so if cant fit the vr conditioner and the boost control circuit in the proto area, that would solve that probem?

pat

 

yeah, that's really all I'd use it for.... so I don't have to try stuffing everything in the proto area.

 

ok, so i got it all soldered together, minus one transistor that i broke the leads off of.

my question right now is, is the dual VR setup actually a better system than 2 missing teeth? What is the advantage of adding the second VR circuit?

and I am assuming that the ign outputs replace the LED and the LED resistor (or is the resistor still there?), and are jumpered to the spare DB37 pins, correct?

thanks
Pat

 

are you going to run vb921s?? If that's the case you'd pull the LEDs and the LED transistors, and replace the 1k resistors with 500-600 ohm resistors, and wire the vb921 input pins there... I'm not sure which pins are which on the vb921 because I've never used them.

To protect the ecu better, you could leave the leds and transistors and resistors in place, and add some 500 ohm-1k pullup resistors from +5v to the negative leads of the leds (do this as shown in the faq pic), then run the vb921's from there.

With the first setup you'd want spark output inverted, and with the second you'd want normal.

For the VR circuit, the only thing better about the 2 vr setup is that you can use any of the teeth as triggers and returns. With the 12-1 single vr setup, you can't use the teeth that are missing so you really only have 11 teeth to use as triggers/returns. Other than that there is no advantage... and 12-1 is a lot easier with the v3 board since the v3 board already has a VR conditioner built-in.

 

My local megasquirt guy told me that there doing the finishing touches for a 3 rotor mega squirt. Capable of controlling split. Is this something new? Or what has already been discussed?

 

who's the local megasquirt guy? I don't know of anyone that's doing this... and it's definitely not in any of the current megasquirt code versions.

 

Someone here in nebraska. He said there buttoning up a few issues and should be ready soon. I dont know if he really knows what is involved with the 3 rotor. I know he has setup a couple 13b's.

 

would it be dieselgeek? in omaha? He (or anyone for that matter) could do leading only right now, but with the current code, there's no way anyone could do leading and trailing with adjustable split from the split table unless he wrote the code or got someone to write the code for him (without contributing it back to the msefi forum).

Maybe he's doing dual edis6 modules or something? That could be the case.

Currently the rotary code only supports three outputs... one for leading wasted, and the other two for 2nd or 3rd gen style trailing.

Last I heard he's got one 13b on a 2nd gen. He posted on this forum a couple times actually. I guess he could have more and he's just not keeping us updated.

Ken

 

that would be sweet...save me the time and trouble of writing the code. either way, my project is coming along well, and I expect to get to the wiring aspect in a week or two, so I'll have to write the code for it then if i can figure it out.

 

Just talked to dieselgeek, he says he doesn't know of anyone with full leading/trailing running MS in Omaha.

He told me someone came to him asking about a haltech on a 20b a while ago, and he told him about the megasquirt.... but wasn't sure about leading only vs leading + trailing.

So I don't think anyone's actually doing it right now.

 

This is so aggravating. I've assembled a couple electronic devices in my past but, all this talk about codes and different boards and stuff is just plain confusing the hell out of me. I also have plans of doing a MS 20b. I don't even know where to start with all the different stuff I may need to order to make one.

 

There's 2 PC boards currently available - one is designated v2.2, the other is v3. There two processor chips currently available - the MS-1 and the MS-2. Either one will plug onto the processor DIP socket on either board. They do have actual processor cores (MS-1 = 908, MS-2 = 912) which are similar but require their own specific firmware code (the code that actually does the calculations, reads the sensors, fires the injectors and coils, interfacing realtime data via a serial port on the PC boards to a laptop running other software known as Megatune, etc.). There are 3 main varieties of the firmware code - The stock code preloaded on MS-1 processors is known as B&G v3.00. It has a limited feature set performing fueling only. This code is the base code written and released by Bruce Bowling and Al Grippo, the owners, inventors, board designers and trustees of the entire MegaSquirt project. their philosophy is to create and release a base hardware/software design, make it open source, then let the end users further enhance and develop. This is how "MegaSquirt'n'Spark Extra" firmware (usuaully versioned as 0.29L for example) for the MS-1 processor was developed - James and Phil (frequently found on the msefi.com forums) have tirelessly worked to add numerous features to the base code in a massive rewrite which alllows the MS-1 processor (on both v2.2 and v3 PCB hardware) to provide all of the expansive feature set of MSnS-Extra. There are hardware mods required for many of the expanded functions. This varies on the installed vehicle's equipment, etc., but is not overly difficult and is fairly well documented on the Extra website among other places. Ken (muythaibxr) has been extremely diligent in providing specialized support in all regards here on this forum as well as being intrumental in making the Extra code do rotary leading and trailing ignition correctly. Now, the MS-2 processor - this is a much faster processor with slightly less I/O with the base firmware still under development but very close to a code freeze from B&G which will be the formal green flag for the allied developers to start adding functionality to the base code (usually versioned as MS-2 v2.66 code, for example is the current beta). This can be and often is, very confusing to the MS newbie, no doubt. This project is being evolved, modified, debugged and enhanced at breakneck speed thus creating the myriad of versions and associated alphanumeric soup. Usually it's best to just read a lot, use the search functions of here and on msefi.com and ask questions if stumped. Again, this is frustrating in the beginning but the study is well worth it. This is already a very powerful EMS and there is other hardware and software in design and testing right now that will enable anything you could possibly dream of. There is a certain satisfaction of intimately knowing how your EMS works and in the tuning of same. There's lots of flame-free assistance available from a large group of experienced MS users to ease this learning curve. Babbling over,

-Mike, 25K+ miles in an injected, CAS ignition driven 12A.

 

t-von my strategy was (and is) to just buy the v3.0 and assemble it, then worry about what changes to make and etc. I usually find its a lot easier to do stuff like this one step at a time. Really what I'd like to do is run a 13b with it for a couple days to get used to it, then start changing over to 20b, but i dont have any spare running cars anymore.

either way, when I am finished with mine (probably 1-2 months) I will do a complete writeup for sure if anyone is interested.

pat

 

Thx guys the last two post made alot more since to me. I'm less confused now!


Pat, I'll be looking forward to your project. I too am a couple months away from installing my 20b into my Fd. I'm doing a custom NA project. I also was going to experiment with a 13b. I was going to install my old REW engine (minus turbos)into my 1st gen and familiarize myself with the ecu an tuning aspects. So eventually, I'll probably end up buying two MS kits.

 

t-von: have you looked at the faq? I believe everything that was said by the last 2 posters is there.

 

Actually I did a while ago, just didn't see anything on 20b's. I guess my mine overcomplicated things unnecessary because it was a 20b.

 

the FAQ answers most of the questions you had... most of the stuff in that FAQ is not specific to the 13B... Only the ignition stuff is 13b specific, and that's just as far as outputs go. As far as CAS inputs go, I believe it's the same.

 

i am considering just doing late leading rather than full trailing at this point, since i want to get this car running asap. is there any reason why i cant do this with the newest code for the v3?

thanks
pat

 

there isn't any code for late leading either.

Basically there's no need for either late leading or trailing as these engines run fine on just leading.

If you're not going to have trailing then I'd suggest just running plain-old leading only.

 

There is a guy running this on a 20B, I think he even had a video of startup and a sound file for running. His name is Jeff20B. He's on the nopistions.com and this forum. The engine is in a Old Mazda GLC (Talk about sleeper). He has pics of it. Let me look for it and I'll get back to you guys.

PS. He is only running Leading as it is a N/A 20B application.

Jacob

 

one of jeff20B's posts is where i originally got the idea for late leading rather than trailing. I know the engine will run on leading only, but I am big on efficiency, and trailing (or late leading) provides a second flame front that will decrease BSFC at least marginally, which is a fairly big deal to me.

the more efficient you can make an engine run, the less stress you are putting on the parts for the same amount of output, the less fuel you have to pump into it, hence less supporting mods and a cheaper gas bill, and the cleaner and smoother it will run. My goal on all my projects is to make the power I want with the least amount of fuel possible, and little things like a second spark that gives you 3 more horsepower and spools your turbo 400 rpm quicker are what makes the difference between a fast car and a really fast car, or at least IMHO.

anyway, im sure most people who read all my ranting already know all that, so i'll shut up.

the way I understood it, the people who are running late leading on a 20B are telling the ECU that it is a 12 cylinder, so that it fires each rotor at stndard, then at standard+180 degrees. They were doing this on an older version of the code tho AFAIK, so im not sure if it can still be done. I'll try to find a link to the post i saw that described it.

thanks
pat

 

https://www.rx7club.com/megasquirt-forum-153/ms-i-e-20b-484299/

theres the thread. i thought there was a real long thread with some stuff in it somewhere but i couldnt find it.

im not sure how much this would help with spool time, as the trailing is more optimally located and timed for that from what I understand, but I think it should help quite a bit from an efficency/unburnt HC standpoint, which is definately better than nothing.... ultimately I'd like to have both, which is what the stock ignition (13b anyway) does...

anyway, thanks for the help. It looks like a nice enough day to paint my engine bay one more coat today, so hopefully if i get my mounts, then very soon i'll have some results to post up for anyone who's interested.

pat

 

new question: does the vb921 chip sink enough current to run a stock trailing coil without the stock ignitor?

 

Sure, it current limits at 7.5A, which is virtually identical to the stock ignitor.

 

excellent!

thanks