satch

iTrader: (1)

If you have fuel and spark then your engine needs to be deflooded "properly." To do this you need to disconnect the fuel pump. I wouldn't trust your fuel cut switch as it may not be working properly. After the pump has been unplugged you should spray "at most two seconds of starter spray into the air intake tubing" followed by trying to start the car (that's two seconds of starter spray at most). Then try to start the car. Now common sense dictates the car cannot start up and continously run because there is no fuel. If things work properly then the car should start up and die out after a couple of seconds. This helps burn off any of the excess fuel that might be contributing to your starting problem. Do this procedure two, maybe three times, and then reconnect the fuel pump and try to start the car in a normal sense. You can disable the fuel pump by unplugging the Circuit Opening Relay.

mszlazak

I'm glad you asked because I haven't and was wondering how to go about this in an efficient way.

Do I need to unwrap that bundle and then what points would I use to "dial in" to specific wires to check for breaks or shorts?

Also, how do I disable that Circuit Opening Relay? Just unplug all of it?

satch

iTrader: (1)

There is no relay involved. W/key to on the Black/White wire at the back of the alternator is supposed to have 12 volts and it can be checked while unplugged. The White/Black wire in the same two wire plug has 12 volts w/key to on and unplugged. The same wire has close to 0 volts w/key to on and the W/B wire plugged into the back of the alternator.

mszlazak

OK, found something.

First, I did the de-flooding technique then tried starting. No luck.

Next, I unplugged that white T-connector from the back of the alternator and checked the B/W wire. It reads close to 12 volts w/key on.

However, with that connector plugged back in, the B/W wire still reads about 12 volts w/key on.

satch

iTrader: (1)

It's supposed to. The W/B wire is the one that will have a different reading.

mszlazak

w/key on:

B/W wire (plugged or unplugged) about 12 volts.

W/B wire (unplugged) about 12 volts.

W/B wire (plugged) about 1.75 volts.

satch

iTrader: (1)

They respond just as they are supposed to so you know these two wires of the Engine harness are just fine. You might want to test for spark unless the car fires up briefly w/the shot of starter fluid. If it does briefly fire up then you need to check the condition of the spark plugs and see if they're wet or not as they should not be. You also might want to put a teaspoon of oil into the spark plug holes (lower ones) so as to help build compression.

mszlazak

Would putting in an engine oil additive from Lucas have caused a problem? I did this earlier the day that all this happened last week. I'll try the oil technique you suggested but was wondering if that additive is somehow interfering with any oil getting into the combustion chamber at all.

Here is the additive:

http://www.lucasoil.com/products/dis...tid=7&loc=show


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mszlazak

Bottom two plugs where wet.
I dried them and put a bit of oil inside chambers.
Still couldn't start the car.

Now what?

Thank you.

satch

iTrader: (1)

"Sometimes" wet plugs are damaged plugs and have to be replaced. Some people use a hair dryer in an attempt to dry them off to revive them.

mszlazak

OK, i'll repalce all four and see where that gets me.

Let you know what happens.

Thanks very much for the help and patience.

mszlazak

Satch, I replaced all four spark plugs and still can't get it to run. I get ignition with the starter fluid but as before it stalls once that burns off. Tried about 4-5 times this way without any signs of improvement.

Could coolant have gotten into the chamber because a seal went?

Anyway, what should I do next?

Thanks.

satch

iTrader: (1)

You might want to pull start the car in an effort to get it to start. Another thing you might want to do is remove the CAS and spin its wheel w/the key to on as this will cause the injectors to fire and you can hear them click if they are firing. If you were to do this you would want to disconnect the White two wire plug to the leading coil and the two electrical plugs housing the six wires to the trailing coil because they will fire as well and the sound might drown out the sound of the injectors clicking. Another thing you might want to check is pin 2I of the ECU as this is the Water Thermosensor which regualtes the amount of fuel when starting the car as it might be injecting too little perhaps. W/key to on this pin should read between 2 to 3 volts.

As far as the coolant is concerned did the wet spark plugs (old ones) smell sweet? If the new plug(s) were removed such as the trailing (upper ones) can you smell coolant?

satch

iTrader: (1)

And measure pins 3C and 3E at the ECU w/key to on and this will tell you if the injector plugs are connected/seated properly to the primary injectors. A proper reading would be 12 volts w/key to on at both of these ECU pins.

mszlazak

I have not tried push starting yet because I wanted to check readings on those areas you mentioned.

** The voltage a 2I is about 11 volts w/key on.



The voltages at 3C and 3E are about 11 volts w/key on.


If I did this right, it looks like 2I has associated problems with the Water Thermosensor. Where is it and how do I change/fix it? Could it be a short in the wire leading to it, if so then which wire?

Thanks.

satch

iTrader: (1)

I've never heard of pin 2I reading 11 volts w/key to on. Did you measure pin "3I" by accident?

mszlazak

I used this page for pin locations and measured the top 5th pin of the middle connector.

http://rx7.pw.cx/guides_manuals/coll...0ecu%20pinout/

satch

iTrader: (1)

Then that is the correct pin. Next thing to do is figuring why pin 2I reads 11 volts w/key to on. Try measuring pin 2A (same plug top row far right position and the wire is Brown w/possibly a White stripe. W/key to on this wire/pin should read 5 volts w/key to on. If this checks out okay then measure either of the Black wires in the smallest plug w/key to on and pin 3A and pin 3G should have close to zero volts as both of these wires are grounds. So pin 2A, 3A and 3G need to be measured w/key to on.

mszlazak

w/key on:

2A about 4.5 volts.

3A and 3G are 0.0 volts.

satch

iTrader: (1)

That's good news. So at the back of and the top of the water pump lies the Water Thermosensor. It should have a Green plug connected to it that looks much like an injector plug. Pull the plug off and see if either of the two pins in the plug are pulled back some and thus not making good contact w/the contacts of the sensor itself. Again, w/key to on pin 2I should measure 2 to 3 volts w/key to on on a cold engine. After messing w/the plug at the sensor recheck the voltage at pin 2I.

mszlazak

If it's the place I'm looking at then that sensor must have been missing for a while since that hole is empty and dirty. Here is a picture of where I'm looking, it's the top middle portion of the picture with wires sticking out:



Also, I found what looks to be a connector that is attached to a broken portion of some sensor. Maybe this is that water sensor. Here is a picture that looks like the connector, it's the green one on the right. The broken end looks a bit old as well, like it's not a fresh break but I maybe wrong.



Have I found the right part?

satch

iTrader: (1)

In the first picture is a sensor for the electric fan on some models so that is not the Water Thermosensor. The sensor you need to find is located near the alternator and it's at the back of the water pump (screwed in) and in front of the engine. The connector in the second pic looks like the plug for it.

198713bt

iTrader: (2)

I just read this thread and I have to give you a huge pat on the back satch. If I finally get my car together and have any issues with wiring, you'll be my go to guy. Do you have this stuff memorized or are you just looking through the miserable Mazda diagrams? Either way mszlazak owes you a couple cases of beer for the time spent. Well done!

mszlazak

YES INDEED! Satch was terrific. Total patience with someone like me that virtually knows nothing about cars except for minor stuff.

Thanks again to satch.

mszlazak

OK satch it looks like I'll need to buy a part.

I did see that broken part but assumed it happened a long time ago because it looked like an old break ... apparently not.

I'll update as soon as I get it in.

Thanks again for all the help.