Megasquirt V3.57 & Zeal- NO RPM/SPARK- 13B REW
03-30-10, 07:17 AM
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V3.57 & Zeal- NO RPM/SPARK- 13B REW
Hi, and greeting from Norway.!!
(I have this post at Moderator aswell, and for that i beg forgivness!
I am a bit frustrated, and NEED advice ASAP!)
I am a newbie at both Rotary engines, and Megasquirt, but have READ tech articles and forums for
many ,many hours,
Engine specs are 13B REW from a fd3s, single turbo, water/methanol injection, premix, running LEADING ONLY, MSD LS1-coils, stock injectors (550/850)
Have installed the 13B REW engine in a 1969 Austin Mini, and converted to RWD, and all the mechanics works fine. Now the time has come to start the “Widow Maker”, and we have encountered problems!!
It is running stock VR-sensors (dual front mounted sensors and a 12+1 wheel at the crank), GM IAT- and CLT sensors.
Running MSII V 3.57 with the Zeal board built and connected as instructed here: http://www.diyautotune.com/tech_arti...zda_fc_rx7.htm
Ne signals to the main board VRcircut, and G signals to Zeal-board
I am using the MS2/ Extra 2.1.0 and Megatune 2.25p3.
The pots are turned fully counterclockwise.
Megatune reads the IAT, CLT and TPS sensors just fine, but we get no RPM signal when cranking, and NO spark (obvious!)
I have read all the things concerning noise from the G sensor, but I thought the Zeal board contains noise-reducing 0.01 uF capacitors for the vr-input and makes this problem “go away”?
Unfortunally, I don’t have a Stim, so the testing is done IN the car. (My MS-guy, who has one, is spending 3 weeks in Thailand!!)
Have run shielded cables (separate Cables/shields for Ne and G, but the shields are grounded at the same place…pin 19 in the DB37. Pin 19 is also grounded at the at the engine block). The VRsensors have been tested, and are well within specs (0,95-1,25 kOhm).
We have tried to test the VR-inputs, but do not have an o-scope at this point (Damned Thailand!)
With a digital multi-meter we can see the signals from Ne coming to the mainboard, and the G signals to the Zeal-board, but not how clean/good they are.
The wires for the trailing coil is NOT CONNECTED TO ANYTHING other than the DB15, just left well isolated.
The grounds for the ECU, IAT and CLT are all grounded at the same place. Since I have done a complete new electrical harness, and don’t have an original fuse-panel, so I grounded them at the engine block. No fat wire, all wires go from ECU to grounding point.
We programmed the ECU using this: http://www.aaroncake.net/rx-7/megasquirt/ProgramMS2.asp.
Some of the screens are different from what we encountered in the setup, so it might be here the problems are. ( As stated, I am a newbie!! )
I am using the LS1-coils from MSD, and I guess they are a bit different than the coils mentioned in Aaron Cake’s writeup.
Ref : www.megamanual.com/seq/coils.htm
•Spark mode: Toothed Wheel
•Trigger angle: 0
•Ignition input capture; Rising Edge
•Spark Output: Going Low (Normal)
•Number of coils: Wasted Spark
•Spark A Output Pin: D14
•Dwell type: Standard Dwell
•Maximum dwell duration: 6,1 miliseconds
•Maximum spark duration: 2,0 miliseconds
•Acceleration Compensation: 0,6 miliseconds
•Trigger wheel teeth: 24
•Tooth #1 angle: 5
•Wheel speedL Cam wheel
•Second trigger active on: Rising Edge
•And every rotation of: Crank
•Enable rotary mode: Rotary on
•Output mode: FC mode
•RX8 mode: Disabled
As mentioned we are trying Leading spark only at first.
We have tried to run the spark-plugs in the test mode, and they spark as hell!
If you guys could point me in the right direction as to where I could start troubleshooting, and maybe take a look at the MSQ (when I get a chance to put it here), so I could start this insane thing soon, I would be a very happy trooper...
(I have this post at Moderator aswell, and for that i beg forgivness!
I am a bit frustrated, and NEED advice ASAP!)
I am a newbie at both Rotary engines, and Megasquirt, but have READ tech articles and forums for
many ,many hours,
Engine specs are 13B REW from a fd3s, single turbo, water/methanol injection, premix, running LEADING ONLY, MSD LS1-coils, stock injectors (550/850)
Have installed the 13B REW engine in a 1969 Austin Mini, and converted to RWD, and all the mechanics works fine. Now the time has come to start the “Widow Maker”, and we have encountered problems!!
It is running stock VR-sensors (dual front mounted sensors and a 12+1 wheel at the crank), GM IAT- and CLT sensors.
Running MSII V 3.57 with the Zeal board built and connected as instructed here: http://www.diyautotune.com/tech_arti...zda_fc_rx7.htm
Ne signals to the main board VRcircut, and G signals to Zeal-board
I am using the MS2/ Extra 2.1.0 and Megatune 2.25p3.
The pots are turned fully counterclockwise.
Megatune reads the IAT, CLT and TPS sensors just fine, but we get no RPM signal when cranking, and NO spark (obvious!)
I have read all the things concerning noise from the G sensor, but I thought the Zeal board contains noise-reducing 0.01 uF capacitors for the vr-input and makes this problem “go away”?
Unfortunally, I don’t have a Stim, so the testing is done IN the car. (My MS-guy, who has one, is spending 3 weeks in Thailand!!)
Have run shielded cables (separate Cables/shields for Ne and G, but the shields are grounded at the same place…pin 19 in the DB37. Pin 19 is also grounded at the at the engine block). The VRsensors have been tested, and are well within specs (0,95-1,25 kOhm).
We have tried to test the VR-inputs, but do not have an o-scope at this point (Damned Thailand!)
With a digital multi-meter we can see the signals from Ne coming to the mainboard, and the G signals to the Zeal-board, but not how clean/good they are.
The wires for the trailing coil is NOT CONNECTED TO ANYTHING other than the DB15, just left well isolated.
The grounds for the ECU, IAT and CLT are all grounded at the same place. Since I have done a complete new electrical harness, and don’t have an original fuse-panel, so I grounded them at the engine block. No fat wire, all wires go from ECU to grounding point.
We programmed the ECU using this: http://www.aaroncake.net/rx-7/megasquirt/ProgramMS2.asp.
Some of the screens are different from what we encountered in the setup, so it might be here the problems are. ( As stated, I am a newbie!! )
I am using the LS1-coils from MSD, and I guess they are a bit different than the coils mentioned in Aaron Cake’s writeup.
Ref : www.megamanual.com/seq/coils.htm
•Spark mode: Toothed Wheel
•Trigger angle: 0
•Ignition input capture; Rising Edge
•Spark Output: Going Low (Normal)
•Number of coils: Wasted Spark
•Spark A Output Pin: D14
•Dwell type: Standard Dwell
•Maximum dwell duration: 6,1 miliseconds
•Maximum spark duration: 2,0 miliseconds
•Acceleration Compensation: 0,6 miliseconds
•Trigger wheel teeth: 24
•Tooth #1 angle: 5
•Wheel speedL Cam wheel
•Second trigger active on: Rising Edge
•And every rotation of: Crank
•Enable rotary mode: Rotary on
•Output mode: FC mode
•RX8 mode: Disabled
As mentioned we are trying Leading spark only at first.
We have tried to run the spark-plugs in the test mode, and they spark as hell!
If you guys could point me in the right direction as to where I could start troubleshooting, and maybe take a look at the MSQ (when I get a chance to put it here), so I could start this insane thing soon, I would be a very happy trooper...
Last edited by RX-Mini; 03-30-10 at 07:38 AM. Reason: put in wrong url.
03-30-10, 08:50 AM
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Troubleshooting is going to be difficult without a scope.
The first thing I would suggest is to scope the outputs of both VR circuits while cranking the car, to make sure a square wave is being produced. If you aren't getting an RPM signal, you are missing one or both of the VR signals.
The first thing I would suggest is to scope the outputs of both VR circuits while cranking the car, to make sure a square wave is being produced. If you aren't getting an RPM signal, you are missing one or both of the VR signals.
03-31-10, 01:29 AM
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Since I don't fully trust my soldering-skills , I got a friend who does trust his, to assemble the board and connect it to the mainboard after these instructions:
http://www.diyautotune.com/tech_arti...zda_fc_rx7.htm
When you say pin 14's jumper, do you mean this step of the instructions?
"We have found that the second signal conditioner works better with the ground jumper installed in the two holes next to U2. Install a length of snipped resistor lead to bridge these holes, and solder into place"
If so, I will check it out!
Uptil now we have used Megatune, but got a tip to try to record a composite log from cranking, using TuningStudio.
Thanks for the replies by the way!!
Kjetil
http://www.diyautotune.com/tech_arti...zda_fc_rx7.htm
When you say pin 14's jumper, do you mean this step of the instructions?
"We have found that the second signal conditioner works better with the ground jumper installed in the two holes next to U2. Install a length of snipped resistor lead to bridge these holes, and solder into place"
If so, I will check it out!
Uptil now we have used Megatune, but got a tip to try to record a composite log from cranking, using TuningStudio.
Thanks for the replies by the way!!
Kjetil
04-01-10, 01:43 PM
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Well here's a little update on this project.
Soldered the jumper, which my soldering friend had forgotten.
Some support from the nice guys at DIYAutotune has proven that I am getting the G-signal, but nothing from Ne-sensor.
We then found an error in their writeup for the Zeal Daughtercard .
The install article tells you to place JP1 in 2-3 position, and J1 in 3-4 position.
Changed JP1 to 1-2 pos. and hoped that that would cure the missing RPM.
But alas...nothing. Checked the wiring for Ne-sensor again, and it proves to be fine. Ne- to pin 2 and Ne+ to pin 24 on the DB37.
Is it possible that the potentiometers are so out of place that they are causing the lack of the notorious RPM?
Since I've got the V3.57, they are 5-turn surface-mount variants.
Does anybody know if the are the same as the V3 ones?
"The pots don't actually stop when fully counter clockwise, instead they have a clutch that lets them spin at the end of their travel. You might be able to hear and feel a slight click when this happens"
Since this is my first attempt at this I might off course have made some stupid errors in the programming, but at this point I have looked it over so many times that I have gone blind...can't see my own mistakes.
Is it possible to get any of you Rotary-Gurus to have a look?
Soldered the jumper, which my soldering friend had forgotten.
Some support from the nice guys at DIYAutotune has proven that I am getting the G-signal, but nothing from Ne-sensor.
We then found an error in their writeup for the Zeal Daughtercard .
The install article tells you to place JP1 in 2-3 position, and J1 in 3-4 position.
Changed JP1 to 1-2 pos. and hoped that that would cure the missing RPM.
But alas...nothing. Checked the wiring for Ne-sensor again, and it proves to be fine. Ne- to pin 2 and Ne+ to pin 24 on the DB37.
Is it possible that the potentiometers are so out of place that they are causing the lack of the notorious RPM?
Since I've got the V3.57, they are 5-turn surface-mount variants.
Does anybody know if the are the same as the V3 ones?
"The pots don't actually stop when fully counter clockwise, instead they have a clutch that lets them spin at the end of their travel. You might be able to hear and feel a slight click when this happens"
Since this is my first attempt at this I might off course have made some stupid errors in the programming, but at this point I have looked it over so many times that I have gone blind...can't see my own mistakes.
Is it possible to get any of you Rotary-Gurus to have a look?
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04-02-10, 04:09 PM
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It was actually verified by Matt at DIYAutotune, and not by me.
As far as I can see, I can't post Excel-files here, so I made it into PDF.
If you cant read it in that format, I'll happily mail it to you.
Also... I wired the vr-sensors according to this scematic drawing.
http://www.k2rd.com/haltech/drawings/T03.pdf
Right or wrong?
As far as I can see, I can't post Excel-files here, so I made it into PDF.
If you cant read it in that format, I'll happily mail it to you.
Also... I wired the vr-sensors according to this scematic drawing.
http://www.k2rd.com/haltech/drawings/T03.pdf
Right or wrong?
Last edited by RX-Mini; 04-02-10 at 04:19 PM. Reason: Forgot to post att.
04-06-10, 11:03 AM
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An update is in order!
IT IS ALIVE!!!
After a couple of hours of troubleshooting we have found that the shielded cable carrying the Ne signal is broken somewhere, causing the Ne+ signal to go to ground. No wonder the ECU got confused!!! Cut the shield, and it fired up right
away! The RPM is a bit jumpy because of the lacking shield, but thats easy to fix now that we have found the cause of the error! HAPPY!!!!
That for the respond guys!!
IT IS ALIVE!!!
After a couple of hours of troubleshooting we have found that the shielded cable carrying the Ne signal is broken somewhere, causing the Ne+ signal to go to ground. No wonder the ECU got confused!!! Cut the shield, and it fired up right
away! The RPM is a bit jumpy because of the lacking shield, but thats easy to fix now that we have found the cause of the error! HAPPY!!!!
That for the respond guys!!
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