Well i've been able to get it to pick up the cas and show RPM now and it seems that the injectors are firing without issue, however theres is no spark. the coils have good power and grounds and are wired as per the diagram.

any help would be appreciated.

it's a 1st gen with s5 t2 motor running an unmodified cas and fc coils, on a v3 board using msnsextra

 

what is the led behavior and perhaps you can get a msq?

 

The 2 leds on the right stay lit when cranking and the 1 on the left flashes.

 

That's proper behavior, so it's likely a wiring problem or a problem with the mods internal to the MS... (pullup resistors on the LED's, wiring from led negative leg to spare pins, or wiring between the MS and the coils).

Also, it would be good to verify that the coils actually work.

Ken

 

Thanks, I'll see what I can find. Not likely the coils themselves, but I'll check them on my car. The harness that came with the ms has extremely small guage wiring, is it possible that it could be an issue? Is it possible to check for a signal at the coils aside from using a scope?

 

Brent,

What gauge wire was used in the harness? Grounds and injector outputs carry the highest currents. The ignition signals for the FC ignition are 5v control signals only, with the coil's ignitors taking care of the high current load.

To check at the coil, make up a little test light out of an LED and 1k resistor. The LED should flash when the CAS is spun. Note that it will be of opposite phase to the LED on the front of the MS box.

 

The wiring for the coils(aside from the signal wire) is all stock sizes, and as you said the signal is only 5volt so it's unlikely a problem. Just a thought. I'll check the wiring one more time and test the coils.

Thanks for the tip on the led, I have a couple that I was going to try. I just wasn't sure about the resistor. I have a guy working for me that takes care of most of the electrical, he's the expert.LOL. So I can just hook the led to the 5volt signal at the coil right? Just want to be sure.

Another thought I had was to use a small battery to trigger the coils and check for spark, but if I hook up the led and it flashes there's really no point. Where in ontario are you renns? If I don't soon get this figured out maybe we could arrange something and have you come by?

Brent

 

Try something like this:



Resistor value is not that critical. Lower values increase led brightness but draw more current from the device under test.

 

Thanks again, where are you located? If I can't get this figured out maybe I could make it worth your while to come by.

 

Installed the led as mentioned above and it flashes as it should. Tried a coil that's known to be operating well(it's been running my car). When you turn the key to the run position the coil fires once, then while cranking it's not firing. Is it possible that the ms for some reason isn't sending a strong enough signal? With the key in the run position it showes 5volts signal, so I doubt it. Everything is grounded well and has good power.

 

Is the coilpack bolted in to the car properly, or sitting loose? It needs to be grounded well.

 

The coil is grounded and mounted. We used 3AA batteries in series to trigger the coil and it works fine, even while cranking. The signal doesn't have enough juice to trigger the coils. It triggers the coil once when you turn the key to the run position and lights the led up and flashes it during cranking, however will not fire the coil. We checked the power drop during cranking and it's identical to a running fc. The signal wire from the ms is smaller than 18guage however it shouldn't matter seeing that it's only 5v(right?).

 

How much smaller than 18 ga? Maybe try running an 18 ga. wire direct from LED to coil pack.

Also, what are the resistance of those add-on pull-up resistors on the leds?

 

Yeah, in my testing, the pullup resistors were ok down to about 2k, any lower, and I got some nasty noise on my TPS, CLT, and MAT signals.

I usually suggest 4.7k as that's worked fine for me on all my installs, but I suppose it's possible that could be too high for some people.

Ken

 

We didn't build the ms the customer supplied it. Seems to be put together properly though. Do many people have this problem with the coil signals? Also do the pots have any effect on the trigger signal for the coils? (As far as I understand it they don't) Where can I get the resistors? I don't build electronics. Thanks again guys.

Brent

 

I've never had a problem with triggering the coils.

Can you also post an msq? Maybe we could find something there that would help.

Ken

 

I'll post the msq later today. Thanks.

 

msq as promised, save to file then eliminate .txt from the file extension and all is well.

 

Alright, I'll probably have to take a look tonight or tomorrow.

 

Much appreciated.

Brent

 

Again, it doesn't sound like a problem with settings, but I just want to rule it out.

 

Do the trailing coils fire on startup? Maybe together they're just drawing too much from the ecu?

 

The trailing coils (when running on MS anyway) dont work until 800 rpm, and then turn off again at 700. Something about them not running reliably below that because of a different speed algorithm or something... i dont know the specifics. So i dont think that would be it. Could you check the size of the resistors on the LEDs for us? Also, the wire size may be the problem, since smaller diameter wire has a higher resistance per length than larger. I'd think that it would take more than that tho, unless these are really tiny wires.

 

Yeah, I remembered reading that the trailing don't fire at idle. Just hoping for a simple solution. The wires are extremely small, like I said above. It fires the coils once when you turn the key to run. I'll double check the resistor size, pretty sure it's 4.7k as specified though.

Brent

 

The harness that came with the ms is 22guage, I checked last night. Any suggestions? I really need to get this car back to the customer.

Brent