HardHitter

iTrader: (4)

Ok, so as most of you know, I have a 94 RX-7 and I watned to put some bump in the trunk. I added eDi 6500i's and a Nine.2 amp and the car/sound was great from them. Then I decided to add a sub and I got two 10W7's and a Nine.2x. I was only able to fit a single 10 in the trunk, so I decided to put the other 10W7 for sale.

After installing the 10W7 and Nine.2x I loved the sound, but when I was driving my car, I definatly can feel the difference in weight that the sub/box adds so now I'm debating if I want to sell this 10W7 too.

My dilema is, I want something close to the output/sq of the W7 but will be able to fit in a smaller box (sealed) and will be able to be powered by 600W @ 4ohms.

I'm guessing the sub/box added close to 100lbs to the car, but I'm just wondering what other options I would have out there. Possibly even dropping down to an 8 if necessary.

Sparknotes: A 600W setup, small sealed box, close to same output/sq as W7.

purerx7

iTrader: (61)

Well first off, w7 is probably one of the heaviest subs out their! When you built the box, you should of made it removeable, so when you have that urge to drive, you can just take it out and off you go. I know you paid a lot of money for those w7's, especially if you payed retail, so selling those you might take a big hit. Also, making a box out of mdf/fiberglass will be alot lighter than a full mdf box.
bryan

chinaman

Hey, go single turbo!!

HardHitter

iTrader: (4)

Yeh, I'm going to be doing a fiberglass box this week and seeing how it is after that.

shepski

this is why i decided to opt for only 6"x9" and 6" splits in my SA, bugerall extra weight.
when i want audio i hop in my plymouth fury extended wagon, soon to recieve 2x 12" subs, 2x 6"x9" and 2 6" splits in the front. with amps to suit (havent decided yet)

KNONFS

iTrader: (14)

Try a pair of SAS Bazookas and report back

Corusco

I know it's a matter of personal preference for everybody, but bazooka tubes sound like ***.

Sorry to hear that your W7 didn't work out right for you, HH. If your FG enclosure doesn't work out right either, you might try an Alpine Type R in a small ported box. It's a lot lighter, doesn't require thick mdf walls for the enclosure (3/4" as opposed to 1" recommended for W7), and matches your power requirements. The shop I worked at last year ran a special for a huge lot (~30 pcs.) we recieved on these subs, and I was impressed every time I did an install with the amount of pump they had.

Also, be sure to reinforce your FG enclosure well for the W7. Although FG has a little more flex than MDF, it can still take a pounding. My friend and coworker (also an installer) has blown apart two boxes with his 12" W7. One was after a few months on an 800w amp, the other was after two days of having my 1600w Phoenix Gold hooked up.

FDNewbie

iTrader: (10)

ABSOLUTELY. They sound good if you've never really heard REAL bass from a sub But if you know the difference, there's NO comparison whatsoever.

Man...I've been saying this for YEARS now lol. Although I have a 12w6v2 myself (lol), my old 10" Alpine Type R was freakin amazing. Best bang for the buck. Just ask Gene (RX7Rage). He thought it was awesome, and that was before I tuned it for him. Then he was flabbergasted

I hear the new Alpine Type E and S are pretty good too...

~Ramy

Corusco

I haven't heard the new Type-E, but word on the street is that they are decent entry level subs...nothing amazing but worth $80. The old type E's had problems with dying prematurely...reportedly they have rectified this. I have always said that the S stands for Smooth. Very musical sub for a palty $120; I always recommended that for anyone that wanted something clean and wasn't ready to pony up the green for a W6 or 7.

FDNewbie

iTrader: (10)

So is the Type R the top of the line? Oh and mine wasn't even ported...

jic

iTrader: (1)

KaiFD3S

iTrader: (37)

I have been thinking about just stripping the car but who know's what I'll do...

Corusco

The Type-X is Alpine's high end consumer subwoofer, street price is typically in the $350 range. Good sounding sub, but if you are spending that much, I would either go with a W6 or a JBL GTi. The Type-R is one notch below the X.

Hope everyone doesn't mind this little hijack about Alpine gear.

blackangst

I personally have the Alpine R in a sealed box. Fits right behind my seats on top of the storage bins, and is removable. It hits HARD and is verrrry nice with jazz as well. I went with this for the same reason - JL are nice but need a monster of a box and are heavvvvy.

DamonB

That's why in the very beginning I built a simple enclosure with a single 10 incher. The entire enclosure, driver and amp mounted to it can't weigh over 30 pounds and it doesn't eat up the trunk space either.

You don't need 600 watts to be loud or have great sound quality, in fact you don't need near as much power as everyone will insist. 600 watts in the enclosed cabin of a car???? Crazy! When we had a mobile DJ in college we were shaking entire gymnasiums with 800 watts. Not merely playing loud, shaking. If that amp really put out 600 watts you'd be pulling 50+ amps through it's power cable...

FDNewbie

iTrader: (10)

Damon, I'm not trying to be nitpicky, but it's much easier to shake an entire gymnasium b/c there's a huge space, so the sound waves have lots of space to mature and even echo. The interior of the FD is so freaking small, you're essentially hearing the waves right out of the speaker. That's why I prefer quite a large enclosure to help the waves mature and generate that nice deep, crisp bass I'm looking for. Or at least that's how I understood it to work.

~Ramy

DamonB

I don't mean to be nitpicky but you have NO idea what you're talking about

Use some common sense. You're telling me it's easier to fill an entire friggin building with enough power to make it shake than to merely excite the interior of a small car? Riiiiiiiiiiiiight. Go check into the looney bin.

...and whomever told you this has NO idea what they are talking about either.

Plenty of people cling to this myth of the space has to be big enough to "hold" the wavelength of the sound etc. They're all stupid. The wavelength of 100 hz is already over 11 feet long. Know what? You can hear it just fine even if inside a closet or a car. If the description you gave above of power vs space were correct an iPod would need about 1000 watts in order for you to hear the entire frequency spectrum. To top it off if you insist the space needs to be able to "hold" the wavelength you wouldn't be able to hear anything below about 13,000 hz in your headphones since the speakers are only about an inch from your eardrums.

Looney. Looney. LOONEY!

Corusco

:

He's not totally off base...he's got the concept of length needed to allow a wave to mature, just applying it wrong. There is the problem in the car environment with reflection of waves which leads to cancellation or constructive interference. We still have to deal with waves losing energy over distance no matter how you work reflection or anything else.

I am wondering, though, how you got entire gyms to shake with 800w. I have a mobile DJ service as well, and I use 2500w split over three amps to do that. How many speakers were you running, positioning, etc? Hoping that I might learn...

FDNewbie

iTrader: (10)

Now now Damon... Try being nice once in a while....

DamonB

Waves do not mature! WTF is that??? Somebody somewhere is inventing new terms to describe things they don't understand. The wavefront is created at the speaker cone and from that point on it is constantly decaying. It has to; you can't magically add power to the wavefront after it's been created.

This is true of ANY environment, it's now somehow different in cars and it's not somehow harder or different to fix. What matters is the relative position of speaker and listener in the environment and that's why we always come back to placement, placement, placement. There is no way to fix an inherent placement (interference) problem other than to move the speaker or listener or use true digital DSP that allows altering of the phase response.

You CANNOT prevent waves from bouncing off surfaces unless you are inside an anechoic chamber (and you wouldn't want that anyway. If you've ever listened to anything inside an anechoic chamber it sounds like complete crap even though it measures well. Let that be a lesson to you). Wavefronts from different speakers interact with eachother the moment they meet, they don't have to "bounce" around first. You also CANNOT fix interference with any sort of equalization because the interference problem is fundamental to the phase domain and equalization only makes changes in the power domain.

DamonB

Everytime your teacher gave you an F in school it wasn't because they were mean or didn't like you, it's because you had no undestanding of the subject matter. It wasn't the teacher's fault.

FDNewbie

iTrader: (10)

Damon, what I was referring to was the theory behind bass tubes and/or large enclosures (again, as I understand it). The Bose bass tube is that long b/c the waves need distance to mature to give you that crisp bass. Is this wrong as well?

FDNewbie

iTrader: (10)

If I wrote a nice long essay about how I *thought* something worked, and it was completely off-base, yea I expect to fail. But if the teacher wrote a little note by it saying "nice try dumbass" or "what an idiot," I'd be liable to introduce his jaw to my right fist...

KNONFS

iTrader: (14)

Have you compared the 10 vs the 8, there is a big difference between the two.

DamonB

Anyone who uses the words "Bose" and "crisp bass" in the same sentence should be shot You cannot get something for free in audio either and there is no real technology involved in Bose systems, they just have better commercials. Bose systems are nothing more than (poorly) implemented ported and/or bandpass systems.

Yes. There is no such thing as waves "maturing". Waves merely travel through the medium and interact with their environement as they grow weaker in energy with time. They don't somehow reach a certain distance or a certain age and change. Enclosure size has everything to do with tuning a particular driver to a particular response and absolutely nothing else. The size of the enclosure is the result of the specs of a particular driver and has nothing to do with "big" or "small" sounding better or worse. If sound waves somehow needed to travel a certain distance and "mature" (again WTF is that? Who and claims this is needed and where are they?) before they were pleasing to the ear every pair of headphones on the planet would sound terrible. If you want to study wave propagation of low frequency speaker drivers do some research into transmission lines; they're chock full of their own problems. However, anything done poorly sounds far worse than anything done well and most drivers automatically favor different enclosure sizes and types.

If you really want to learn something buy Vance Dickason's and Joe D'Appolito's books on loudspeaker design and testing as they are the bibles. Follow that up with reading anything ever written by Linkwitz and Borbely as well as reading Audio Xpress.

If you think I'm crazy ask rynberg. My understanding is that he gets paid to know stuff like this.