ms2 and rpms working...!?!
 

you may recall my thread before about a month ago... https://www.rx7club.com/megasquirt-forum-153/new-v3-build-still-no-rpm-reused-old-processor-696142/

i had no rpm on ms1 or ms2 extra. well i got some help and it should work now. im going to put it on the car tomorrow and i was hoping someone might over look my msq and see whats up. its using the 24 tooth wheel, 550/1680cc, and hopefully like 15psi, stock temps, stock coils.... pretty much the ms2 w/2nd vr built in proto. im really just trying to check the rpms for working. but if all goes well i may try to start. still gotta switch my fan and weld flange for bov.

thanks for looking

I'll have some time to check this later today or tomorrow.

cool cool... or anyone else running ms2extra 1xxx see anything...?

well i hooked up to the car today. i got rpms. about 190 on crank. i got fuel pressure and action at my injectors(audible), i got spark, and all sensors seem to register correctly. about 4*C temp. i could not get it to catch though. i was hoping for a bark or some indication of ignition. i smelled the plugs after a few tries, and i think i have really stale gas. i parked the car in february to build up with about a half gallon in the tank. so i will be getting some fresh premium gas tomorrow morning and try my best to dilute what is in the tank now. ill get like 10 gallons. i think the stale gas is why it wont catch. plus my timing is off too. ill try to set timing as well tomorrow.

still like to see if anyone can look over my msq. i know its a weekend and nobody is online during weekends... but im hoping.

yay! first step forward since june.

There should be a drain plug at the bottom of your gas tank should you be interested in draining it out instead of diluting it with fresh.

good info. i didnt know that. thanks

im not 100% about the bad fuel, but im not sure of my pulsewidths for cranking either. i have a 1.0 opening time and a canking scale of like 100%-250% from 80- -10*C. not sure but it was way higher before. i thought the scale was way off. so i adjusted a few things.

I took a quick look at your MSQ, you might want to zero out your priming pulse for the time being. It's possible to cause flooding while trying to get the car started.

I dont have the ms2 but i'm looking through your settings and I see your main cas wheel is set to cam, should it be set to crank? I'm curious also?

quasar-from what ive read on ms2extra with 24 tooth cas, this is set to cam. check H4Inf. he has adobe how-to on ms2 with no missing tooth setup. thats what i followed. and this is the first time my rpm has worked since june... so im reluctant to change it. hahaha.

gross-i suppose you mean zero out all through the temp range since i really dont know what my pulse should be? should i do that on my cranking too? ive still not had the car start and run at normal op. so i dont know what my pulsewidths should be at normal running. it was like 4*C yesterday and today its like 10*C. so im working over a wide range.

Ok, i'm learning this stuff myself now. I think i'm going to soon get a ms2 chip.

The triggers are set to cam because the CAS is geared to spin 1/2 speed of the crank, much like a cam angle sensor on a recip engine.

Priming pulse is not needed to start your car for the first time. Zeroing out the pulse through out the temperature range will effectively turn it off. All it does is run the pump when you turn the key on and shoot fuel into the port for the duration specified on the table. You can easily flood the car if you turn the key on and off a few times without cranking.

it started!!! did it stay running..? no. but it ran for about 10 seconds. i tried to do a datalog... because i think i got the cranking pulsewidths and afterstart good enough to run, but i think when it cycles out of WUE and goes to VE table it dies. i was trying to get it right with out adjusting the throttle plates. i need to learn more about how the datalog works so i can post it. still need to check my timing. havent found the timing light yet. YYEEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!

once i got the cranking pulses close enough to catch, i turned off ASE, and tuned WUE. i managed to make it run about 6 times tonight while playing with WUE and the taper, and scaling the VE table up a bit. i think that when WUE was ending after 150 or so revs, VE table was a little lean. but its starting up in the 80-90kpa range then starting to go down a bit, but doesnt run long enough.

Congrats! Just a little more tweaking and you'll be idling in no time.

i dont know what to do with my 2 datalogs

i think my biggest problem was the accell enrichments. so im gonna turn it off for now. i noticed as i played with the throttle while trying to idle... the pw was jumping too. i don think it should do that. figured i could see if i need more or less fuel by giving some throttle to smooth out. obviously if it smooths out with some throttle, im too rich. so when i gave it throttle, i was just richening it up more. der. was also thinking of taking some fuel out around where it was trying to idle, to get it to go down some. i think the lowest i saw on my datalog was like 66kpa. but i didnt get a datalog of any of my "good" runs if you can call it that. does this sound right?

new msq
 

my latest revision

Judging from your injector characteristics, you're running either high impedance injectors, or a resistor pack on low impedance injectors?

to tell you the truth, i cant remember. its been 5 months since ive messed with the car. they are stock primary inj. from 88 gxl s4 na. red tops i believe. and my secondaries are 1680 bosch. pretty sure they were both high imp.

is this the table that is in the basic cranking window? this table has been confusing me becasue there is an option for "standard prime" or "priming table" but the table lower in the window is called "priming/cranking PW" do these in fact fire one time per turn of the key and one time only, or do they effect the PW at cranking?? for example, if my coolant is at 60 deg C and i have the bin set to 5.0ms in this mystery table. lets say i have to crank for about 3 seconds before it gets out of cranking mode (running). is it using this PW of 5.0 for all the cranking injection events? is it taking this value and adding it to the required fuel value to give me a net of about 15.1?

S4 NA injectors are 460cc, your req fuel is a bit higher than mine on 550 primaries as well as your bins around idle on the VE map. Easiest way to check the type, put a multimeter across the injector plugs and see what resistance you're getting. If you're around 12 ohms, then your current injector characteristics are fine. If it's around 2 ohms, then you will need to set up the PWM.

It appears that your injector opening time is set to 2.0ms, change that down to 1.0ms, stock injectors don't take that long to open.

I'm also getting some warnings when opening your MSQ, I don't know exactly what they are though, maybe Ken can take a look and see what he thinks.

I attached my current MSQ as an example. 550 primaries, 720 secondaries, both low impedance driven by PWM on the MS. Car cold starts perfectly and drives great, far from perfect tune, but might possibly be beneficial to those who are wondering about specifics for setting up.

im gonna look at yours tonight. i got my spark table from bdc and generated a fuel map. i got my opening time set at 2.0 i think. when i started playing with warmup and ase. i was putting large numbers in there, so i just did a double onthe pw.

i got the car started today many times. it almost ran for a minute once. got the timing set good today. its right on now. so i went to my spark table for now. it was running good, and then it would die off. i know i have a pressure leak. probably in my hoses for boost controller. it was averaging around 60kpa when it would get running. the rpms were a bit bumpy, and it would stumble sometimes. but it ran honest to goodness "running". i started to play with the ve table, taking out some fuel. that seemed to keep the rpms steady, and after several seconds... like 15 or so, the map would go up. its like i couldnt keep the kpa down. so it would go up to the 70-80kpa range and stumble(untuned fuel area). i tried to keep rpms down by taking out fuel from the table but then it would die sooner. im posting a datalog of something from tonight. i dont know if it looks like i have vr noise or what. actually i cant load the datalog its too big.

i looked at your fuel table and maybe i need to add some rpm bins and try to tune richer where i can get it to idle and lesser all around. i will get my wideband hooked up tomorrow. maybe this will help. couldnt find a t1 or t5 to do the cap on the vr circuit for noise. and hopefully i can get my leak fixed too.

been trying to figure out how to cut down my datalog to fit on here. i might use one to show you with a less tuned shorter run.

also prolly help if i weld the exhaust up... open downpipe.

With an open downpipe, if your wideband is mounted near the open end, oxygen can be drawn in across the sensor from the exhaust pulses, giving a leaner signal than what is actually present. Not a major change in pw or anything, but it might hinder some progress.
Also, are you sure you want to turn off ASE?...it sounded like you were getting it dialed in when you said it would run for an entire minute. A bit richer in WUE would be the next step I would think.

Generally, you want to turn off ASE and WUE, and use req_fuel to get the engine running until it's warm, then dial back req_fuel to where it was, and adjust the VE table to keep the engine running.

Then next time you start cold, you can start adjusting WUE and ASE without adjusting the VE table.

The fuel table that gets generated is way too lean for a rotary, so that's probably what's causing your problem.

Ken