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During the process I was supplying power to the motors, for adjustment purposes, with a battery and cables through the power window motor wire harness.
I'm moving on to the headlight motors. Can I apply the same process to the headlight retractor motors to test their ability to independently go up and down?
I already know there is an issue in the system; as one - and not the other, popped up when I turned on the lights.
However, I had to manually retract it. Looking to find out if I can go through the connector with the cables, do the polarity / reverse polarity thing and get the motors to pop up and down?
so many forums it's hard for you to keep track of what and where you post things? just search the forum for your user name and find everything you have posted, what it was about, and the section it was posted in.
I replaced the fusible links. I tested (so I think) the circuit all the way to both headlight motors.
I've seen both go up upon turn of the headlight switch; though neither goes down when the switch is turned off.
When I first got the car I tried the lights, only the passenger side popped up. Today both popped up (remember, I did change the fusible links today), though neither would go down.
I cranked both closed, and they both popped up again when the light switch was turned..
With the light switch on,.when I try to crank the light closed they 'shutter' (for lack of a better term), as if they want to pop up because I'm forcing them manually and the circuit says they should be open
I independently put power to both motors. They both went up and down repeatedly as long as power was applied.
So, both motors work. Also, both bulbs do illuminate.
When I use the headlight lever OR the cluster switch ONLY the driver's side pops up. And, when I turn off either the headlight lever OR the cluster switch neither responds, and the driver's side down NOT retracted.
So, basically the motors work. Only the driver's side pops up, but it does not retract.
Can anyone provide insight into what this is and whether it's mechanical wellbeing may be the source, or a contributing factor, in my pop up headlights issue?
first I checked the fusible link for the retractor just to be sure and although I I knew that the motors wouldn't operate at all if the link was blown, you sort of get to the point where you begin to doubt yourself with these kind of problems. The link was ok so next I swapped out the headlight rocker switch for another one.... still no joy.
Next I pulled off the steering wheel, ignition cowling and combi switch.... got it on the bench, tested it, stripped it, cleaned the internal contacts, reassembled it, put it back on the car and.................................nothing
I then got out the mutlimeter and started methodically checking the lighting circuit. I had 12v at the rocker switch in the down position but not at the connector to the headlight motors. I did what Dave suggested and put a flying lead between the rocker switch and the motor connector 'down' circuit and still nothing happened. I then decided the break into the loom to test the conductivity of the retract wire and found the problem.
The pop up headlight motors only go in one direction, not reverse as many people think. There are two signal or trigger wires, a red wire triggers the 'up' and a red wire with a yellow stripe triggers the 'down'
When the lights are switched on via the combi switch or the headlight rocker switch is switched to 'on', the red wire goes to +12v, the red/yellow wire goes to 0v and the crank on the headlight motor rotates 1/2 a turn until the built in relay cuts the power.... at this point the lights are in the raised position.
When the combi switch or the rocker switch are turned to 'off' the red/yellow wire goes to +12v and the red wire to 0v and the motor then operates another 1/2 turn until the lights are down and the relay cuts the power.
The red/yellow 'down' wire runs with the rest of the loom from the dash, through the bulkhead, and then along the offside chassis rail to the front of the car where it turns and runs along the round tube in front of the radiator and then back along the nearside chassis rail. Halfway along the round chassis tube the red/yellow wire splits into 2.... one wire then doubles back to feed the o/s headlight motor and the other one continues on to feed the n/s headlight motor.
I unwrapped a section of loom just past the o/s suspension tower, found the red/yellow trigger wire and tested it at this point and found that it was showing the correct voltage here according to the switch position. The same wire at the motors was not showing any voltage though so there was obviously a break somewhere. As I didn't want to keep unwrapping the loom to find the break I got the soldering iron out and spliced a couple of wires into the red/yellow 'down' wire at this point and then ran this with the existing loom to the headlight motors.
This solved the problem and the lights now work fine again. I've had this problem with the headlights retracting for about a year but in the past they have gone back down of their own accord, sometimes a few minutes after I turned the lights off, sometimes a few hours..... this week though they just went up and stayed there.
I'm still a bit mystified why they didn't retract when I connected the flying lead up but who cares? They are ok now
I had a bit of a despairing moment though....when it was all back together and I drove it out of the garage I looked at the engine and saw loads of water on top of the inlet I put stainless core plugs in and rtv when I put the Elford inlet on so couldn't believe that they would leak but there was a load of water on the inlet. This would have taken the car off the road for the rest of this year because it's a major job to strip off the whole of the Elford setup to get to the core plugs / inlet manifold and I just haven't got the time ( or the inclination) to do that. I then remembered that to get to the loom I'd had to remove the rad expansion bottle and I'd rested it out of the way on top of the engine...... hence the source of the water..... thank **** for that!"
Last edited by KansasCityREPU; 11-22-20 at 09:32 PM.
if it hasn't already been offered in any of these many threads u have created. download a copy of the manuals and wiring diagrams. these will help u identify things.
Whomever put this dash in pushed the cluster switch connector behind the instrument cluster.
I can't get the instrument cluster out; can't reach the speedo-cable connector on back.
Took steering wheel off. Too deep, too tight for me to get under the dash reach, grab and disconnect.
That said, I did disconnect the headlight lever and tried the lights. Both try to go up. The LH goes all the way up. The RH pops up about an inch and stops.
Neither goes down when the lever is turned off. If I try to crank the RH closed with the headlight lever 'on' the manual **** goes a turn or two, the motor gets to some limiter (apparently), and shutters - can't crank all the way closed with power applied.
If I crank the RH all the way open, it hits (apparently) another limiter and cycle from the one inch open to fully open, then closed, then opens that one inch again where it stops.
I also disassembled the ground to the motors located on each fender and cleaned it all up.
Then with the battery pulled, and approaching from the motor connector and applied power.
Applying power only worked on one terminal of the connector; this caused each motor to go up and down repeatedly until power was removed.
There was no terminal that caused either motor to go up and stay up.
rotate the top of the instrument cluster towards you 90 degrees, then you can access the back and pull the cluster out.
japanese have small hands
your up down headlights are from the headlight up switch (center consul ) being messed up. first try using it to raise the headlights without turning the head lights on.
Last edited by midnight mechanic; 11-25-20 at 12:02 AM.
I traced for continuity and power from the cluster switch and headlight lever all the way through to the headlight motors.
I found no errors. Continuity and power appear to be appropriate throughout.
I tested the lights with only one switch connected at a time. There was no difference in operation with one connected or both - the LH pops up completely, the RH pops up an inch. Neither goes down.
I disassembled the cluster switch and cleaned it, as well as around the lever.
Also, with the power off and the LH unit already up, I manually fully opened the RH unit. With both units fully open, I energized the system, one at a time, through the switch and the lever, the RH unit closed, the LH stayed open.
Its as if the LH and RH are wired opposite of each other; though that doesn't explain why when it tries to open the RH unit only opens an inch.
Hint on getting more slack to take the cluster out is to disconnect the sped-o cable from the trans. This will allow more slack. You'll still need to tilt it forward at the top but this make it easier.
Got the cluster out. Cleaned everything up, new bulbs, new fuses, checked and secured all connections and grounds. Disassembled, cleaned and greased the combo switch, powered her up...
Light!🤙🏾
Also, disassembled the RH headlight motor linkage and cycled it through; put it all back together with a little lube, and walla, pop up lights are synchronized and working fine now.
Thanks guys and gals, for all your words and help.
New power mirrors come next week. Once they are in I can finish reassembling the interior.😁
11-14-20, 11:10 AM
