Terrh

iTrader: (7)

MAPdot sucks ***.

I am going to an S5 TB and TPS tomorrow, I think that will solve like, 90% of my problems. I have a ported/TB mod throttle body, and I think it's causing problems.

I also disabled o2 correction because it was making the car run far worse.

the car idles reasonably well, it doesn't sound quite right though, and I still can't get it to start when cold.
it cruises fine but too rich - but I think that going to TPS will help with that too.

I have the AFR's set to reasonable numbers now, I acidentally saw boost but only about 2psi, I don't think it hurt it any. The car is a freakin monster. Even just idling around I can tell that. It's also far more "streetable" than I imagined it would be. Plenty of torque at low revs, etc.

muythaibxr

If MAPdot isn't working right, then it just needs tuned right.

I personally have used it on a few different types of engines, including a rotary with no problems...

Same with O2 correction... Disabling it won't help, you have to tinker with it until the problem you're seeing goes away.

Going to TPS won't help your cruising issues at all.... you can't run alpha-n on a boosted engine anyway.

Terrh

iTrader: (7)

I think that MAPdot has issues with there being only 30KPA difference between idle and full load. (well until it's broken in anyways, but you see the point)

Right now I have to deal with my TB and then I can get some more fine-tuning done.

Any ideas on my starting issues would be appreciated!

it starts easily when hot, and it idles fine after running for 10 seconds. But won't start cold without a push, and seems to run on one rotor only for the first 2-3 seconds as well.

I have my tach/revs issues sorted out 100% now. I had to turn the screw on the voltage pot about 20 times and on R52 about what seemed like 100 times, I just turned and turned it until it didn't see revs while cranking anymore, then turned it back until /just/ saw consistant, correct revs while cranking.

coldfire

iTrader: (1)

well, of course you will have some starting issues while the motor has not been fully broken in yet, especially on an agressive port.

what are you supposed to do with ignition during startup? check that out maybe and see if that is proper. i don't know how cold start correction affects ignition, if at all.

and ditto about taking out the wideband for now. you don't want to foul it up.

Terrh

iTrader: (7)

I'm not sure if my ignition settings are correct on startup, but it starts fine with the starter when cold.

it runs like a general bag of **** for about 20 seconds on startup, but anytime the coolant temps are above 130F it runs great.

the idle is funny, it doesn't sound bridgeported and it doesn't sound stock either revving-down it sounds like a bridge, but once it settles into an idle it kinda sounds like a cammy 4cyl. Idle AFR's are around 13.0:1

Is the tach supposed to drop to 0 when I let off the gas at higher (above 3000) revs?

I also think that I'm STILL getting tach noise at higher RPM's, the tach looks OK but the megasquirt tach is bouncing all over the place plus or minus 300RPM at 3500. and something is wrong with my secondary injectors because when they are suppossed to go online the car misfires/etc and generally just doesn't run.

muythaibxr

are you just freerevving the engine to bring in the secondaries? If that's the case I'd almost expect the engine to do weird things when they come on, because when freerevving, there's almost certainly not enough air going by the secondaries.

The tach is not supposed to drop to zero unless you drop below 700-800 rpms.

The running crappy on startup and below 130 deg F just means you need to tune your warmup and afterstart enrichments.

The megasquirt will read a little noise, jumpiness of maybe 50-100 rpms isn't uncommon for most of the engines I've seen, but 300 makes me think you might have noise issues.

If you post your latest msq, I'll take a look at it after work.

Aaron Cake

iTrader: (1)

I just suggested Alpha-N as a troubleshooting measure, but it seems that things are progressing fine.

It runs like poop cold because the afterstart is not tuned. It will take some time to get that right since you really only get one chance at cold start per day.

Can you post a recording of the idle?

With all the testing and what-not you've done, how are the plugs at this point?

I've seen the tack noise before, so don't worry unless it's jumping wildly.

Terrh

iTrader: (7)

The (car) tachometer reads steadily, and doesn't jump around, until above 3500+ when it jumps around like crazy, like from 0-3500 and back. I have no TPS now, just using MAPdot. I've tuned it so it's much better, but it still isn't perfect. If I close the throttle at higher RPM the car tach drops to zero. until it's below about 2500. I don't think the laptop/MS tach does. 3500 has been my "redline" right now until I sort out the issues. the "agressive breakin" schedule says I could be up to 6k by now but I'm playing it safe.

I mistyped in my last post, the car won't start with the starter when cold, but anytime the coolant is above 120-130 it will start and run just fine. Anything between 100 and 120 it will be difficult to start, anything below 100 and it must be pushstarted at 1500-2000+rpm for 5-10 seconds bfore it'll catch, and run for 20+ seconds before it will run "properly". By ear, it seems to only fire on one rotor when it's cold. I hold it at WOT until it revvs up to 2000+ (which takes 10 seconds sometimes) , then it will run on both.

Freerevving the engine will result in a higher "terminal" RPM but still does not allow higher RPMs to be used. This is under load in 1st and 2nd't hat I've tried higher revs. With these ports its REALLY hard to stay out of boost, I thought for sure my car would be a lagmachine with the turbo I have. I wish I had a bigger one!

Latest .MSQ file and possibly a log will be up in about 15 minutes.

I don't know how the plugs are, I looked at them 2-3 days ago and they were clean and nice but they possibly may not be now. I'm going to buy some more new plugs tomorrow, and I think these wires may be less than perfect as well, so I'll get some new accell's.

muythaibxr

if the tach is dying, trailing is dying.... I'm willing to bet your trailing ignition table has something wrong.

Terrh

iTrader: (7)

k

5 more minutes, I promise!

I kinda forgot. going to get the laptop now.

Terrh

iTrader: (7)

so yeah, no .msq tonight since I haven't saved the current one, and the car isn't here I'll post it up tomorrow evening

Terrh

iTrader: (7)

so yeah

low MAP + above 2500RPM = no car tach.

Here's my (current) .msq and a short datalog of it at a warm idle.

I adjusted the pots on the MS a bit more, I think i had them adjusted TOO far clockwise so I turned them back a bit and my tach seems to be a bit more stable, secondaries still do not work I don't think. And still no cold starting.

I can't seem to get it to properly understand the output of the O2 sensor, the gauge reads say, 13.5 while the MS reads like 10.68.

I still need to move the RPM's over on my VE table because it ends 2000RPM before my intended redline and has 2 pretty much "useless" buckets since my idle is going to be at 1500-1600rpm.

muythaibxr

ok, your trailing table is nuts, the reason your tach is cutting out is because the whole bottom of your split table is at 21 degrees.... 21 will cut out trailing..... and there's hysteresis so it'll come back at 15 degrees of split. You can fix this by getting rid of the 21's and making them 20's

I have to admit, your split table looks a bit weird.

Staging isn't working because you've set it up to use the 2 parameter code, and both parameters are MAP...

Set the first parameter to RPMs, and set it to around 4000 rpms, and set the second parameter to MAP, set it to 1 condition and then set the MAP in "more staging" to 120 with a hysteresis of 10 or so. This is probably what's breaking your trailing.

another thing, you have your EGO settings set to mSec but you're doing the correction every 16 msec... that's a bit too fast, which is going to give you weird, rough running... I'd suggest changing that to around 100.

your accel enrichments are ridiculously high, and *will* cause problems... they shouldn't need to be more than 4 ms on the highest accel bin. Your mapdot threshold is so high that it probably won't even trigger accel... I'd suggest no higher than 60 for that threshold, and then set the accel time to around .5-.7 sec...

you also have your cranking pulse-width temps set to "CLT,MAT average"
change that to CLT based

If you're using a BAC valve, you're using the wrong settings for that in Idle Control

You have the AFR table completely turned off... so you're just using the EGO switch point... I'm not sure if you wanted to be doing that.

I would also, once you've enabled the AFR tables, change the "Change EGO limit above" setting to 100 kPa or so...

I would change Open loop mode to MAP, and change it to around 100kPa, or just disable it altogether.

your cranking advance angle is wrong for settings of 1,3,7,9 with a 60 deg angle, instead of 10 deg it should be 0 deg....

the spark table you're using looks a bit weird like in the 120 kPa bin, and in the 39 kPa bin

So far that's all I've found wrong.

Terrh

iTrader: (7)

lol wow, ok thanks

I'm going to copy and paste this to the lappy and go out and modify the map now.

I have the O2 feedback off because of the wacky numbers it was giving, and the fact that it was making the car run rough/weird. I'll try now with those numbers.

I have no idle air control, no p/s or a/c and a 1500rpm idle so I figured it would be unneccessary.

I'm going to start using 13bdarren's spark table, it's /way/ more agressive but works fine on his car so hopefully will on mine too. Has nearly double the total advance at low MAP (39 degrees vs my 20ish?)

thanks alot, I'll update this tonight after I go for a drive.

renns

I wouldn't mess with your spark map (other than that one idle cell) if it's still unmolested from when I sent it to you. That table had 30 degrees full advance at higher rpm and low map already. It's based on FSM published data, and should be a pretty conservative start. The split map does look wierd though. Not sure whether that was the code default table, or what. Check it and that other stuff that Muy mentioned. You are definitely going to have to rework the rpm, and possibly map bins as well for all tables, as your operating range is quite different from typical.

That FAQ really needs updating, as there are many differences in setup and code options in the latest code than are represented in the screenshots posted there. Once you get your setup sorted out, a brief description of your install with some software page screenshots would really help out.

Terrh

iTrader: (7)

roger, you've got PM.

I did some more tuning and adjusted the VE and spark table quite a bit.

Here's the latest map, and short log of freerevving.

It still won't rev past 4K, the tach goes all wacky too. Lots of jumpyness on the tach. it's reflected in the log slightly. I'm starting to suspect my CAS wiring. About 6" of it is unshielded (by the CAS) and I think I should try and shorten that to 1" or less, so I'll rewire it.

Terrh

iTrader: (7)

Also, I have O2 feedbackdisabled because the MS seems to think that the O2 reading is far richer than it really is..... I've tried a bunch of different O2 settings but I can't get it to work.

Anyone on here have an AEM wideband? what should I change to make it work!?

muythaibxr

you have to change settings.ini to reflect the 0-5v signal that your wideband outputs. For that you need to look at the manual. It should tell you what 0v is and what 5v is AFR or lambda wise, and using that you should be able to configure it to work with the MS.

The comment about the spark table was mainly that there were a few bins that looked like they were out of place.

renns

What's the normal operating voltage of your WB? At higher voltages there's some leakage across a protection diode in the O2 input circuit (D11?), that causes small errors at higher voltages. There's a long thread discussing that issue on msefi.com. Not sure on your WB setup though, as most seem to be running the LC-1, or old-school diy-wb. Try a search at msefi for more details. You'll have much more luck there and here for that type of info.

muythaibxr

renns, I think that leakage current problem only exists on the 2.2 board... if he's using a v3 board he shouldn't be having that problem. If he is running a 2.2 board, then taking out that diode will fix the problem

Terrh

iTrader: (7)

pretty much everything seems to be working great now, aside from revs.

I'm wondering if the sheilding on my CAS wire is insufficient or something. Car runs fine up to 4krpm. I'm still not convinced the secondaries are working BUT the tach issue needs to be fixed first.

13bdarren

What size injectors are you using I have 550/1600 and my scaling factor is set to 120 I notice your is around 158 That would cause the problem. And are you running high or low imp. injector I think all 1600 are low so you need the resistor pack.

muythaibxr

did you go through all the settings changes I told you about? Your tach dropping to 0 is because of your split timing. The tach runs off the trailing igniton, so if you're not firing trailing, the tach won't work.

Also, did you fix the staging settings? I'm almost certain that's the cause of your not being able to rev above 4000.

Terrh

iTrader: (7)

I adjusted the settings.ini to reflect an AEM UEGO wideband but it still reads "wrong"

I changed all the other settings you mentioned as well - I'd post my latest .MSQ but I don't have my laptop here

I fixed the staging settings and the trailing signal, the tach nolonger drops to zero in high vacuum - but it does jump all over the place and the car misfires/backfires/etc if I try to rev past 3500 whether there's load or not.

other than the no high revs issue and the wideband, the car's running fantastic.

darren, I'm running slightly larger secondaries (1680) and way larger primaries (720), so that's why my scaling factor is set at 153 or whatever it is.

I'm using a DSM resistor pack for all my injectors as they're all low imp.

renns

In playing with the new hires code, I see that those 21's listed in the split table are the default values included with the code. That needs updating for future releases.