Looking for some damn fine auto paint primer by the gallon
06-11-03, 11:32 PM
#1
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Looking for some damn fine auto paint primer by the gallon
I'm looking for primer that I can buy by the gallon (that is to say, not a spray can, but something that can be loaded into a compressed air driven painter) to lay down the base for my paint on my FC.
I really don't know anything about autopaint, so maybe you guys know of a nice wholesale joint where I could get some really high quality primer.
It would be best if the primer was rust resistant, rust attacking, or something like that. And if the primer had some kind of body filler element as well, to accomidate knicks and dings. I really don't mind sanding between coats.
Basically, my plan here is to strip the car, and prime it myself. Then I will deliver it--without the seals so that they can be painted under before I put new ones in--to a pro paint shop to have it painted by them.
Any help?
I really don't know anything about autopaint, so maybe you guys know of a nice wholesale joint where I could get some really high quality primer.
It would be best if the primer was rust resistant, rust attacking, or something like that. And if the primer had some kind of body filler element as well, to accomidate knicks and dings. I really don't mind sanding between coats.
Basically, my plan here is to strip the car, and prime it myself. Then I will deliver it--without the seals so that they can be painted under before I put new ones in--to a pro paint shop to have it painted by them.
Any help?
06-11-03, 11:35 PM
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Ack, this just in from more extensive searching on my part: What are some good techniques for laying down primer? One post discusses laying down a coat, sanding, then putting on a layer of clear coat to "seal" the primer against the weather, and then to lay another primer layer down. Because otherwise the metal *will* rust despite having primer on it? Any takes on this?
06-13-03, 03:46 PM
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PPG DPLF
You can try PPG's DPLF Epoxy Primer. It is expensive but, it works really well. It is also available in a few different colors for easier topcoat hiding. It adheres to bare metal very well and has good corrosion resistance, also if you reduce it a bit it can be used as a sealer over sanded factory finishes. This primer however is not designed to be sanded. I have sanded it in the past but, If you are looking for a primer surfacer to fill small imperfections, PPG makes a primer surfacer as well, I think it is called DCP21. If you are looking for cheaper stuff you could try PCL (Pacific Coast Laquer) they make a variety of Primers. I have used PCL products in the past with good results.
Good luck.
Sharmack
Good luck.
Sharmack
06-13-03, 07:32 PM
#6
DuPont URO primer, by far the best I have seen, you can mix it 2 ways, one as a primer sealer, and one as primer filler. I have it on my car and it has shrunk ZERO, paint doesnt chip off it, super stuff, I have used epoxy primers, and I am in no way equally impressed as the DuPont URO prime.
Dont strip the paint to bare metal unless you have a paint problem like cracking or checking paint, rust, **** like that, otherwise you are doing more harm then good.
If you strip to bare metal you will have to use a self etching metal primer, like DuPont VariPrime, then URO over that.
Dont strip the paint to bare metal unless you have a paint problem like cracking or checking paint, rust, **** like that, otherwise you are doing more harm then good.
If you strip to bare metal you will have to use a self etching metal primer, like DuPont VariPrime, then URO over that.
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06-14-03, 03:38 AM
#9
Is SEM self-etching primer OK to use under another brand's primer, or should I definitely stick to one brand/family of paints? I ordered a few SEM aerosol cans to do parts that I sanded down to bare metal, along with the fiberglass sideskirts, wing, etc.
Also, the color of the primer will effect the final shade of paint, correct? I am doing silver, but want it on the darker side - so I should use black primer?
TIA!
Also, the color of the primer will effect the final shade of paint, correct? I am doing silver, but want it on the darker side - so I should use black primer?
TIA!
06-14-03, 02:20 PM
#10
Also, if my body is good enough where I don't need a filler/primer, can I spray my base coat over self etching primer? Should I do a primer/sealer anyways?
Slightly off topic - out of curiosity,what is a 'high solids' base coat, and what makes this better then a 'low solids' BC?
Anybody have experience with Color-Rite paint? They are the OEM supplier for Yamaha Liquid Silver, which I will be doing. 3 quarts of the BC good enough to do an entire FD?
Will flex agent added to the BC effect the color?
Finally, should I stick with a Color-Rite clear, or is there another brand/family that will work better? TIA!
Slightly off topic - out of curiosity,what is a 'high solids' base coat, and what makes this better then a 'low solids' BC?
Anybody have experience with Color-Rite paint? They are the OEM supplier for Yamaha Liquid Silver, which I will be doing. 3 quarts of the BC good enough to do an entire FD?
Will flex agent added to the BC effect the color?
Finally, should I stick with a Color-Rite clear, or is there another brand/family that will work better? TIA!
06-14-03, 03:49 PM
#11
not sure if all the questions are directed at me, so here goes:
-get the stuff in a local auto body supply place, check your yellow pages.
-costs about $200 for a gallon kit that makes more then one gallon, hard to say because we buy it at 5% over cost and I dont do the buying, lol.
-clear coat is for use over paint, not primers.
-I always prefer to stick to one brand, but that SEM stuff may not be terrible for small areas, if they are large areas go with something out of a gun not a can.
-fiberglass parts need no self etching primer, they should get urethane or epoxy primers. Self etching primer is for bare metals.
-color of primer will not effect paint, but the closer the primer is to the paint the less paint it takes to cover the primer. Too much primer and too much paint is not good as it tends to chip easy and may crack over time.
-pick a darker shade of silver if thats what you want, there is thousands of shades of paints, pick what you want, its best to see it on a car, a 1" color sample is not going to look the same on the car as it does in the book.
-no matter how good you think your body work is, it could always be better, even "brand new" panels sometimes have a tiny dimple in them from shipping, once you paint your done, at least with the primer, and more importantly sanding the primer after its dry, you can achieve the highest quality finish. Besides, the good primer will allow the part to age better being as its now metal and filler.
-high solids means it takes less coats to cover, there is more pigment, it can come in handy for hard to spray things, as well as mettalics, but it also tends to be a bit "muddier" out of the gun.
-3qts of that base will probably yield 6 qts, usually base is reduced 1:1, although if they are selling it as 3 qts, it may quite possibly be 3:1, which means it will yield one full gallon ready to spray.
-flex does tend to change the color, ask any body shop, they dont like to admit it, but it does. Spraying mettalics in thier natural position is crutial for bumpers to match, alot of shops hang bumpers on bumper stands and tilt them or spray them upside down so any dirt lands on what will be the bottom of the bumper. Single stage mettalics will not match at all unless the parts are sprayed in thier natural position. Too many painters arent "old school" and dont know all the tricks.
-you can techincally go with any clear over base, its good to stick to the same brand, you can get that color you want in any brand of paint though, no need to use that brand, its not one of the better ones out there.
-get the stuff in a local auto body supply place, check your yellow pages.
-costs about $200 for a gallon kit that makes more then one gallon, hard to say because we buy it at 5% over cost and I dont do the buying, lol.
-clear coat is for use over paint, not primers.
-I always prefer to stick to one brand, but that SEM stuff may not be terrible for small areas, if they are large areas go with something out of a gun not a can.
-fiberglass parts need no self etching primer, they should get urethane or epoxy primers. Self etching primer is for bare metals.
-color of primer will not effect paint, but the closer the primer is to the paint the less paint it takes to cover the primer. Too much primer and too much paint is not good as it tends to chip easy and may crack over time.
-pick a darker shade of silver if thats what you want, there is thousands of shades of paints, pick what you want, its best to see it on a car, a 1" color sample is not going to look the same on the car as it does in the book.
-no matter how good you think your body work is, it could always be better, even "brand new" panels sometimes have a tiny dimple in them from shipping, once you paint your done, at least with the primer, and more importantly sanding the primer after its dry, you can achieve the highest quality finish. Besides, the good primer will allow the part to age better being as its now metal and filler.
-high solids means it takes less coats to cover, there is more pigment, it can come in handy for hard to spray things, as well as mettalics, but it also tends to be a bit "muddier" out of the gun.
-3qts of that base will probably yield 6 qts, usually base is reduced 1:1, although if they are selling it as 3 qts, it may quite possibly be 3:1, which means it will yield one full gallon ready to spray.
-flex does tend to change the color, ask any body shop, they dont like to admit it, but it does. Spraying mettalics in thier natural position is crutial for bumpers to match, alot of shops hang bumpers on bumper stands and tilt them or spray them upside down so any dirt lands on what will be the bottom of the bumper. Single stage mettalics will not match at all unless the parts are sprayed in thier natural position. Too many painters arent "old school" and dont know all the tricks.
-you can techincally go with any clear over base, its good to stick to the same brand, you can get that color you want in any brand of paint though, no need to use that brand, its not one of the better ones out there.
06-14-03, 07:42 PM
#12
Thanks for the wealth of info Rob!
So do you think a total yield of 6 quarts of base coat should cover an entire FD? I have not checked with Color-Rite to see how much their base needs to be reduced. They sell by individual quarts.
Does the atmospheric conditions affect how much it should be reduced? We have high humidity in the Houston area, typically around 90%.
I know the base coat and clear coat typically have to be sprayed within a specific time of each other, but is it ok to do the primer first and the BC/CC at a latter date (like within two weeks)?
Lastly, I had bought a few aerosol cans of the Color-Rite Liquid Silver base coat and clear to do the corners and engine bay. This was more for convenience then anything else - I wanted to save booth time for just the main job (not for money issues, but just less to think about and do while I'm there). Should I just scrap this idea and do it all at the booth?
Thanks!
So do you think a total yield of 6 quarts of base coat should cover an entire FD? I have not checked with Color-Rite to see how much their base needs to be reduced. They sell by individual quarts.
Does the atmospheric conditions affect how much it should be reduced? We have high humidity in the Houston area, typically around 90%.
I know the base coat and clear coat typically have to be sprayed within a specific time of each other, but is it ok to do the primer first and the BC/CC at a latter date (like within two weeks)?
Lastly, I had bought a few aerosol cans of the Color-Rite Liquid Silver base coat and clear to do the corners and engine bay. This was more for convenience then anything else - I wanted to save booth time for just the main job (not for money issues, but just less to think about and do while I'm there). Should I just scrap this idea and do it all at the booth?
Thanks!
06-14-03, 07:51 PM
#13
Originally posted by Rob XX 7
-flex does tend to change the color, ask any body shop, they dont like to admit it, but it does. Spraying mettalics in thier natural position is crutial for bumpers to match, alot of shops hang bumpers on bumper stands and tilt them or spray them upside down so any dirt lands on what will be the bottom of the bumper. Single stage mettalics will not match at all unless the parts are sprayed in thier natural position. Too many painters arent "old school" and dont know all the tricks.
-flex does tend to change the color, ask any body shop, they dont like to admit it, but it does. Spraying mettalics in thier natural position is crutial for bumpers to match, alot of shops hang bumpers on bumper stands and tilt them or spray them upside down so any dirt lands on what will be the bottom of the bumper. Single stage mettalics will not match at all unless the parts are sprayed in thier natural position. Too many painters arent "old school" and dont know all the tricks.
Is there a fixed amount of flex that has to added (in a certain ratio), or can I add less (or will this not make a difference?)
Also, does the clearcoat need flex as well, and if so - the same as used in the BC?
TIA!
Last edited by dclin; 06-14-03 at 07:57 PM.
06-15-03, 08:12 PM
#14
there are different reducers depending on the temp and
conditions, usually fast, or low, mid temp, and high temp- or slow.
Im saying to paint the bumper in its natural position. You can paint it off the car, just make sure its set up in a way so its sitting like it does when its on the car.
You should do primer, let it dry, then wet sand the car flat, then paint it. You can let the primer sit as long as you want. You should spray the BC/CC close to each other, I cant see a reason to wait anyhow? The car will be masked off, and the surface clean, why wait?
Do what you want in the booth, personally I like spraying with a gun versus cans.
GOOD clears have a decent amount of flex built in to then, I only use a certain clear coat on bumpers for this reason. The main thing that ends up cracking on bumpers is old body work and primers. Bumpers require special primers, I dont flex BC because I make sure the bumper is prepared right and I use a good clear that is flexible and VERY durable for the bumpers.
conditions, usually fast, or low, mid temp, and high temp- or slow.
Im saying to paint the bumper in its natural position. You can paint it off the car, just make sure its set up in a way so its sitting like it does when its on the car.
You should do primer, let it dry, then wet sand the car flat, then paint it. You can let the primer sit as long as you want. You should spray the BC/CC close to each other, I cant see a reason to wait anyhow? The car will be masked off, and the surface clean, why wait?
Do what you want in the booth, personally I like spraying with a gun versus cans.
GOOD clears have a decent amount of flex built in to then, I only use a certain clear coat on bumpers for this reason. The main thing that ends up cracking on bumpers is old body work and primers. Bumpers require special primers, I dont flex BC because I make sure the bumper is prepared right and I use a good clear that is flexible and VERY durable for the bumpers.
06-15-03, 11:14 PM
#15
Originally posted by Rob XX 7
You should do primer, let it dry, then wet sand the car flat, then paint it. You can let the primer sit as long as you want. You should spray the BC/CC close to each other, I cant see a reason to wait anyhow? The car will be masked off, and the surface clean, why wait?
You should do primer, let it dry, then wet sand the car flat, then paint it. You can let the primer sit as long as you want. You should spray the BC/CC close to each other, I cant see a reason to wait anyhow? The car will be masked off, and the surface clean, why wait?
No, just may need time between doing the primer at another *cough* 'paint booth' and doing the BC/CC at a shop booth I'll be renting. I'll likely just do it all in one day as you suggest.
Originally posted by Rob XX 7
Do what you want in the booth, personally I like spraying with a gun versus cans.
[/B]
Do what you want in the booth, personally I like spraying with a gun versus cans.
[/B]
Curious if there is a real difference between the aerosol can version and the mix-it-yourself version, but I guess this is a question I should be asking the manufacturer, Color-Rite. My friend has done a little painting in the past, and I will be using his equipment. Being as that he lives 40 minutes away though, I also figured I get as much as I can out of the way now.
Originally posted by Rob XX 7
GOOD clears have a decent amount of flex built in to then, I only use a certain clear coat on bumpers for this reason. The main thing that ends up cracking on bumpers is old body work and primers. Bumpers require special primers, I dont flex BC because I make sure the bumper is prepared right and I use a good clear that is flexible and VERY durable for the bumpers. [/B]
GOOD clears have a decent amount of flex built in to then, I only use a certain clear coat on bumpers for this reason. The main thing that ends up cracking on bumpers is old body work and primers. Bumpers require special primers, I dont flex BC because I make sure the bumper is prepared right and I use a good clear that is flexible and VERY durable for the bumpers. [/B]
That and looking around at various resources should get me going in the right direction. Thanks again for your help!
Last edited by dclin; 06-15-03 at 11:16 PM.
06-15-03, 11:21 PM
#16
FYI, for anybody looking for the same paint used on the '02/03 Yamaha R1s, here is a link to the Color-Rite site and Yamaha Liquid Silver paint:
http://www.color-rite.com/store.cfm?&DID=49
11oz aerosols are $30, and the quarts are $134. I'll stop by the supply shop tomorrow to see if there is any alternatives for the same color from a different manufacturer.
http://www.color-rite.com/store.cfm?&DID=49
11oz aerosols are $30, and the quarts are $134. I'll stop by the supply shop tomorrow to see if there is any alternatives for the same color from a different manufacturer.
06-18-03, 01:02 AM
#18
Originally posted by Rob XX 7
well, anything in a spray can relies on air to dry, it has no converter or catalyst. I prefer paints that use a chemical cure, it is a true cure and lasts longer and tends to be much more durable.
I only use DuPont Imron clear on bumpers.
well, anything in a spray can relies on air to dry, it has no converter or catalyst. I prefer paints that use a chemical cure, it is a true cure and lasts longer and tends to be much more durable.
I only use DuPont Imron clear on bumpers.
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