I rebuilt this FC engine for a restoration of my Son' FB GSL SE. The engine is running in the body now but since I do not have a lot of experience on rotary engines if anyone has an idea of what is happening here please post a comment.

The engine is running on MS2 3.2.4 spark and fuel. The crank pulley did not have any marks on it and I assembled it using the Crank shaft Key as TDC. It appears that with this engine the CAS can be place in 4 different locations 90 degrees apart and the engine runs equally well. I know because I have tried it. Idle seems good at 800 RPM the engine bogs down when the throttle plates are opened and once RPM hits 3500 it smooths out, but goes lean. I am thinking that I may have a bad primary injector not supplying enough fuel and causing the shake. I have a You Tube video of the engine running.


Also I have the Zeal Daugher card connected to the Tach wire but I do not have indication of RPM on the Tach. If anyone knows how this out put from the Zeal Daughter card works could you please post an answer?

I will post a Picture show of the engine build as well. But don't think that there is a problem with assembly.




Ark1

 

Its Korndog from youtube...

could we get a showing of how you setup your trigger wheel and the spark settings in the MS?

would help alot

 

I took a composite log of the cam and crank have attached. I tried to start the car but it just didn't happen. No spark or rare spark on the leading plugs. When cranking it, it is apparent with the use of a timing light that there is a miss, about every 5th or 6th pulse. I have 2 leading coils each give the same performance. The spark is yellow not blue like the trailing coil. I haven't put my scope on the primary of the coil to see what it is doing. When I installed this set up on the car I followed DIY Auto Tune instructions which stated to take the black wire at the leading coil and connect it to ground. That wire is for a tack signal and grounding it puts a solid ground on the coil which not only burns up the coil but the ignitor as well. Burnt out 3 leading coils before I figured out what was happening. I think the board is bad on the output to the Leading coil.

Does anyone have this working? Spark I mean. I have been at this for quite awhile and am considering to put the FB coils back in the car. I think I can use MS2 as fuel only. Will it still work the idle control valve?

Open to suggestions. I have a spare processor ( Daughter Card) and a spare board Minus an injector driver. Because of all of the problems and under the direction of DIY Auto Tune I bypassed the LED pull ups and used an inverted signal in the ignition set up.

Anyway give me your thoughts, all of this is really discouraging.


It appears that the composite log will not upload, ( wrong extension) it looks good, no sync issues and even pulses between the crank and cam.

Ark1

 

Thats cool and all, and not trying to be an mean, but can we get a screenshot of how you have settings setup on the MEgasquirt? its very easy that you may have just set some things wrong

 

I will take some screen shots of the settings when I get home from work and post.

Thanks for the suggestion and help.

Ark1.

 

Here are the screen shots. Matt Crammer from DIY Auto Tune is also looking at my information that I have been emailing him ( TonyK. FiatX190204 on You Tube)

I purchased a new timing light today, no difference. When cranking just the odd hit, fuel has been shut off to see if spark is being generated. CAS is good, just the output is where the problem lies.

Here are my settings and Composite log of the CAS.

Ark1.

 

Had to write something the post would not allow just a picture.

Ark1

 

I think there a bug on 3.2.0 up to 3.2.4 that affect the leading spark output.its fix on 3.2.5

 

I was waiting as I think if I load the upgrade see this link



Megasquirt MSEXTRA / MS3EFI • MS2/Extra 3.2.5 (beta) released (View topic)

It is for 3.4.5 and states for Micro Squirt, Matt Crammer mentioned in his email that it may also apply to MS2 Extra.

If I understand correctly I will have to re-enter all of my settings with the upgrade.

Here is a short video 12 seconds of cranking with a spare spark plug connected to the Leading coil wire and the spark it is now generating. There is a pause or miss that is always happening. Also sometime I cannot get any leading spark at all. And with a rotary engine cranking and no spark leaves a flooded engine, fouled plugs and a lot dicking around to clear the engine only to have an intermittent spark and fuel once again dumping into the engine.


I really want to beat this thing and get the engine running like it should, a new engine. Say a prayer.

Thanks for your comments.

Ark1.

 

In your ignition options why do you have it set at "Rising Edge" and "Going High"???

From everything that Ive read the standard setup on a rotary using stock stuff is "Falling Edge" and "Going Low"

 

With all the trouble I have been having with MS2 3.57 board the inverter transistors Q5, Q6 & Q8 are not being used Jumpers from the processor pins 7,8&9 go directly to pads 14, 15 & 16 so the normal signal is inverted to the instructions. This was done at the direction of Matt Crammer of DIY Auto Tune. Regardless, there should be a constant even spark being generated without a miss or pause.

I am waiting for a reply from DIY Auto Tune and am thinking that I will have to bite the bullet and do the software upgrade. If you read through the upgrade it mentions a conflict that corrects erratic spark on the Leading Coils.

Ark1

 

As directed I checked the out put signal to the coils on the FC engine. Using a Techtronix 465 dual trace scope the leading coil showed a pulse of 5 volts. The trailing coils showed 4.9 volts alternating high and low when cranking and a pulse again of 4.9 volts.

I loaded 3.2.5a firmware. I always have a problem finding the ini file. Loaded the tune and inverted the coil out puts. Check for spark on the leading coil with a grounded spark plug and found healthy spark but it appears to still spark 3 times, pause and spark again 3 times. I connected the fuel pump connector, primed the fuel rail and sent a pulse of fuel into the engine then cranked it. The engine started. I shut it down and tried it again and it again started. I did this for a total of 3 times. I am not sure where the CAS is in relation to the rotors, but it still sounds like it has a miss. I ran out of time tonight will try tomorrow.

There is a bug in the lower versions of firmware, just not sure I have gotten past it yet. Also still no Tach signal.

Ark1.

 

can i get a more High res picture of the logger of the CAS please, (not picture quality but zoomed in more)

 

Here is a zoomed in view. Possibly you are on to something.

Would you confirm that the spark should always be constant without a pause for this engine?

Also the CAS is fixed, if the cam wheel spacing is changing then it must be in the electronics, would you agree? Bad CAS Pickup?

I have a spare CAS, but will have to change the weather pack plug on it as the stock one was damaged on the installed CAS.


Thanks.


Ark1

 

yeah, i was just looking at that, zoom in a little more, like to the point of where there are only 4 or 5 cas rotations, i want to see that spacing difference, but that should be a nice steady signal wave, unless you cut out a tooth on the 24 tooth wheel

 

and I think you uploaded the same picture as before

 

Take a look now. The spacing does not look even. There is a section there with only 2 pulses between the crank sensor and others have 3 pulses between them.

To my limited thinking and knowledge of the Rotary engine these should be even cam pulses in relation to the crank pulses.

Ark1

 

is there no way to zoom in on those uneven spots? like lower the amout of time on the X axis?

 

It does not appear that I can import the file to look at it at a latter time, at least with the basic Tunner Studio.

I upgraded to 3.2.5a I cannot see a difference it anything the engine runs worst. I changed the CAS to my spare, no difference. On 3.2.5a Composite Logger sometimes works sometimes does not.

I tried cranking the engine with Composite Logger fuel pump disconnected and the engine hit twice, the log changed a lot on the cam signal. See picture. I am wondering if there is a noise issue with the Zeal 2nd VR Circuit.

I will not be able to get back to this until Late Sunday Afternoon I am going to get the engine running and do a data log to see if there is a noise issue.

Also since I upgraded to 3.2.5a I am getting an error message, do you know what this means and how to correct it?

Ark1.

 

To clarify, using the crankshaft key as TDC means placing the key facing the exhaust side of the engine, correct? Just making sure that you aren't placing the actual key straight up or something.

With the issues on your main board pertaining to the leading coil driver, if I was in the same situation I'd replace the board. It's a time vs. money thing. A new board is inexpensive compared to the frustration of dealing with a known bad board. And the symptoms you describe are an engine running on trailings only.

 

Aaron thanks for the reply. Yes when I marked the pulley I put the key straight up. ( Sorry I am a piston guy)

I will suppose that I am 90 degrees out of sync which explains why I must turn the CAS so far advanced. Currently the timing light is of no use. And in the current configuration the engine will run just about anywhere the CAS is placed.

As for the coil driver please understand that I followed the directions of the Post from DIY Auto Tune that gave the instruction to GROUND the black wire on the leading coil. I destroyed 3 leading coils in the process and I found out this was totally wrong and Matt Crammer has since changed the instructions to no connection. While going through this trauma I was instructed to by pass the inverting transistors as Q6 had shorted. This now gave me spark out put again but with an inverted signal.

I have 2 boards, one that came with a damaged R20 this burnt out my injectors.

DIY Auto Tune sent me a replacement board. I will agree with you about the time I have spent on this, the amount of hours I have spent is just plain stupid. But... I am restoring this car for my son, and I had a vision. And that I have not yet lost sight of.

I sent an email and posted the problems on the UK MegaSquirt board and James Cortina may have found the final problem that I face. Here is his response to my post that gave the same information that I have posted here.


Quote"

Re: Rotary Problems

Unread postby jsmcortina » Sat Jun 01, 2013 7:45 am



Ark1 wrote:Have as directed by passed inverting transistors Q6, Q7 & Q8 and go directly from processor pins 7, 8 & 9 with inverted coil output.

I've never heard of it being done this way as it risks processor damage if any stray voltage gets onto those signal wires.

I looked at your MSQ and there appears to be an error.
On the trigger wheel settings, you have "and every rotataion of..." set to "cam". This should be set to "crank" for the FC CAS which has 24 main teeth and 2 upper teeth.

James


This could explain a lot. I have just read the post, replied to this one and will implement the change shortly.

Thanks everyone for their help.

I hope this is the final problem to overcome.

Ark1 ( TonyK)

 

Trigger Wheel settings.

See the two attachments.

One is the DIY Auto Tune write up the other is the screen shot.

Setting the Trigger to Crank instead of Cam is not mentioned.

The write up should be changed to reflect the importance of this setting.

Ark1 ( TonyK)

 

My writeup i s based on a very old version of the MS2 firmware and need to be updated. That's one of the issues with a rapidly developing product. It was just after I made the writeup that the MS2 firmware was changed significantly.

However, start by remarking TDC. Did you not have marks on the pulley from the factory?

 

Aaron I just followed the instructions from DIY Auto Tune and that setting was never mentioned and as you stated the product changed from your write up. ( A very good write up I will also say, a lot of work to do)

As for the Crank pulleys, the engine I had the pulleys were rusted. I purchased 2 other sets from ebay, none had marks. So I went ahead and sand blasted the pulleys and powder coated them. I took for chance that the keyway was like a piston engine, Key facing up is TDC, you have confirmed this is wrong. I marked the hub under the Crank bolt with a drilled indent, so I can find the keyway. I also marked the pulley at that location as well. So with a little playing around I can find TDC and remark the pulley.

As for the Tach. I could not get the Zeal daughter card output to drive the tach so I ran a wire from the leading coil BLACK wire to the old coil wire location and I have a Tach that corresponds to the MegaSquirt dash board.

The engine starts very easily please see the video below.

Thanks for your comments, inspiration and direction.

Ark1 ( TonyK)

 

GREAT!!!!!!! love when things work out, Gratz man, I was figuring it was just a setting!

sounds great!