AGreen

iTrader: (11)

A little backstory first. I built the MS2 ecu right before going out to sea, got a very basic tune down, and just now came back and tried driving the 7 again. The car starts, idles, and boosts fine, but normal driving and low throttle operation (parking lot/stop & go maneuvers) are suffering. I think it could be fixed with setting the TPS properly. I do have the TPS installed, but I have it set up right now to where the MAP sensor does all the work. I think. I forgot what the name is, it's been a while since I looked at it, and it's on the other computer (you know, the really old one that we have to use with a trusty old serial port ) Anyways, I'll try and describe it. There's a slide bar that can show a percentage of TPS vs. MAP correction. I have it all the way to 100% map. That's probably not right.


I'll try to post an MSQ later once I figure out what that is, and how I'm going to transfer it from that old laptop that runs windows 98 and only has a floppy drive.

Any preliminary help or suggestions for right now while I'm trying to get acquainted with the program again would be great.

-Terrence

AGreen

iTrader: (11)

Ok, here's the .msq file. It's under the acceleration wizard that I have the bar all the way to the left. I really can't remember why it was that way, but I recall something about throttle response. Anyways, here's the file. If someone could give it a good thorough look at to see where I'm messing it up. I've read all the notes about tuning and using megasquirt and such, but I'm sure that all the .txt files in the world won't make up for experience.

AGreen

iTrader: (11)

forgot to upload the file...

AGreen

iTrader: (11)

A little update. Changed out the spark plugs and lost alot of the choppyness. It's definitely still there, just not as bad.

I also noticed that it was in warmup mode when fully warmed up to 190F. Weird...

Help?

Eagle7

Set the last entry on the warmup enrichment curve to 100%.

AGreen

iTrader: (11)

New update.

I was having severe issues with having the idle being random. It seemed to be searching for a spot to stop, but never could find one. Seemed to be really lean, but richening it up didn't fix it. I put the bar back to 100% MAP, and it fixed the idle. I leaned it back out after smoothing things out, then I realized that I never actually PHYSICALLY set the timing. So I followed aaron cake's writeup for setting the timing and I was pretty close, so no problem suspected there. The only thing is that on neither the L1 or T1 wires, the timing light would not pick up! It would on L2 and T2, but not 1... weird

Anyways, it idles ok now. I do have a question about idle control though. It seems as if in Aaron Cake's writeup that MS1 users can use what's called closed loop idle control, which will allow the ecu to make corrections to hold the rpm at whatever is programmed in. If there is such a thing for MS2, I don't know where it is. All his writeup talks about is PWM warmup. I have it set now to where it'll hold an idle after fully warmed up, but if any load is put on it (e-fan, God forbid the AC!) it bogs down. It's being held at 30% open to maintain a normal 1000 rpm idle, but I wish I could figure out how to make it actually control the idle.

Moving onward to my final issue; cruising. Even light acceleration will cause it to go all crazy. AFRs go all across the place. My NGK wideband only goes from 9.00 to 16.00, and during these conditions it definitely uses the full range.

I changed the final bin on the warmup enrichment to 100%, and that fixed it from never coming out of warmup. That just makes sense, don't know why I didn't think of it before

I may have to post a new .msq since I made some changes. I guarantee whatever was causing it to go crazy can be found in the old one I already posted though.

Also, how do you know when the thing goes into closed loop? I keep seeing EGO correction locked in at 100% at all times, never seen it change ever.

Man I need some help...

muythaibxr

MS2/extra has closed loop idle speed control, but it's not the same as MS1. MS2/extra 2.1.0 is the first revision that it worked pretty well in.

Your accel enrichments need tuning.


If it's not moving from 100%, it's not going into closed loop. It should change if it is going into closed loop.

Ken

AGreen

iTrader: (11)

Ok, cool. So where do I find the closed loop idle control?

I'll post the numbers I have for accel enrichment. I tried tinkering with it some, and it really didn't make any change (or so it seemed).

I figured it was supposed to change from 100% when going into closed loop. I have the settings spread out so it should meet all the conditions, but I don't think it's working right.... back to tuning I go.

Eagle7

Don't post your numbers. Post your msq.

muythaibxr

In the 2.1.0 or later firmware in the closed-loop idle settings and target curve.

Ken

AGreen

iTrader: (11)

well...

This just opened a new window for me. I had it set to PWM warmup as in Aaron's writeup. Didn't even think to change it to "closed loop". I still have so damn much to learn. Doing that unlocked a bunch of options and settings that I don't even know what they are.

What's PID stand for anyways?

AGreen

iTrader: (11)

Posting another .MSQ file here. I got it working somewhat, but I've been fiddling with it for a few hours now, still don't get it. It idles like poo right now. Jumps all around like it's going lean, but bogs down like it's going really rich. AFR's still everywhere. Cruising still sucks too. About the only thing it does now is pull really, really, really hard. That's the easy part, anybody can make that happen.

Going nuts here


By the way, where can I find something to read about how to use MegaTune? I've read this all the way already :

http://www.megamanual.com/ms2/tune.htm

and this one:

http://www.megamanual.com/v22manual/rotary.htm

but there are faaaar more features that those don't explain.

Eagle7

Don't turn on closed loop idle until you've got a stable idle with open loop or you'll never get it right.

I recommend you switch to Tuner Studio. Lots more features than MegaTune and easier to use (in my opinion). And MegaTune is a dead end, in that it does not support the recent firmware releases and will probably never be updated.

You are using MS-Extra firmware, right? You probably want to concentrate on www.msextra.com for your info. Megamanual is not for the extra firmware.

AGreen

iTrader: (11)

I had the idle on lock (for the best I could) when it was set to PWM warmup.

I'll look into TunerStudio. It kind of sucks for me, I use a really old *** laptop since it's the only thing with a serial port I could find. I do have a USB->serial adaptor, but I can't figure that out either. The computer runs windows 98 (yes, old). If I read correctly, it needs a current version of Java runtime. Not sure if that old laptop will be compatible with it, but I'll find out soon. I just hope it has enough hard drive space for it. I think it literally has 2G of total space.

If you guys haven't figured out by now, I'm about 90% computer-illiterate.

Thanks for the MSExtra link. I didn't know there was a completely different manual for it.

AGreen

iTrader: (11)

OK, so I tinkered around with it some more, and got really frustrated a few times. Seems like whatever I'd do would make it ok for a few seconds up to a minute, then it'd start lumping again. I then started fiddling with the proportional, integral, and derivative gains (which i'm assuming is what PID means?) and got things smoothed out. I also went into the lags and changed alot there too.

What exactly does each one do?!!??! I just changed random **** around until it got a halfway presentable idle.

Now it's still not rock solid like I'd prefer, but it works... somewhat. Steady cruising and light acceleration still suck really bad. I'm still not too sure what's causing it to swing the WB reading full lean to full rich during a supposed "steady state", but it just is.

With that being said, I'd like to start figuring out how to do some datalogging. I'm still using megatune for right now. I've searched through the whole thing and haven't found anything about datalogs. Is there some other software that I need to use in order to do that?

Hopefully with a good datalog I can post some more valuable information.

New .msq file soon to follow. I need to go boot up the ol' tuning laptop (takes a solid 10 minutes) and burn the file to a floppy disc (yes, it's the only way to get data OFF that thing) and upload it.

AGreen

iTrader: (11)

I talked to some guys at work today and this is what I was told about gains (in general)

Apparently, gain is just feedback to an OPAMP. Proportional gain would probably have a resistor in the feedback circuit, thus making it... well, proportional. Integral would be a capacitor on the feedback, which would (and still, they're just guessing) change the feedback waveform from a square wave to a "ramp down" signal. And the derivative would have an inductor, which would change it to a "ramp up" signal. I may have misinterpreted what they said though

That being said... I need to try and figure out how much to set each gain to still.

Eagle7

I'm pretty sure there is a manual section for idle control on msextra.com.

AGreen

iTrader: (11)

Yeah, but it's not the information I'm looking for.

See for yourself!

http://msextra.com/doc/ms2extra/MS2-...rsion.htm#idle

http://msextra.com/doc/ms2extra/MS2-...nual.html#idle

Eagle7

I see what you mean. Try this: http://msextra.com/doc/ms3/Idle_Control.html

Looks like the docs haven't been backported as well as the code has. Most of it will apply - some details will vary.

AGreen

iTrader: (11)

jack


freakin'


pot!

AGreen

iTrader: (11)

Well, the idle still sucks, and I can't even get the car to drive around in town now. Trying to find a stretch of road that's long enough for me to do slow driving on just doesn't happen. So when I come to a stop, the idle goes all wacky and the car will die.

Any good suggestions on what I should put the PID settings to? I feel like I've tried every combination possible and I just can't find the sweet spot.

Eagle7

How's your idle if your idle valve is controlled by "warmup only" (or whatever it's called)? You can not tune closed loop idle PID until your VE and ignition timing is well tuned. When you've got a steady idle that doesn't go nuts with minor disruptions try closed loop, and follow the instructions in the manual. If you've still got problems post your msq.