So I finished my S5 FC project, only the car won't start

I have an S4 motor in an S5 shell with S5 turbocharger, twin fuel pump, and full "3 exhaust. Everything else is stock. I'm running an LTX-8 with a LC-1 wideband O2 sensor, and for some reason I can't get my car to run on Silverrotor's base map. It cranks and fires but usually doesn't want to start. Whenever I do get it to start I have to keep the revs up or it stalls out. It smells real rich, but my AFR is jumping all over the place so I don't know what to make of it. I tried toying around with the settings, but had little luck. All the while I have a cloud of white smoke pouring out the back.

I can't tell if it's just because of the premix oil or if I have a blown motor or something.

I'm really running out of ideas here...

 

Did you do a free-air calibration of the LC-1?

 

Show me the map you used and tell me what injectors you used.

 

yea, I did the calibration of the LC1, it is functioning correctly. I used Silverrotor's map, and the injectors (I believe) are stock. I got this car with the injectors hooked up as they are. I heard the part number on them denotes them as stock 550cc injectors.

I did find out what my problem may be however. Apparently I didn't notice but the MAP gauge on the DATA gauges display of my laptop software, does NOT venture at all from atmospheric. So I suppose I plugged it into a bad vacuum line, and thus the EMS thought it should dump in more fuel, hence the 10.6 on the richter err... AFR scale. Hopefully I'll yank this apart tomorrow and see, what's what.

Thanks for the help guys!

 

Ok. So all that may have been amiss has been corrected, but still my starting problems persist. So far I've only been able to get the car to start if I use the MIXtrm option and lean out by %20 or more. I was scared of this because the readings I was getting from the wideband were around 15 or 16 AFR. Funny thing is the car still smelled rich as hell, and wouldn't run if it was set any richer. I finally got to the obvious conclusion that I have somehow set the LC-1 controller up backwards or something, and thus I'm getting an incorrect AFR.

The factory LC-1 setting is to use 0-1v when simulating the narrow band for the EMS. In this setup high voltage is richer and low voltage is leaner. Since my car runs rich at idle and leans out as the revs climb (according to the AFR) should I try setting it backwards? any ideas?

EDIT: There is clearly a range of AFR values for the LTX8. From my experience they seem to be from 10.6 to 16.0. Does anybody know the input and display parameters that I should be using?

 

Show us your map?

 

I don't know if it makes a difference for the LTX-8 but I'm using the stock 550cc LOW impedance (tan) injectors. And like I said I'm using silverrotors base map, didn't want to lengthen my thread with it, but here it is:

Idle Map
Screen 1

30" ~ 1.33
25" ~ 1.48
20" ~ 1.93
15" ~ 2.38
10" ~ 2.48
05" ~ 3.48
00" ~ 4.0
2-20psi ~ 4.95

Load Map
Screen 3

30" ~ 1.76
25" ~ 1.86
20" ~ 1.95
15" ~ 2.24
10" ~ 2.90
05" ~ 3.90
00" ~ 4.81
2psi ~ 5.62
4psi ~ 6.10
6psi ~ 7.14
8psi ~ 7.86
10psi ~ 8.48
12psi ~ ???
14psi ~ 8.71
16psi ~ 9.00
18psi ~ 9.48
20psi ~ 10.00

RPMwot Map Screen 17 &
RPMcrs Screen 18 expressed as a percentage with all values set at zero.

Pump Map
Screen 19

Pump2Start ~ 2000
Pump1Amt ~ 10
Pump1Pulse ~ 02
Pump1Trig ~ 14
Pump1Stop ~ 00
Pump1Adv ~ 05

Pump2Time ~ 10
Pump2Amt ~ 30
Pump2Trig ~ 16
Pump2Stop ~ 00
Pump2Adv ~ 05

PumpDwell ~ 3.00
PumpTimers ~ No
Pump1Sync ~ No
PumpSpare ~ 00
PumpCold ~ 00

Water Map
Screen 20

-25 ~ 0
-17 ~ 70
-9 ~ 60
-1 ~ 55
5 ~ 50
11 ~ 50
18 ~ 45
24 ~ 35
31 ~ 30
38 ~ 20
46 ~ 15
60 ~ 12
68 ~ 8
82 ~ 0
99 ~ 0
124 ~ 0

Air_t Map
Screen 21

-25 ~ 0
-17 ~ 8
-9 ~ 6
-1 ~ 5
5 ~ 4
11 ~ 3
18 ~ 3
24 ~ 0
31 ~ 0
38 ~ 0
46 ~ 0
60 ~ 0
68 ~ 0
82 ~ 0
99 ~ 0
124 ~ 0

Crank Map
Screen 22

-25 ~ 72
-17 ~ 72
-9 ~ 72
-1 ~ 67
5 ~ 62
11 ~ 57
18 ~ 50
24 ~ 41
31 ~ 31
38 ~ 26
46 ~ 20
60 ~ 15
68 ~ 5
82 ~ 0
99 ~ 0
124 ~ 0

t*rpm
Screen 23

Idle ~ 00
1000 ~ 10
1500 ~ 15
2000 ~ 20
2500 ~ 25
3000 ~ 25
3500 ~ 25
4000 ~ 25
4500 ~ 25
5000 ~ 25
5500 ~ 25
6000 ~ 25
6500 ~ 25
7000 ~ 25
7500 ~ ??
8000 ~ 25
9000 ~ 25

t*map Map
Screen 24

Idle ~ 00
25 ~ 05
20 ~ 04
15 ~ 03
10 ~ 02
05 ~ 00
00 ~ 00
2psi ~ 00
4psi ~ 00
6psi ~ 00
8psi ~ -02
10psi ~ -03
12psi ~ ???
14psi ~ -04
16psi ~ -05
18 psi ~ -06
20 psi ~ -06

t*air Screen 25
Correction value Is expressed as number of degrees you wish to advance or Retard to the Ignition curve and values Is set at zero.

t*gap
Screen 26

0500 ~ 15
1000 ~ 15
1500 ~ 15
2000 ~ 14
2500 ~ 12
3000 ~ 10
3500 ~ 10
4000 ~ 10
4500 ~ 10
5000 ~ 10
5500 ~ 10
6000 ~ 10
6500 ~ 10
7000 ~ 10
8000 ~ 10

t*Inj Map
Screen 27

0500 ~ 120
1000 ~ 150
1500 ~ 150
2000 ~ 150
2500 ~ 150
3000 ~ 150
3500 ~ 180
4000 ~ 180
4500 ~ 210
5000 ~ 210
5500 ~ 210
6000 ~ 240
6500 ~ 240
7000 ~ 270
8000 ~ 270
9000 ~ 270

t*wat Map Screen 28
Correction value Is expressed as number of degrees you wish to advance or Retard to the Ignition curve and values Is set at zero.

Option Map
Screen 30

Af_StE ~ 10
Dwell ~ 3.00 *set at Time Base - not at Duty Cycle*
REVstg ~ 3000
MAPstg ~ 05"
%stg ~ 50

 

I dont see any problems with that map.

Have you done a compression test?
Have you put a new set of spark plugs in it?

 

I did a poor man's compression test (since I don't have a tester) and the plugs work (pulled one plug at a time and watched them arc).

At this point I'm thinking it might have something to do with my low impedance 550cc injectors. I think SilverRotor's map was made for high impedance 550cc injectors. The reason I have for thinking this is that I can get the car to run if I lean it out using MIXtrm by 20% or more. Is this a decent way of going about it? or is there some other variable I could change?

 

Put this in and tell me if it helps.


Idle Map
Screen 1

30" ~ 1.33
25" ~ 1.48
20" ~ 1.43
15" ~ 1.86
10" ~ 2.48
05" ~ 3.48
00" ~ 4.0
2-20psi ~ 4.95

Load Map
Screen 3

30" ~ 1.52
25" ~ 1.52
20" ~ 1.52
15" ~ 1.91
10" ~ 2.5
05" ~ 3.50
00" ~ 4.4
2psi ~ 5.62
4psi ~ 6.10
6psi ~ 7.14
8psi ~ 7.86
10psi ~ 8.48
12psi ~ ???
14psi ~ 8.71
16psi ~ 9.00
18psi ~ 9.48
20psi ~ 10.00

Pump Map
Screen 19

Pump2Start ~ 2000
Pump1Amt ~ 15
Pump1Pulse ~ 03
Pump1Trig ~ 13
Pump1Stop ~ 00
Pump1Adv ~ 05

Pump2Time ~ 10
Pump2Amt ~ 30
Pump2Trig ~ 16
Pump2Stop ~ 00
Pump2Adv ~ 05

PumpDwell ~ 3.00
PumpTimers ~ No
Pump1Sync ~ No
PumpSpare ~ 00
PumpCold ~ 00

Water Map
Screen 20

-25 ~ 0
-17 ~ 70
-9 ~ 60
-1 ~ 55
5 ~ 50
11 ~ 50
18 ~ 45
24 ~ 35
31 ~ 30
38 ~ 20
46 ~ 15
60 ~ 12
68 ~ 8
82 ~ 0
99 ~ 0
124 ~ 0

Crank Map
Screen 22

-25 ~ 72
-17 ~ 72
-9 ~ 72
-1 ~ 67
5 ~ 62
11 ~ 50
18 ~ 46
24 ~ 38
31 ~ 31
38 ~ 26
46 ~ 20
60 ~ 15
68 ~ 5
82 ~ 0
99 ~ 0
124 ~ 0

t*map Map
Screen 24

Idle ~ 00
25 ~ 05
20 ~ 04
15 ~ 03
10 ~ 02
05 ~ 00
00 ~ 00
2psi ~ 00
4psi ~ -02
6psi ~ -04
8psi ~ -06
10psi ~ -08
14psi ~ -12
16psi ~ -14
18 psi ~ -14
20 psi ~ -16

t*Inj Map
Screen 27

0500 ~ 120
1000 ~ 150
1500 ~ 150
2000 ~ 150
2500 ~ 150
3000 ~ 150
3500 ~ 150
4000 ~ 180
4500 ~ 210
5000 ~ 210
5500 ~ 210
6000 ~ 240
6500 ~ 240
7000 ~ 270
8000 ~ 270
9000 ~ 270

Punch that in.

 

And just cause plugs arc etc dosnt mean they are working correctly.

Ideally you should put a new set of plugs in.

 

Ok, so I decided to redo my compression test properly with a gauge so I didn't go spending $150 on new NGK plugs and wires in case my problem required me to spend alot more money.

Keep in mind that this test was done on a cold engine in the rain and by myself so I couldn't look for individual apex seal damage. My front rotor blew an acceptable 100 psi, but the rear only gave me 80 psi. By the time I got to the rear the battery may have been a bit drained, so I'm charging it up now and will edit this post if I get better results.

???

In any case, at best it seems my engine is on life support. Its just that I seem to hear different ranges of acceptable compression does anyone know how bad this is for an 88 turbo motor?

 

Its not that bad.
it isnt the cause of your start up problems i dont think.

 

IT RUNS!!!!!

I got a local rotary guru to pay me a visit and he identified my problem as bad timing. The AFR is still off but I can get the car to start and idle pretty easy now. I'm pretty sure I can get all of this sorted at my local dyno shop. I figure if I can get a decent setup for driving around on the street. I can use that map for breaking in my engine after I rebuild it sometime in the future.

Thanks for all your help!

 

bump