My '83 Project: MS2 3.57 with Zeal
 

I have read both pinned threads by muythaibxr. I have read through Aaron Cake's Megasquirt info on his site. I have also read through the info at http://stuff.pw.cx/Megasquirt%20MS2%...azda%20CAS.pdf. However, I'm still a little confused.

If I read it all correctly, all of the info and pics are directed at MS1 computers. I have an MS2 3.57. I bought it preassembled and I also bought the Zeal Engineering VR daughterboard and assembled it myself. My question is how do I combine them now to work together so that I can wire up my ignition system. I am planning to run the stock FC CAS (untouched) and FC coils.

Any help will be appreciated. I can supply pics if needed.

Thanks.

Aaron Cake's howto at the top of the MS section tells you how to do it for ms2. Just follow that one.

Ken

I don't cover the 3.57 and Zeal just yet because I have not had my hands on them. The inputs and outputs are the same though. Wire the VR conditioner on the Zeal to the same place you would wire the LM1815 circuit. The 3.57 has pullup resistors already on the LEDs so wire those to the DB37 as my writeup specifies. Then wire the VR inputs on the Zeal to the DB37.

I've done some searching around and I found THIS and some other info on the Zeal instruction page, so I'm trying to work through that information and get to soldering. It looks like I only have about 12 places to solder. 3 of them are jumper wires to PADs 1, 2, 3, 12, 14, and 16. The rest are as follows:

12v - S12
5v - S5
Gnd - Proto Gnd
Gnd - SG
VR2+ - PAD15
VR2- - PAD13
VR2 Out - JS10
IN1 - JS11
OUT1 - PAD11
Note* this is info straight from the page, so I am not the author.

It looks likes it may easier than I thought, but I do have a few questions. First, JS10 is already occupied, so should I connect VR2out there anyway? Second, I don't have a Proto area on my board, so where do I put the Proto Gnd? Third, I don't see any LEDs on my MSII, so what LEDs am I looking for? I just don't want to mess up the computer before I get the chance to use it.

Thanks for your help guys.

What is JS10 occupied by?

The LEDs are the three on the front of the main board.

Ken

hi muythaibxr (Ken),

i'm working on this project with him. JS10 was a jumper wire to Q16's middle slot, though i don't know what it's actual purpose was. you can disregard what afterburner16 said, the instructions said to remove it, so i did. when i get a desoldering iron to remove the leftover remnants of the previous connection, VR2 OUT will go there as instructed.

as of this writing, i've done most of the connections listed. the only part that is left somewhat of a puzzle is the Proto Ground area. i still haven't located it. i do see a spot with 4 slots (ground x 2 and 5v x 2) just below the H1 jumper, so i think that may be the 3.57s Proto ground area. basically i ran out of wire today, so after i go to Radio Shack tomorrow, the Zeal should be totally installed and hopefully (fingers crossed) ready to go soon as i finish wiring the car.

however, about the LEDs, i can vouch for there not being any on this unit. just for the sake of us being on the same page, i am actually looking for red LEDs (like what i've seen in so many MegaSquirt photos) and not something else, right?

The 3.57 uses tiny surface mount LEDs, and already has pullup resistors with pads ready for soldering.

In the following image they are D154, D16 and D14 at the left:

http://www.megamanual.com/357/V357_silk.gif

From the Megamanual:

"The three front-panel LEDs have been converted to surface mount devices. These cannot be easily viewed through the standard LED end-panel holes, but are easily visible with the case lid off. If front-panel LEDs are desired then the surface mount units are removed and jumper wires installed in place. Also, since the LED drivers are often used for alternative output applications with the spare outputs, there is a new 1K Ohm pull-up resistor connected to the driver transistors, and this connection is available on the PAD1, PAD2, and PAD3 PCB terminals (see schematic for details). "

:) thanks Aaron,

i located them with your post and, they are, indeed, there. the only reason i don't feel like a complete dumbass is because i was able to reason with myself and realize that i don't do this stuff everyday, so LEDs have managed to come a long way since i did this on a regular basis.

anyway, i got my desoldering iron a few minutes ago and i'm going to work on this thing. i hope i'm right about the Proto Ground spot. i'd love to hear from you or anyone that may know. i'll go check the Megamanual that you quoted above, as i see there has been some new information i have not seen.

You are right regarding the Proto ground spot! Just did the v3.57/Zeal conversion on a FD, and made it work. We found an error in DIY's write-up, so if you follow that be aware...
JP1 should be in the 1-2 position to enable the VR circuit, not 2-3 as they tell you.

thanks, man. i had to go back and move that jumper that you mentioned, but so far all is good as far as i can tell. hopefully i can get the car wired bay the middle of next week (i still need to get a fuse box and satisfactory common grounding point) and then it's just a matter of loading the software and trying for the first start.

Well, we got some work done today. Have a few questions just to doublecheck with more experienced people. I think we made good progress with wiring and this is how we have it. We saw a slight difference in the www.diyautotune.com and Aaron Cake diagrams, so we went with the diyautotune diagram since that's what we used to build the Zeal board.

G+ = pin 25 (blue/white IAC1A)
G- = pin 27 (blue/white IAC1A)
Ne+ = pin 24 (have not located it yet)

Lead coil red wire = pin 36

Trailing coil red wire = pin 31 (green/white IAC2A)
" " " white wire = pin 29 (green/white IAC2A)
" " " black wire = tach signal (on the car's harness)

Does this look right as far as the ignition system goes? Thanks.

There is no right and wrong, you can use whatever spare pins for whatever signals you so choose. I tend to use the spare outputs and IAC pins for extra I/O and avoid moving around the "stock" pins like ignition to prevent confusion in the future.

Why do you need the tach wire?

as far as i can tell, it's the only way the tachometer will get a signal to work with. am i correct? is there another way to do this?

The tachometer on the 2nd gen rx7 is driven from the trailing ignitor.

Ken

You got the V3.57, right? I followed the instructions from DIY and used the DB15 connector... Seems like you are following the instructions for connecting the V3.0 and NOT the V3.57.
http://www.diyautotune.com/tech_arti...zda_fc_rx7.htm
Function: Stock wire color: V3.57 connection
NE +: Red : DB37 Pin 24
NE - :White : GND (DB37 pin 2 on our harness)
G + :Green :DB15 pin 3
G - :White w/ black stripe :DB15 pin 4
Leading coil 12V :Tan :12 volt switched power
Leading coil IGT: Red :DB15 pin 10
Leading coil ground: Black :Engine GND
Trailing coil 12V: Tan (2 wires) :12 volt switched power
Trailing coil IGT :Red :DB15 pin 11
Trailing coil select: White :DB15 pin 12
IGF :Yellow :Not used by MS
Trailing coil tach signal: Black :To tach

as far as i know, so is the tachometer of the Gen I. however, i have to marry the Gen II coil/ignitor assembly to a Gen I car.

aye. aye. aye. you know what? you're absolutely right. it looks like i screwed up the wiring. for the record, yes, he has a v.3.57, not a v.3.0.

he bought the 12-foot DB37 harness and i thought that everything had to be fed through that because it's the only wiring harness he got. i assumed the two ports on the other side of the case were to be used when we started tuning. i didn't realize that the DB15 that i kept seeing mentioned in the diyautotune instructions was one of those two ports. so it looks like i'm going to have to have him order a connector/harness for the DB15 port, and then proceed with wiring from there.

Just connect the 1st gen tach to the yellow/blue wire on the leading coil plug. It will work.

What are you guys doing for DB15 connections? I didn't see anything at the DIY site and the only thing I see on other sites are basically VGA cables. Should I just buy one and cut it up?

At this point I'm using the MS3 on a normal v3 board on my rx7 (well was before I took it apart to replace the rear main seal, clutch, pressure plate, and transmission). So I'm not using the DB15 at all.

Ken

for anyone interested. we found some at THIS SITE. however, i'm going to check with a local guy later today, if that doesn't work out, then i'll have afterburner16 place an order.

update time:

okay, as far as i can tell, i'm done with wiring and i'm trying to load the initial flash to the ECU. this process has been going painfully slow because of time and also because i guess i'm not as computer-savvy as i thought.

anyway, i have both MegaTune 2.25 and Tuner Studio loaded on my laptop, but i'm falling short on how to get either (or both) loaded on the MegaSquirt. i hate to seem like an idiot, but here i am. also, my JimStim construction got messed up, so i'm stuck doing this the hard way. however, if worse comes to worst, then i may just bend over and order another JimStim (i basically wrecked the processor, so i figure the board is now useless).

for now, if you guys can help me sort through this stuff, it would be great. if not, no worries either. thanks.

1

these are the sites i'm using to try get through this:

http://www.aaroncake.net/RX-7/megasquirt/ProgramMS2.asp
http://www.megamanual.com/megatune.htm#install
http://www.ideasandsolutions.biz/TunerStudio/download/

the problem is i can't seem to find/see the files that should help me install it on the ECU.

Neither megatune nor tunerstudio install on the MS. They are tuning software not firmware.

You need to go download a firmware image from the firmware thread and use the .bat file contained in that to load the firmware over the serial port to the MS.

Ken

thanks for that correction muythaibxr, i guess i had always used "firmware" and "software" interchangebly, i now know the difference. at any rate, i still didn't realize that MegaTune and Tuner Studio didn't have to be on the ECU.

i think i was successful in installing the firmware, and i think i was also successful in setting up some of the general parameters. i will continue to work on setting up the parameters and trying to find an honest-to-goodness .msq-file to load as an initial tune.

okay, well i spent the day trying to get it fired to no avail. i'm still searching through threads to find out why i'm not getting any spark. my guess is miscommunication (or no communication) between the MSII and the crank angle sensor, but i have yet to figure out how to confirm that.

at any rate, the only question i have at this time is: in the Ignition Options table, where everyone says to set the Spark A output pin to D14, should i select JS10 (because i'm using the 3.57 and Zeal, and i followed the DIYAutoTune instructions for wiring with the DB15)? so far i have tried both settings and neither one yields spark at the coils, but i want to make sure i'm starting with the right setting as i try to troubleshoot.

i've gone over the wiring several times. as far as i can tell, everything is as it should be.


this is a useful thread for me (pay no attention): Rx7 Mini thread

Are you getting RPM? Does tunerstudio communicate with the firmware?

Can you post an msq?

Ken

i think the simple is no. if i recall, there was an impossible 5 digit number in the RPM field ... something over 60,000.
as far as i can tell, yes. a few messages aside, it seems to communicate with it just fine.
if i don't get it right now, i will keep trying. i have a couple i can post. i've been kind of having fun trying to come up with VE tables. :) if worse comes to worst, and i am unsuccessful in posting it here, would you be willing to let me email it?

Something over 60000 is a configuration error. You have a settings conflict. Try to find out what the actual number is.

Ken

when you say settings conflict, are you specifically talking about an input error on my part in Tuner Studio or does that include possible conflicts between Tuner Studio and the firmware? i ask simply because usually when i am using Tuner Studio online with the car, when they connect, it gives me a message referring to some fields (i forget which right now) and i pretty just OK and move on. the next time i go back to the car, i will pay closer attention though. for the record, i'm using version 3.0.3.

also, i've been going over some of the wiring instructions and something struck me. where it says the Ne- signal should go to pin 2 (MSII ground), should it matter if i grounded it by itself? considering i made a special ground harness and the MSII grounds were incorporated into it, i'd tend to think not, but i'm going to try to not take anything for granted. so that's why i'm asking.

There are some settings conflicts between the various settings in the MS that can't be prevented with the tuning software.

If you get RPM over 60000 one of these configuration conflicts has happened. It means that there is a conflict between 2 of the settings that are set in the firmware.

Ken

so should i try to wipe the firmware and load an older version or is there a way for me to rectify the conflicts within it?

You have to figure out what the actual problem is and then find the settings that are conflicting. Wiping the firmware or going to another version is not the proper fix.

You can use the mini-terminal feature of tunerstudio or megatune to see what the cause is.

Just turn off the MS, open the mini terminal (set to the proper comm port) and then turn the MS back on. It'll tell you what the problem is.

Ken

(from this THREAD)

would any of this apply to MSII?

it would, except if you're getting a config error, in which case you need to fix that before you do anything else.

Ken

I also had that 65535 rpm, in megatune 2.25 this happens strangely if you use in this menu 'every rotation of crank instead of cam

You probably have other settings that are incorrect causing an impossible configuration. Please post the whole msq.

Ken

okay, it took a few weeks, but i was finally able to get back to the car yesterday and try this. the message i got was, "trigger offset must be zero in EDIS and trigger wheel mode." so what i did was to go and set the ignition to EDIS and change it to zero, burned it, then went back and changed it back to toothed wheel. the car still doesn't spark when i crank it, but the message is gone when i bring up the Mini Terminal.

i think i'm going to go back, yet again, check the wiring for the coils and crank angle sensor. however, i think i'm at the point where i'm going to need a fresh pair of eyes for any true progress or new ideas to be made.

yep, that's the number. :) i actually had mine saying "crank" before, but i switched to "cam" (just in case) and tried it. the Tach needle (in Tuner Studio) stayed pinned on 8000 and it still showed the 65535 RPM.

there's probably nothing wrong in the wiring, there is a configuration error. Please post the whole msq.

Ken

here it is.

okay, let me try it this way. does anyone have a "working" *.msq that they could share? i see 1 view on the one that i posted, but no feedback thus far. i've spent the last couple of days going over my wiring (just in case) and i can say i'm satisfied at this point. mini terminal is now clear when i do the procedure muythaibxr described above.

on a sidenote, i've been so engrossed in all these spark issues that i had forgotten that i'd left the coolant temperature circuit undone because i was waiting to find the right pigtail for it. so, as soon as i get that and some loom, wiring will be 100% complete!

i don't know if configuration is dictated by what version MegaSquirt one has, but here are the cliff's note on this particular setup:
MS II 3.57 (using a self-made DB15 cable for CAS and coil trigger circuits)
Gen II ignition system

so anyone have complete file that fits this that they could share, please, by all means.

Here is the one I have now for the renesis, I had it running with the FC cas also, altough I did not save the msq,

I think i put all the setting back as they were.. so here oyu find it attached, hope it can help you..

Don't look at the rest of the file as it is only very basicly tuned..

I'll let him know you posted that. He's here. We were just working on the car and I think he's having a stroke. :lol:

I am on vacation now, so I am posting from my phone. When I get home I will post one of my old ms2 tunes. I have made a lot of drivability improvements since going to ms3 but it should still help.

Ken

i've been having other problems complicate my plight even more. i think my USB adapter cable (or it's driver) stopped playing nice with the computer, so now whenever i open Tuner Studio and bring the MegaSquirt online, the bloody computer goes dead with a stop error!

anyway, Rub20B, i was able to load your *.msq and burn it. i'm still not getting any spark or any signs of RPM in Tuner Studio. i did get 5 warnings though:

1. egoTarget not in current configuration. Value ignored.
2. mafOption not in current configuration. Value ignored.
3. mapsample_percent not in current configuration. Value ignored.
4. feature 413_dbg not in current configuration. Value ignored.
5. feature 413_missdbg not in current configuration. Value ignored.

i'm at my wit's end now.

EDIT: by the way, thanks for the file. :)

much appreciated. i hope you're having a good time wherever you are.

quick question: how does the MSII know when something is connected to it's DB15 port?

i'm starting to think my problems are in the DB15. i'm thinking since i am still not getting spark with an *.msq file/configuration that is known to work, then it must be a communication failure between the CAS and the MSII. my brother tested the hardware (the CAS and both coils) and everything spec'd out fine.

do you have any thoughts on this theory?

Have you verified the 2nd VR (LM1815) is working? ypou can easily do this by just using a led with a resistor on the output wire, you should see the led blink when you turn the CAS by hand

no. i did not think to do that, but i will. hopefully, i will be able to go over to the car tomorrow. thanks for the idea. just for clarification, when you say output wire, you're speaking of the wires that carry the MSII signal to each coil, right?

no I was referring to the wire that goes from the 2nd LM1815 circuit to the MS2, if you attach a led between ground and that wire (use a resisor or led will die) you should see the led blink a very sort time when you spin the CAS by hand. this proves that the 2 tooth VR circuit is working

OK, he just pulled it apart again. Is that between Gnd and SG or Gnd and Proto gnd? He realized that he may have reversed those two wires. So he fixed that as well.