RX-S7V7N

here is one picture of the 2 signals at the scope





and here is one video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T89-9rBtGdA

RX-S7V7N

Tnks, in that case Fidle is simple, after have in place is "just" tune the engine for that air and fuel, playing also with timing i think.
Tell me later about your progress on staged, i still need to manage that also.

On my setupe i can do it as 4 injectors of 540cc or 8 of 270cc, since this are new generation of Denso injectors i found this on the net.

""First, a set of all-new Denso injectors has been mounted in the venturis of the large 44mm machined aluminum throttle bodies.
An entirely new manufacturing process endows these fourth-generation injectors with a radial array of 12 holes that produce a wider, more diffused output.
As a result, this more finely atomized spray covers a wider area and mixes 20 percent more efficiently with the intake air, which results in more efficient combustion.
In addition, new, dramatically lighter needle bearings allow the injectors to respond to electric signals 30 percent faster than the previous generation--an amazingly short response
time of 1/1000th second. In addition, these new-generation injector bodies also weigh 25 percent less than the previous units."""

So the open time "latency" is shorter for these injectors they say, but is the value that MS advise, hope it goes fine with 1ms

toplessFC3Sman

iTrader: (1)

ok, that output is kinda messy, especially on the going low side. IIRC, my LM output went high at the zero-crossing of the VR signal. It looks like you dont have the RC circuit on pin 14 hooked up?

anyway, this is a good write-up on how to get it wired and set up properly:
http://stuff.pw.cx/Megasquirt%20MS2%...azda%20CAS.pdf

RX-S7V7N

Yes, i made it on base of that PDF, i have check it again and now is correct, i have connect the 5v (by mistake) on one of the BOOT pins that are very close, my mistake, still don´t know how it give any signal at output.

But here is a correct signal i think.

the litle engine that is rotating the CAS give good speed of 800rpm for a stable idle, i was able to see the 2 injectors working.

Now i have to test the trailing coils also

RX-S7V7N

I don´t know if anyone notice,, but in fact TAN is not black.

And since English is my second language i make this mistake with colors.

here is the correct connections i have done and it works





Now i must have something wrong, because the outputs on trailing coils doesn´t look correct.

Example, i get 3 or 5 sparks on one side and more 3 or 5 on the other side, if i´m not wrong it should be one side each time.

Someone to clear this for me, i´m still working on the table and is the best place to not damage my engine.

toplessFC3Sman

iTrader: (1)

Ok, thats definitely the correct output coming out of the LM1815 now. One down!

As for the trailing coils, I can't comment on the wiring since i've never had mine apart (I created a sub-harness from the plugs in the old ECU so I didnt re-wire the engine harness, just the emissions harness). However, it seems like there is an intermittent connection in your IGs-T select signal. You should be seeing one spark on each plug before it switches to the other trailing plug. I'd hook up the o-scope to the trailing timing and trailing select outputs (they're just logic-level, so nothing more than 5v) and see what they're doing. IIRC, you *should* see alternating pulses on each line, so a select pulse in between each timing pulse.

RX-S7V7N

Maybe i found one problem, i have check again the signal in and out on the VR circuit.

And if i have the coils working i get noise coming on the input and also get one small pulse in meadle of the 2 correct signals (maybe 1v), take out the power of the coils and it stops.

I know that it is on table and all wires are crossing each other, totaly mess, but with the scope i see that the signals going to the coils (without the coils connected) still are wrong, maybe i don´t have MS with correct settings.

Here is the MS file that i´m using now for testing.
If don´t open rename it to .RAR instead of .ZIP

RX-S7V7N

Shame on me again hahaha ROTARY mode was OFF on that MSQ file, now is OK.

One more down

toplessFC3Sman

iTrader: (1)

glad you found it! Noise is a big issue with the CAS wires; when you do wire it up in-car, make sure you use a shielded cable for them

pmrobert

... and make sure you only ground ONE end of the shield, preferably the end closest to the electronics (LM1815). Leave the other end floating and insulated from accidental contact with ground. Intercom cable, microphone cable, etc., are all good sources for well shielded cabling that doesn't cost an arm and a leg. If you're really **** about such things, http://aircraftspruce.com has aircraft grade, Tefzel insulated, tin plated copper wire cabling ( http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalo...edmotefzel.php ). I've used both; the intercom stuff is fine. Look for plenum rated if you go intercom, it's insulation is speced for much higher environmental temps than microphone or non-plenum cable.

RX-S7V7N

Still on the table, and the noise problems are there.

Before it was like this video, all very clean, on the second scope
you can see the signals for the trailing and select

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ae9JWo97jws


after some playing/testing it start to go like this, now imagine on the car.



I know that with shielde wire and some condensors it may go better (tanks for the advises and wires recomendations)

How about for example place the VR circuit inside the CAS or very close if don´t have room inside ?

it just need 5v power supply and the output will be 0~5v logical signal, since it is so close and shielded by the CAS maybe external noises from coils and other stuff
will not interfere so easy.

what you people think about it? anyone test it?


I didn´t verify with more detail, but looks the noise is afecting only the 2º signal that comes to the VR that we build, if it get noise we will get one more extra 5v signal like on the picture, it just need to go bellow 0v.

I need to figure out before i install it on the car, here on table i can do more than after install

pmrobert

What mode is the 1815 set for? I.e., what is pin 5 of the 1815 connected to? There are 3 modes the chip can operate in depending on whether pin 5 is floating, grounded or at Vcc. These modes change the arming threshhold - see page 2 of the datasheet. Basically, the arming threshhold is the voltage that must be attained before a zero crossing will trigger an output pulse. That noise on your scope is either really small amplitude or was so short the scope didn't see it's true size. Anyways, check out theinfo alluded to above and see if that might help you.

RX-S7V7N

Pin 5 is floating like on the pdf, i´m going to test it to 5v just don´t know if for low rpm that will work?
what is your advise.

that noise i have made it to see how it goes i know that on table, i can remove it,
but if on car that situation comes if i´m driving i can break one seal or something else.

pmrobert

My apologies, I meant to include the link to the datasheet: http://www.national.com/ds/LM/LM1815.pdf

I would try pin 5 to Vcc; if you look at the datasheet, p2, you'll see what this accomplishes, namely making the chip less responsive to low voltage noise. I'm pretty sure that the code, in your case, would have seen that extra signal as a cause for loss-of-synch - though I'm not sure. I'm also not certain that this possibly be trouble in certain boundary conditions, etc. I know Ken and James have done a lot of work on noise filters that would detect something like this and ignore it. Hopefully Ken can drop into this thread and clarify things.

-Mike

RX-S7V7N

I have try to edit my post, but didn´t work.

Yes i check the PDF for the LM1815, and it was also my ideia to try pin 5 to Vcc.
Just don´t know if at low RPM it can pickup the signal, i will try it tonight, still the idea to use the LM inside the CAS to avoid the noise may not be bad, i can use one 5v regulator inside the relay box to power the 1815, it will be just one more wire to connect inside CAS.

Trial and error, it´s all about it.

pmrobert

All good stuff and good ideas. You could probably use vRef off the relay board to power an 1815 inside the CAS. Were you planning on mounting it to the cover? There's not a lot of room in there but it may work. Let us know. I'm pretty sure I have my pin 5 at Vcc and don't really have trouble acquiring signal at 150 rpm. Let us know what you do and what the results are.

RX-S7V7N

The pin 5 to VCC works fine.

Now, how about the LM2907 ? could we use it?

Much smaller to put inside the CAS, only 8 pins

pmrobert

If you want to pursue the in-CAS mount just to do it, great. I honestly don't think it's necessary; other folks have made this work without getting that.... "extreme" may be too harsh of a word, my apologies, no malice intended. Decent shielded wire properly grounded and routed, taking care to not parallel high voltage or high curent wires has worked superbly for my personal install. My latest install under progress does have the 1815s in an MS case along with a synchroMAP board mounted where the stock battery used to be. I agree that shorter CAS wiring is theoretically better, I;m not sure that inside the CAS is an exceptionally nice environment for logic level ICs. IT does get pretty warm in there, the LM1815 does have a pretty high max temp rating @ 125C so I don't know if margins are getting a little thin there. I'll take a look at my 1815 install and see what I set pin 5 to - whatever it is, it works great for me with zero sync or noise related problems. Another change I performed was to disable the one-shot pulse generator in the 1815 so when the ouput trips high on a zero crossing, it stays high until rearmed which is typically just before the next negative-going zero crossing. A knowledgeable MS installer/enthusiasist relates that it helped his BMW installs quite a bit. Don't really know what effect it had on my install, I had good results with the recommended RC one shot components anyway.

-Mike

pmrobert

The 2907 is a frequency to voltage converter not a zero crossing detector. Use for a tachometer would be typical. Keep looking! There are probably some unknown cool parts out there that haven't been stumbled across yet.

RX-S7V7N

I´m going to buy more parts to build a second VR circuit, since the intake is getting more time , i have space for some more testing on the table.

Will check if the coils noise still interfere if the VR is inside or closer the CAS, if it works better
i can isolate it from the engine high temp.


But i notice it´s no synchronized , the electric engine can rotate the CAS to 1500rpm, is somthing misssing ?

No noise, some sensors not connected thats all

RX-S7V7N

not synchronized ?.

Someone to give me help on this, i have Dual wheel, 24 teeth, "some people say 12"
Cam wheel
Rising Edge
crank

On the table it fires and injectors work, software says NOT SYNCED, RPM is +- 1500

RX-S7V7N

Back to work on MS.

Since live don´t give me too much time only now i start to work again on it.

I have made some reading and Ken say to put PIN 14 of the LM t ground, i did it.

Also upgrade to firmware ms2extra_2.1.0_release_20090627, make all
adjustments and fired it up on table, RPM ~1300 injectores working and
most important it SYNCRONIZE, all was stable and i attach the scope, and
there is was a perfect input and output, no noise nothing.

I let it run for some time and than the injectors stop working, Megatune not
reading RPM, save the settings reflash it but again, no RPM, no inject working
and the signals from CAS still on input and output of the LM.


Any reason the MCU not reading the RPM since the signal is there?

RX-S7V7N

maybe this is the problem.

the signal looks inverted compared to other ones, is the only difference i notice
on all this that i have change.

Still, i don´t know why the signal change to inverted or different than it was
before.

Any help on this people, i´m killing my brain trying to solve it, is the LM bad ?

RX-S7V7N

That signal is correct, it was the other one that have problems, check it with the scope
and no output from the LM, make it working by turning the VR´s.

Maybe at first the signal have some problem and i have try everything including the VR´s so
after signal was there it still didn´t work cause no correct VR settings.

Testing ms2extra_alpha-3.0.3---20090912 on table now.

RX-S7V7N

Hello, i´m back.

It looks that i manage to continue this project, so i have new pics
and also new questions.


















The question, i have 8 inj ,,, each is about 230~280CC with 13 ohm, if i use 4 in parallel i will end up with about 3~ ohm, should i use a resistor to change this value ?

Is ok to connect 4 lower injectors in parallel for primary and the other 4 in top for secondary ?

one resistor per injector or a single one for all ?

Will post more pics later........