speeddemon7

Ok so my car got fairly beat up by the hail storms up here in colorado.My aluminum hood received the most damage and the top of the car.Anyways I was looking at replacing my hood with a vis carbon fiber hood.I know they make a oem one,a knightsports replica,this other one called tha invader and also a scoot replica I believe.Anyways.Can I just hook it up to the hinges or do I have to also install hood pins and also the squirters for my windshiled? Any info on this would be greatly Appreciated.So far I like the stock oem replacement and also the invader one.The only thing about the invader that scares me is that theres vents right above where my blitz intakes sit.So during rainy weather this may cause some serious problems.Do these hoods come with mesh grills and rain gutters and if so how have they worked for you if you own a vis hood?

rynberg

Yes, you'll need to install your washer nozzles. Yes, you will need hood pins, for ANY aftermarket hood.

wReX

iTrader: (6)

They do come with mesh, but no rain gutters.

speeddemon7

I searched around the forums for some more info while waiting for replies and A few people mentioned that you can ask vis to install rain gutters if you specify it.I guess ill just have to call them up and see whats what.

alberto_mg

I have a Mazdaspeed replica hood and it uses stock-like latch. Not sure if it was molded on after it was bought or not, but its there.

ijneb

I want a scoot hood for less than a grand that has the tunnel from the ram scoop to the back of the hood!
Vis said their "fuzion" (scoot knock off) didnt have it. And at 629+ 125 shipping, it should!

At the last meet we went to, a gentlemen had a knockoff Knightsport hood without hood pins, and another had the scoot knockoff mentioned above, both said they didnt need hood pins, but the one with the scoot hood (who is on the forum as rajeevx7) used them because his hood was higher than his fenders, making it look goofy. The guy with the KS replica said he took his fenders off, and reinstalled them with a few washers under them to raise them slightly, looked great!
-Ben

EKTwin93

I have the VIS "KS" CF hood. Didn't come with any rain gutters though, but does have mesh. As far as hood pins, it latches down exactly like the stock hood so I don't have them, but they are a good idea. I just didn't want to drill holes into my brand new hood yet...

FDNewbie

iTrader: (10)

Listen to what Rynberg said. No offense to anyone...but you gotta be an IDIOT to run a CF hood w/o hood pins.

I need to make a short video of how high the CF hood floats above the fenders from the sides when I pick up speed. Ppl don't realize because the hood is so light how much flex it has to it.

I have the VIS Invader hood, and the stock latch works perfectly. The prob w/ it (and ANY other CF hood, no matter how expensive or cheap it is) is that w/ the increased air getting underneath the hood, it will continue to push up against the underside of the hood.

It is VERY possible for the air to push up enough to the point that the stock latch remains locked, but the CF around the latch breaks, and the hood flies up on you. That'll be real fun...

Put the hood pins if you've got any common sense. Yes, drilling into CF is not fun. But that's what professionals are for. Having a CF hood w/ no hood pins is like owning a car with no locks. Can you live with it? Sure. Is it smart? HELL no.

Scrapiron7

I have a RE N1 Carbon hood and wouldn't dream of not using pins with it. It weighs 9lbs compared to the stock 22lb hood. And for the money you spend on a hood, why not put the pins in to protect your investment?

Herblenny

iTrader: (13)

I guess I'm an idiot.. I have a FG Scoot replica..

My first vented hood was CF Faspac, had hood pins.. got rid of it because my pipings were hitting it.. My second and first scoot, I put the pins.. and then my friend painted his and we swapped. The hood looked so much better without the pins.. so I went out for a test drive.. on a Sunday morning around 10AM.

I wanted to test it and see if it vibrates.. so, kept increasing the speed as I watched the hood.... And passed the state trooper going about 125.. I was so glue to watching the hood, I didn't see the trooper until i was pretty much passing him.. I kept going, I hit around 160+.. got off at some shopping mall exit and parked my car.

Point I'm trying to make is, I think its ok.. especially with all the freaking vents.. You can't build up pressure underneath to pop the hood. Only issues I could see is the hinge.. I usually check for any cracks or what not.. If I do see any cracks.. I'll be re-inforcing it asap.

FDNewbie

iTrader: (10)

No Phil, your car's just slow...LOL

I can see what you're saying about the semi-hoods lol (the RE and Scoot hoods, which have more vents than hood material haha).

But believe me..most "traditional" hoods, vented or not, will have serious lift pushing up the hood.

Herblenny

iTrader: (13)

Ramy, you know you are my friend and all.. but I have to disagree with you.. It depends on so many things.. For instance.. i have a front mount, both my oil cooler vents have oil coolers. I have 99 undercarriage that pretty much seals the bottom. If I were to go over 100mph.. I don't get that much air flow into my engine area.. Its proven, because I barely able to cool my radiator..
During this summer, with my nice polished radiator cover, i'm over heating.. If your hood is having serious lift, than something is wrong.. Maybe too much air going thru from the front of the car?? This might sound kind of weird, but thats also not good.. I know a lot of people with aftermarket front end don't put their under carriage but it does have some purpose. Especially at high speed.. So, just having hood pins and going fast isn't the solution.. Hope my point is understood..

FDNewbie

iTrader: (10)

Phil, just cuz you're my friend doesn't mean you have to agree w/ everything I say...esp. since I love it when you're wrong...haha

Na, just kidding. You obviously have a point. I didn't know you have a FMIC? Heat soak is def. a prob w/ front mounts...as you've point out. So you're right, your setup definitely plays a role.

But I'm going to disagree w/ you about the undercarriage part. 1) No undertray would LESSEN the lift on the underside of the hood, since some of the air coming in through the nose of the car will exit right back out, underneath the car (which is aerodynamically bad, giving your entire front end lift). 2), I have an undertray, and I still see lots of play in my hood. I only have one large central vent (somewhat like the Mazdaspeed hood) so there's plenty of area for the air to exert lift on the underside of the hood. I still have the stock radiator, and the PFS SMIC...so everything is pretty much "stock" in that sense. Yes, the nose is C-west, so I am getting more air into the engine bay. So i'd say, as long as you don't have a FMIC and/or a hood w/ lots of large vents (RE, Scoot), I'd be willing to bet your hood will see significant play at high speeds, because w/ an undertray, and enlarged front opening, you're gonna get LOTS of air forced into the engine bay.

You agree w/ that?

Herblenny

iTrader: (13)

I might be wrong on this.. But my understand of undercarriage is to lessen turbulence between the car and road surface below. Hence with out it, air would be forced upward into the engine bay.. But I could be completely wrong about this..
But you do make valid points about where air might be travelling.. In my case, I have travelled abnormal speed and hood did not pop.. I'm happy with it.. But the pure number of vents do help in my case.. Like I said, it was my concern and tested before I decided not to..

94RHDFD

iTrader: (3)

You both have valid points but I think Phil is more right, the undercarriage's purpose is to smooth out air under the car to decrease lift on the front of the car, that being said not having it would increase lift under the front of the car which would cause more air to be forced into the engine bay thus placing upward force on the hood. Air going through the front bumper is also forced upward because more air flows under the car than through the bumper opening.

FDNewbie

iTrader: (10)

Well I don't see a difference between the two points...they go hand in hand.

The undertray has 2 functions:

1) keep air in the engine bay, helping force the air into the radiator, etc, thus enhancing cooling, rather than escaping right back underneath the car. So you DO want air forced up into the engine bay, just not air from underneath the car...only from the front/nose of the car. And you want that air to stay there, not escape back underneath, because that does cause lift, making the front end unstable at high speeds. Having a vented hood helps this, since the air enters through the nose, travels through the engine bay, some going to the IC & radiator, and the rest out the vent of the hood, carrying away w/ it heat from the engine bay. Believe it or not, that's the PRIMARY function of the undertray on the FD specifically. Why? Because...

2) The other function of undertrays is for aerodynamics (i.e. reducing turbulence)... yet this is not the case w/ the stock FD undertray.

To function as such, an undertray must be completely flat, to smooth out the air running underneath the car, eliminating turbulence. While the undertray is the perfect area to do this, a) the stock undertray is far from being completely flat, and b) the stock undertray should flow with loading ramps under the car, from about where the seats are. These tunnels need to comprise about 25% of the length of the car to be effective, and end in a complete flat area, inclined at about 17 degrees, such as in a rear diffuser.

Basically, the whole car from underneath needs to be sealed, completely flat, w/ loading ramps very near (but before) the center of pressure, running at least 1/4 of the length of the car, ending in an angled diffuser. I assure you that's what RE and Mazdaspeed run on their cars...that's why they have front undertrays (that you'll notice are completely flat), and rear diffusers.

So my point? While undertrays do provide cooling functions, decrease lift, and enhance aerodynamics, they only provide the first two of these functions on FDs, while the third requires some $$ and some fabbing to actually occur.

94RHDFD

iTrader: (3)

Like I sais you both have vaild points

Herblenny

iTrader: (13)

Ramy,

Let me ask you something.. Say you are going 100MPH, what is your guess of air speeding going into the front of the car?? To be clear, do you think engine bay is experiencing 100MPH air??

I'm not an expert.. but I think hoods such as Scoot or N1 you really don't need a hood pin.. But people should do what they like.. I'm not a fan of hood pins sticking out and ruining the smooth curves of FD.. And I'm mostly not going to track my car nor take it on 200MPH cruise.. If I did, I still think I wouldn't have problems..

94RHDFD

iTrader: (3)

Its just a personal choice, I don't care for them anymore either

rynberg

You have a Scoot hood and you're worried about a couple of subtle metal clips ruining the smooth curves of the FD?

Herblenny

iTrader: (13)

Thanks for pointing that out.. i was hoping someone wouldn't criticize me about scoot and the smooth curves.. But, You are ABSOLUTELY right!.. I guess I could see that it could ruin things.. I'm going to go ahead and put couple of subtle metal clips because I've already got a Scoot hood and ruin the lines.. Thanks again for pointing that out!

I think I have a silver set and a red set..

FDNewbie

iTrader: (10)

Phil, I have absolutely no idea. Simply said, I don't have enough knowledge to answer that question. But I will tell you this. With an undertray, a larger front opening (like my C-West front bumper) a SMIC (so no FMIC), there really aren't that many other options for the air to take. Some will go to the IC, others to the radiator. But the rest...I'd guess it's going full force into the engine bay. The way the center of my hood plays around while going at high speeds (80mph+) tells me there *must* be lots of air pushing up against it's underside.

Of course, when all is said and done, you're right, people do what they want to do. I should know that very well, since I get just as many boo's as ahh's about my car. But I still don't think it's *smart* to use a CF hood w/o pins. Again, like you said, and I agreed w/ you, the RE and Scoot hoods have such large vents, and many of them at that, that I'd think it would be nearly impossible for the air to generate any considerable force against the underside of the hood. So you're probably in the clear. But then again, I wouldn't feel comfortable taking the risk. Esp. since I (and most ppl) don't run Scoot or RE hoods.

I should also point out that you're talking to Mr. Paranoid. I had a custom reinforcement bar made, simpy because I did NOT like the idea of driving w/o one (since the stocker won't fit with the C-West bumper). Granted, the re-bar only works at front end impacts under 15mph, and otherwise it's useless, but still...I wanted to play it safe.

LOL! My bad Phil...I just thought that was a funny comment. But seriously though...don't lose sleep over my account. If you don't want the pins that badly, don't use 'em. If it's just about how they look, may I suggest grabbing some and just placing them on the hood, get a feel for how they look. There are quite a few diff designs, obvious ones like mine (the sparco pins) to the very subtle ones that Crispy runs (don't know the brands). Give it a shot, and I think you'd be surprised how little difference it makes to the look of the car. Hell, I actually like how my hood looks w/ the pins!

Herblenny

iTrader: (13)

Ramy, I'm not loosing sleep over this.. Just pointing out to those who are considering that its not necessary as what people say.. I think sometimes this forum is misleading because certain people make certain comments. I'm just pointing out my views and people could make their own opinions.. Look back and see that since I put my reason, not just saying its necessary.. You have writen on here your own reason why.. I think its more constructive this way..

Far as laying hood pins.. as I stated earlier, I initially had the pin on my first Scoot.. Drove around for 2-3 weeks with it (because I heard the same rumor about you need hood pins for safety and what not).. I'll post some pics tonight (w/pins)..
But when my buddy painted his and gave it to me.. I liked it with out it so, for that reason I went out and tested it.. As you and I both know, best way to see if it works or not is to go out and do a real road test.. Like I said earlier, I hit around 160MPH without any issue.. Which prove to me that pins aren't needed and my possible reasons why not.

Far as rynberg's comment.. I laughed too.. I think most will agree that scoot still hold more of a curvature than some pins sticking out.. but I could be wrong.. I think if you take identical hood, one with pins and one without, most could differentiate the two.. and could see the point that I was making..

FDNewbie

iTrader: (10)

Oh yea...you're right Phil...I forgot you had told me you used to have pins on your old one. My bad.

I feel what you're saying about simply putting out one's reasoning... that's exactly why I find the forum very constructive as well. In any case, keep up the good work (the 160mph runs hehe). I haven't gone on one myself in a few days...so I'm feeling the need...the need for speed hehe

~Ramy

PS...I haven't forgetten about the pic I'm supposed to scan and send you. I'm gettin around to it...promise!

Herblenny

iTrader: (13)

Ramy,

What pic was that?? I have forgotten about it also..