Johnny Kuro

The car is an S4 N/A. I am rebuilding it soon and doing a half bridge port. All emissions removed, A/C is removed, BAC is removed, OMP removed (can't be run by MS anyway if i understand correctly). Not sure if it matters, but i'll add that i also have a full exhaust and k&n intake. Future plans include e-fans and most likely ITB's

I have spent the last few days doing a LOT of reading trying to get the most info i can to make an informed decision but would like a little help from the experts.

To start with let me specify that i have an absolute maximum budget of $3000. This includes anything for the rebuild itself (there's 1k right there i assume), a clutch and flywheel which i have managed to find a good combo for around $600+/- and any tools and other small parts (plugs, wires, fluids). So for the sake of trying to stay around $2000 and not max out my card here is my original thought:

MS-III v3 DIY kit, DIY breakout adapter to connect to factor harness, and to use all factory sensors, ignition, narrowband o2, and stock MAF (due to intake configuration). From my reading this should be possible, albeit not recommended. Doing it this way would save me about $300 (eliminating both MS harnesses, WBo2 kit, GM sensors if i have my info right).

OR

MS-III v3, MS3X, both harnesses, gm sensors, WBo2 as per Aaron's writeup. (anyone use this? APSX V2 Anti-Glare D2 Digital Wideband O2 AFR Gauge & Sensor Kit Black & WHITE. found them for a bit less than AEM or Innovate) A question i have here is can i make use of all my stock relays and fuses? and then what are my options to keep my current intake since the MAF gets tossed, but it is incorporated in the design. I should mention i do have a spare k&n cone filter laying around that could be used but the actual kit looks way nicer

Going the suggested route really kicks up my spending and makes me compromise a bit on my clutch/flywheel choice to keep things manageable. Is it substantially better to go this route? The more i read the more i like the idea of just doing it the best way i can, but the money is a big factor. Any and all help and insight will be greatly appreciated, and sorry for the long winded post. if anyone wants links to what i've been looking at or more info just let me know

Aaron Cake

iTrader: (1)

Your S4 has a mechanical metering oil pump. It is independent of the ECU so it doesn't matter how you fuel or spark the engine.

$1K for the rebuild assuming you don't need to replace any engine internals such as housings or rotors. If the engine is running fine now, then you're probably OK, but until it's opened up, you never know.

You don't need to change the clutch or flywheel. Save that money. Unless you are balancing the engine you won't be hitting RPMs that the stock flywheel will not handle. You also won't overpower the NA clutch. Thus you can save the money for more important things.

I would HIGHLY, HIGHLY, HIGHLY recommend NOT using the stock harness. Unless it is in perfect condition, as in showroom amazing, then it is just going to cause you more headaches, trouble and frustration. Every standalone I have seen installed with the factory harness has been nothing but a royal pain in the ***, which the harness eventually being replaced anyway after spending far too much time chasing all the little issues. Believe it or not, it is WAY easier for a first timer to just use the MegasSquirt harness instead of trying to adapt the stock harness.

I would also recommend just using the GM sensors. They are cheap. If you really must, you can get a used GM IAT and CLT with pigtail from the wreckers for a few dollars. Or go to the local auto parts store and get the sensor with pigtail brand new for $15.

You do not need to use the stock AFM. The Megasquirt is a speed density ECU that is also capable of running AlphaN.

You can save some money on the wideband by using the Spartan Lambda Sensor from 14Point7 | High Performance Tuning Tools for High Performance Engines

Here's what I'd recommend in your case if saving money is the primary goal:

MS2 V3.5 w/Zeal daughtercard. You can always upgrade to MS3 later by plugging in the daughtercards and making some wiring changes. GM sensors. Spartan wideband. MS harness.

Johnny Kuro

thanks for your advice here, i appreciate it (even if its not what i want to hear lol). also i watched your install video and it looked easy enough. i did wonder about using the stock relays and fuses rather than needing to add that stuff to the parts list. is that possible? i've pretty much talked myself out of using the stock harness at this point. it will clean up the bay more and have peace of mind with all new wiring. i'm actually considering the haltec sprint re now as well (about same $ as the MS3 + wriring and sensons and all mentioned in first post from my calculations) and i don't have to build it. doing lots of research about both to get a better picture

clutch is being changed due to type of driving i'll be doing and i have had it slip on hard shifts on multiple occasions. flywheel because of weight savings and better revving (had one in my wrx and noticed the difference so expecting the same here). i'm not going crzay either. most likely an Exedy stage 1 and still deciding on flywheel, but found a good price for a fidanza 9lb. or just use the RB so as not to go too drmamatically lighter...prices were similar

engine is finally out but i still have some time to make final decisions while i tear it down, port and assemble

Aaron Cake

iTrader: (1)

You can use the stock relays and fuses however you're probably going to find the need for an aux fuse panel anyway. No reason you can't power the 'Squirt the same way as the stock ECU (from the EGI relay) and have it switch the existing fuel pump relay. In an NA application the stock fuel pump wiring is adequate. But a separate relay and fuse panel for the ECU makes things far easier to troubleshoot, a bit easier to install, a neater installation. I know cutting costs is important but ECU wiring is not one of those areas to keep costs down.

I've personally never been a fan of lightweight flywheels, especially on an NA. Add a grabby clutch to that and the car is a royal pain in the *** to drive. Lightweight flywheels are for track use where the engine will constantly see high RPM. Not sure if that applies to drifting but I honestly don't know. Just trying to save you some money. If the stock clutch is slipping it's probably worn so yeah, a slightly upgraded replacement is the way to go.

If you get the MS3 w/MS3X you don't need to build anything by purchasing an assembled unit from DIY Auto Tune. The prices as you say are similar to the Sprint, but the Megasquirt provides so many more features it is a far, far better value. TunerStudio is worlds better than Halwin, the MegaSquirt's autotune is incredibly useful for getting a drivable map quickly. Plus Megasquirt has idle control (not on the Sprint) and a host of other features not found on the basic Haltech.

spokanerxdude

iTrader: (4)

Here in Spokane WA I90 highway go right through town and it has a fairly heavy grade to it as it leaves town. I put a light flywheel in my 88 convertible and now I have to go up that hill in 4th because I lost so much torque. Don't do it unless you are going to race alot!! Keep in mind this is my opinion and it doesn't have to be yours, just throwing out my thoughts.

Johnny Kuro

maybe i'll go with the midweight one then? how bad can it really be? i'd like to be able to bring the rpms up faster and with less effort. plus i don't mind downshifting maybe my budget will prevent getting one anyway since i need a counterweight along with it. we will see