two wire plug of the Main Relay. If one wire is Black then the other wire must be B/W but if the B/G wire in the four wire plug is w/o voltage then this is likely your problem and not the B/W wire..

Will double check the connection and buy a few more fuses.

jharris2188 05-01-12 03:23 PM


Originally Posted by jharris2188 (Post 11073697)
White/Blue wire has same voltage as battery and Black/Green wire has no reading.

Don't see a b/w into the main relay.

OK - Got it:

B/G has 12v

W/B has 12v

B/W @ main relay has 1.9v
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
B/W under dash in the white clip for the Open Circuit Relay has 2v

jharris2188 05-01-12 03:29 PM


Originally Posted by jharris2188 (Post 11073778)
Will double check the connection and buy a few more fuses.

To clarify and add one thing:

The main relay 4 prong connector has 12v.
The main relay b/w and black has the 1.8v

The four prong check connector next to the leading has about 1.35v

satch 05-01-12 04:07 PM


Originally Posted by jharris2188 (Post 11075265)
To clarify and add one thing:

The main relay 4 prong connector has 12v.
The main relay b/w and black has the 1.8v

The four prong check connector next to the leading has about 1.35v

I'm thinking the B/W wire at the Main Relay would have voltage w/key to on? Is this how you measured it?
If this relay clicks w/key to on then the B/W wire has the proper voltage and the B/Y and B/W coming from the 4 wire relay plug would have battery voltage w/key to on as well if the B/W wire from the two wire plug relay had proper voltage.

jharris2188 05-01-12 04:10 PM


Originally Posted by satch (Post 11075300)
I'm thinking the B/W wire at the Main Relay would have voltage w/key to on? Is this how you measured it?

Yes

satch 05-01-12 04:17 PM


Originally Posted by jharris2188 (Post 11075302)
Yes


Are you sure the 15 amp Engine fuse is good? This is the fuse that powers the B/W wire in the 2 wire plug. If the fuse was good then the B/W wire at the Circuit Opening Relay, top row middle position, would have voltage w/key to on as both of these B/W wires are powered by the same fuse.

jharris2188 05-01-12 05:50 PM


Originally Posted by satch (Post 11075306)
Are you sure the 15 amp Engine fuse is good? This is the fuse that powers the B/W wire in the 2 wire plug. If the fuse was good then the B/W wire at the Circuit Opening Relay, top row middle position, would have voltage w/key to on as both of these B/W wires are powered by the same fuse.

Fuse is good; checked and re-checked.
I had 12v to the b/w a few days ago...now it is giving the 2v.

Could the ignition switch be causing this?

JoshB120 05-01-12 06:01 PM

indeed

satch 05-01-12 06:08 PM


Originally Posted by jharris2188 (Post 11075399)
Fuse is good; checked and re-checked.
I had 12v to the b/w a few days ago...now it is giving the 2v.

Could the ignition switch be causing this?

Lets apply some common sense to the situation. If the Engine fuse powers different items and some of these items have voltage w/key to on while the others did not then the ignition switch could not be the cause. This is why you were asked to check the wire at the Circuit Opening Relay. If you don't want to check that wire then check the B/W wire at the back of the alternator as it is also powered by the same Engine fuse.

JoshB120 05-01-12 06:10 PM

nice

jharris2188 05-01-12 06:29 PM


Originally Posted by satch (Post 11075416)
Lets apply some common sense to the situation. If the Engine fuse powers different items and some of these items have voltage w/key to on while the others did not then the ignition switch could not be the cause. This is why you were asked to check the wire at the Circuit Opening Relay. If you don't want to check that wire then check the B/W wire at the back of the alternator as it is also powered by the same Engine fuse.

I checked the b/w wire for the relay, under the dash. It is putting out about 2 volts w/key on. The interior ENG fuse under there being good is what is confusing me.

jharris2188 05-01-12 06:30 PM


Originally Posted by satch (Post 11075416)
Lets apply some common sense to the situation. If the Engine fuse powers different items and some of these items have voltage w/key to on while the others did not then the ignition switch could not be the cause. This is why you were asked to check the wire at the Circuit Opening Relay. If you don't want to check that wire then check the B/W wire at the back of the alternator as it is also powered by the same Engine fuse.

Is there another source that could be limiting the voltage besides the interior ENG fuse...?

Battery is @ 12+ volts

satch 05-01-12 06:37 PM


Originally Posted by jharris2188 (Post 11075445)
I checked the b/w wire for the relay, under the dash. It is putting out about 2 volts w/key on. The interior ENG fuse under there being good is what is confusing me.

Then you'll need to check a two wire plug under the dash that connects to the ignition switch. The plug from the Front harness has two wires, one is solid Black and the other wire is Black/White. The pigtail of wires coming from the ignition switch is only about a foot long so it should be rather easy to locate this two wire plug. The wires are rather thick. The Black wire has constant voltage as it is connected to your battery. The B/W wire should have voltage w/key to on. This wire powers the Engine fuse that powers the alternator, Circuit Opening Relay , Main Relay and another relay on automatics.

jharris2188 05-01-12 06:39 PM


Originally Posted by jharris2188 (Post 11075445)
I checked the b/w wire for the relay, under the dash. It is putting out about 2 volts w/key on. The interior ENG fuse under there being good is what is confusing me.

The b/w opening relay had the same as the battery voltage a few days ago and now it is at the 2volts. Replaced every fuse.

jharris2188 05-01-12 06:40 PM


Originally Posted by satch (Post 11075455)
Then you'll need to check a two wire plug under the dash that connects to the ignition switch. The plug from the Front harness has two wires, one is solid Black and the other wire is Black/White. The pigtail of wires coming from the ignition switch is only about a foot long so it should be rather easy to locate this two wire plug. The wires are rather thick. The Black wire has constant voltage as it is connected to your battery. The B/W wire should have voltage w/key to on. This wire powers the Engine fuse that powers the alternator, Circuit Opening Relay , Main Relay and another relay on automatics.

The Black is rather thick compared to the others, right? Very noticeable difference.

satch 05-01-12 06:42 PM

And one way to prove that the ignition switch is bein powered by the battery would be to see if either the wipers or turn signals work w/key to on. If they don't then the switch is not receiving voltage from the battery.

satch 05-01-12 06:43 PM


Originally Posted by jharris2188 (Post 11075462)
The Black is rather thick compared to the others, right? Very noticeable difference.

Pretty much so. If it has constant voltage, no key necessary, then it's what you are looking for.

jharris2188 05-01-12 07:04 PM


Originally Posted by satch (Post 11075467)
Pretty much so. If it has constant voltage, no key necessary, then it's what you are looking for.

Will check that in a few just to confirm.

Do you know if an 1988 Mazda 323 ignition switch is the same as an the s4?

Found one local, brand new for 50 bucks, but the parts shops use the same photo for all of them.

satch 05-01-12 07:06 PM

I wouldn't know, but I doubt it. If you checked out the item at an online web site that supplies these switches then it should also tell you if their item number is the same or what other vehicles the part is compatible with.

jharris2188 05-01-12 07:28 PM


Originally Posted by satch (Post 11075467)
Pretty much so. If it has constant voltage, no key necessary, then it's what you are looking for.

Two prong connector, thick black has battery voltage with no key.
Same connection, b/w wire has about 2v w/key on.

satch 05-01-12 07:40 PM


Originally Posted by jharris2188 (Post 11075523)
Two prong connector, thick black has battery voltage with no key.
Same connection, b/w wire has about 2v w/key on.

Sounds like the ignition switch is misbehaving.

jharris2188 05-01-12 07:48 PM


Originally Posted by satch (Post 11075536)
Sounds like the ignition switch is misbehaving.

Is replacing the switch pretty easy or should I get a new cylinder/switch combo already wired up and worry about re-keying later?

jharris2188 05-01-12 07:49 PM

Also, is there a way to 'jumper' past this just to confirm?

satch 05-01-12 07:59 PM


Originally Posted by jharris2188 (Post 11075550)
Also, is there a way to 'jumper' past this just to confirm?

I guess you could disconnect the two wire plug, jumper the Black wire, turn key to on, measure the wire that would have connected the B/W wire for voltage. If it doesn't have it then you verified the switch is the problem. When these things go bad it is usually the pigtail/switch part and not the key cylinder but this is not always the case.

jharris2188 05-01-12 08:06 PM


Originally Posted by satch (Post 11075566)
I guess you could disconnect the two wire plug, jumper the Black wire, turn key to on, measure the wire that would have connected the B/W wire for voltage. If it doesn't have it then you verified the switch is the problem. When these things go bad it is usually the pigtail/switch part and not the key cylinder but this is not always the case.

Just found a guy with working ignition and will give me the keys and all of the locks for $70 - decent price?


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