deft_spyder

For me, I'll stick to a direct bolt on, low cost, solidly engineered product that uses the stock vehicle. That's the one I want to market.

I'm not trying to make someone buy a body kit, change their doors, and spend 10 grand. Feel free to sweep up that market though

Your 2 inch latch mention doesn't take into consideration at all that your car has an A-pillar. Unless you are moving it, the latch issue is moot.

"I know I don't want some guy coming up to me saying "Those are cool, I got ones just like it on my Honda." --- I guess that's sorta the opposite of this guy the other day... a guy working at a store that only saw my car from the front through a store window, and when I came in asked if my car was a lamborghini.

evot23

iTrader: (17)

Anyone who mistakes a 3000GT for a lamborghini just cause of the doors doesn't count much in my book.

I tend to like the door kit, whether its on a honda or mitsu or whatever, just a different look and the cars I've seen it on are show cars for the most part, cars not intended for the serious street ride but for the judges.

Would I get the doors on my car...don't know, I'd have to see it in person for myself. Maybe I'll have to give Jay a call.

I look forward to seeing the kit Deft, before that I'll keep an open mind about them.

JSpecRZ

let us know when you do... and take lots of pics..

Mahjik

iTrader: (1)

RE can do the doors without the widebody kit. If you look at the blue FD in this thread, it's NOT a widebody kit. However, it appears to have the doors replaced with something not OEM (maybe CF doors).

DCrosby

I'm sorry to hear that... maybe one of the importers JT or Rotartyextreme, can set us all up with a true scissor door kit

Zyon13B

Its not a kit to import.

JonesersRX7

Too frigin' heavy for me but hey...... if you are in to makin' show cars....

http://importprecision.com/vls_gallery_rx7.htm

Rexmanwolf

hey do any of you trust the information given or sold on ebay for Rx7s to do the Lambo Style door? Because i Have a vert and i think it will look so BadAss with Lambo door but don't have the money to throw 3to 4 gs on it. So does anyone know a cheaper way or something?

deft_spyder

the directions on ebay point you towards using truck hinges, tailgate hinges, etc.

the guys steals pictures from my site, covers up the watermark, and then says he did it... I wouldn't trust him. I'd rather sue him

DCrosby

You need some sort of "hardware" kit, and from what I've seen most "American" Distributors take what people have designed in Japan, and Make it work for our cars.... so I'd say Import the kit figure out how it works, and duplicate the heck out of it

-DC

Fumanchu

Deft_spyder already said that the kit hardly adds any weight.

fd3s93

not my cup of tea.. but its how you view your car as..some view their car for looks ..(show) so these doors might appeal to them but as for most peeps in the forum (i think) see their car as a race car.. diff strokes for dif folks? plus it be boring if every 7 looked the same.

deft_spyder

Just an update. The RX7 VLS just went into production. As the RX7 has to be one of my favorite cars, I'm really excited about it. A bunch of people have posted the link to our gallery, but here it is:

http://www.importprecision.com/vls_gallery_rx7.htm

It should be available in late january, early february. This kit is designed specifically for the RX7. You are NOT getting a modified kit for another car. This is designed especially for the RX7.

There's pics of the beta car on our site, importprecision.com. The price will still be close to $1500.00.

Maybe some of you guys saw the VLS kit at SEMA this year.... our gallery car is Jays RX7, that has won over 16 best of shows in a row now. It's now painted orange, as it was at SEMA (the black is no more).

I'm really happy with how well this kit is working. I know it won't please the guys looking for the 10 grand RE system, but for the people who would like to install this kit in their garage on a saturday with no welding, cutting, etc, I think they will be very happy. We've already pre-sold 25 of the kits to Japan from their impression of the kit at SEMA, and I hope you will all be impressed as well.

As always, I'm here for questions.

blueskaterboy

hmmm... i think that there are people that would buy your kit but as everyone has told you, MORE people would buy one that goes straight up even for a higher price.

damian

iTrader: (2)

hey deft_spyder, can you tell me if your system is similar to this system:

http://verticaldoors.com/v2/shopexd.asp?id=37

It seems like both ur systems are bolt on but I am not sure what differes from there.


also, what is the weight of the system? (sorry if you answered this already somewhere in the thread)

deft_spyder

I've seen some verticaldoors.com kits. They are bsically just like the decah kit. Matter of fact, decah has told me they are suing verticaldoors for infringement.

As you can see, the door is left in front of the passenger compartment, and I know it doesnt open both ways.

damian

iTrader: (2)

ahh , good clarification , thanks.
I'm definetly interested for my street car.

deft_spyder

i missed that you asked about weight... both sides together are about 30 pounds... this a very strong, as some people have put "overbuilt" kit that will definitely be able to hold your doors up securely.

damian

iTrader: (2)

thanks. ... like the dvd preview video by the way, showed how it works pretty well, the motion was a lot smoother than i though.

evot23

iTrader: (17)

Let us know when they'll be ready!

FDNewbie

iTrader: (10)

Ok...I guess now is as good as time as ever...so here goes

First, I wanna clarify somethin (since credibility is everything). I had posted a *while* back on the decah doors...and how they were the best. I'm not contradicting what I said...the decah kit *was* the best available at the time (as compared to autolock, the ebay stuff, etc) And I've had SEVERAL months' experience w/ the decah doors now on my friend's celica, and as the pioneers for a bolt on kit, I gotta say, it's not bad at all. But as expl0d once said, the doors *do* eventually sag. The shocks on them are no where nearly strong enough to withstand the wear and tear, as well as the sheer weight of the doors...my friend had to have his doors adjusted a cpl times already, and had to replace the shocks. that, and the hinge system itself is somewhat fragile...if it's not opened in the proper way, it'll mess up the hinge pretty bad. so would I get those on my FD, absolutely not. so onto the next....

A cpl of people have asked about the door kit from verticaldoors.com I also have a lot of experience w/ those doors, because I actually have them on my FD (ill get into that in a sec) but I chose to be smart this time and wait till the entire scene unfolds, see who exactly is making what kit, the pros and cons for each, then make my decision to get one, get some experience w/ it, THEN talk about it. didnt wanna jump the gun like i did w/ the decah kit

now, keeping in mind that im not affiliated w/ decah, verticaldoors.com, or importprecision.com (which imma just call VLS from now on), i think there are a cpl important facts that have been left out of these threads that need light shed onto them before any fellow FD owners go and purchase anything

-the VLS kit is very nice indeed...but the whole opening like stock and vertically mechanism that is interchangeable via a simple latch screams "prone to failure" or "weak spot" in my mind. this isn't an accusation, just a major concern I'd hope deftspyder can clarify...cuz if you see the actual hinge system for yourself (any hinge system for that matter), you'll see how the more motion it allows, the more fragile it is, making it more prone to failure. coupled w/ that is my concern on how the door can be opened vertically at a variety of angles based on a setting, which is a feature of the VLS kit....again, i see that as a great design for show, but in practical everday use, that must leave a major point of vulnerability (laws of physics: greater flexibility comes only at the expense of being more fragile. think of your sholder joint. you can move it all sorts of directions...it's VERY flexible. but that's also why it's so easy to disclocate, vs. say your elbow, where it's only a single pivot motion in one plane)

-the verticaldoors.com kit has some major advantages in my opinion....first, the doors go up by themselves. that's right...you dont open out then push up. the decah and VLS kits must be *pushed up* are as such since the shocks initially aren't strong enough to raise the doors..they must be assisted by you pushing them up. that again is a point of vulnerability...because w/ use, it's those shocks that will go bad. the less you help, the more they work, the more likely they'll fail (causing the sag you heard about from decah). the verticaldoors.com kit has incredibly strong shocks and a hinge system that once you push the door outward, the shocks take over and lift the door all the way up. (that's actually a major point that had me sold) that, and (2) the doors open as close to straight up as is physically possible. my own opinion is i dont like the VLS doors opening out so wide...they look like the car's got wings. i like the doors to go practically straight up, only slighly angled out, giving the car a swept-back look...

-the other major point (and in fact is the biggest point) of why i got the verticaldoors.com kit over the VLS is issues closing the door. here's the deal. all these kits use the stock door securing lock mechanism. this is VERY important for 2 reasons: 1) it's soo much cheaper for us, the customers, since changing that in any way would be a MAJOR financial endeavor (deftspyder has already mentioned that) and 2) it's a safety inspection issue. in many places in the US (if not all), messing w/ the stock locking/securing mechanism of the doors will not allow you to pass the safety inspection, not to mention having the door function in a totally diff way by not opening outward at all would present a major issue w/ the DMV and insurance, who would all say the door wasn't crash tested in that manner. sure, it sits the same way as stock when closed, but since you fiddled w/ the closing/locking mechanism, they have a fair claim (or at least arguable)... (ive actually spoken w/ them about this, and they claim that it could be prone to failure or could cause the door to open prematurely in a crash etc...all speculation, which the only way to prove otherwise would be to crash test several units modified in the same way lol....so yea..stock locking mechanism it is)

so back to my point...like I said earlier..i waited a while to buy, install, play w/, and THEN talk about this lambo door thing because i wanted to make sure the next time i said anything it wasn't me jumping the gun. and thank God, cuz it payed off.

i'm obviously working on building a show car (side note: it's not all show and no go...she'll see track time as well believe it or not). so naturally, i have a couple of agreements and understandings w/ diff vendors/shops...and they know about me getting the vertical doors. after SEMA, they all were blowin up my celly, cuz it turns out I had the only perfectly functioning vertical door kit. what do i mean? the car at SEMA w/ VLS, as well as the decah cars (pretty much all vertical door FDs up to this point) have had major problems getting the doors to consistantly (and i stress CONSISTANTLY) close properly. the doors will come down, and as you push them inward to lock, they won't line up perfectly on the door lock mechanism. this was verified MANY TIMES by many MANY diff shops and vendors of RX7 products...and since the ones I had an agreement w/ knew my kit shuts perfectly, everyone wanted to know which kit it was, and how i got it to close properly...

to make a long story short, the guy working on my car (body work and the doors) is one of the BEST body guys period. Crispy on the forum can easily testify to this...cuz he's had first hand expeirence w/ this shop too. in fact, it's the only shop that PFS dealt w/ for about a decade...many dealerships work w/, and even Pettit knows this guy and vouches for him. so it's obvious his work is above par, and then some (for you DC area guys, the shop is called Mr Spoiler, it's in Manassas, VA...ask for Dan. the website is mrspoiler.com. you'll see many cars on his site that won awards in shows and were featured in magazines, including two RX7s)

I got the verticaldoors.com kit, and he put it on my car, but it wasn't "perfect enough" for him haha... so basically he actually made a template of how it should be, sent it back, verticaldoors.com modified it, using my template, Dan modified it some more, sent it back, and then i finally got the new (and final) kit that I now have. Dan didn't mind this, since he knows the guy from veticaldoors.com, they're old buds... plus Dan only uses the best materials and what not, and he was very impressed w/ the verticaldoors.com hinges (as was i). in the meantime, only one other FD got the final modified door kit (that came off my car), and that's the FD that's practically all carbon fiber...i forget who's car it is...i think it was at a cpl shows, mita been SEMA, but I can't remember right now) but he's runnin the verticaldoors.com kit, and he's got the only other FD w/ perfectly closing doors, CONSISTANTLY. this was also verified by diff shops and vendors.

the ONLY drawbacks to the verticaldoors.com kit (gotta be fair here) is that you can't open them stock like the VLS kit, but I can deal w/ that, granted my FD isn't a daily driver, and I dont like the point of vulnerability... The other drawback is because the shocks are so strong, it does take some effort to close the doors..more than say the VLS or decah. but to me, i dont mind that one bit, because the stiffer the doors are, the more stable and hence "durable" i guess you can say the doors are. (again, flexibility vs. strength)

given all this, that's the reason why the verticaldoors.com kit is a lil more expensive, since it's a very strong, stable kit, the only one that raises the door itself, and that lines up properly to close correctly, CONSISTANTLY. hence, why I went w/ that kit. you only get what you pay for...

PS...deftspyder, straight up, i didnt write anything in a manner to purposefully offend you or diss your product. rather, this was my honest opinon and observation, which I'm entitled to, just as you are of yours. If I was wrong about anything, please feel free to correct me. I think we're all looking for the same thing here. Oh and just for the record, the reason why decah isn't and CANT sue verticaldoors.com is because the guy from verticaldoors.com basically bought a decah kit, looked at it, said "this is garbage" but understood the mechanism decah was using..cuz remember, decah was the pioneer of this. verticaldoors.com improved on the idea, modified it a lot to work specifically for the FD, and made improvements, such as including grease fittings which decah doesn't include (hence the need to lubricate and adjust the doors often on the decah kits), better material, stronger shocks and hinges, the doors lifting by themselves, etc. There's nothing at all wrong w/ doing that. In fact, that's how business is conducted every day. Example: we all love Chuck of RotaryExtreme, who aside from the stuff he makes himself, he takes original body kits, replicates them, but his are even higher quality!

before anyone asks...i dont have pics yet. i will very soon. my car's in the shop for some final touches on the body work....and once it comes (in about a week or so) ill post some pics. anyone in the DC area who wants to get a first-hand look at it, you're more than welcome to

PPS: sorry for such a long post...but I hope you guys find it worthwhile and that it helps some

damian

iTrader: (2)

excellent post FDNewbie!!!!
this is exaclty what i like to see, good solid opinions on actual experience so that I can make my own educated decision on what kit to get. You did a great job of pointing out pros/cons of each kit.

one question for you, the closing movement is the same for all kits right? they all swing down to normal level, then have to swing in to close... given that... how far does the door stick out on your kit when its all the way down but furthest away from the car, right before swinging in to close?

RX7-2JOCK

FDNewbi Awesome post bro. I think because of your post I'm going to go with Verticledoors.com's kit, you really pin-pointed all of the important facts that needed to be said. One question, Since your mechanic sent verticledoors.com the "better template", is verticledoors.com now using that same template for all of their RX7 door kits?

FDNewbie

iTrader: (10)

Thanx man...now I feel all that time typin away wasn't for nothin haha

The initial opening & closing for all the kits is pretty much the same, since they all face the same obstacle: clearing the fender, and clearing the A-pillar.

Since my shocks are so strong, I *can* literally unlock the door, open the door handle so the door is released from the jam, and let it go up from that point, (like an inch away from the car), since it lifts itself. but here's the catch...as it rises, it MUST go outward, since if it doesn't, it'll catch the fender (you have to see this to really get a feel for what I'm saying) and the A-pillar.

Theoretically speaking, the VLS kit should be able to accomplish the same (unless their hinge has a lockout preventing the vertical movement until the door opens outward a certain amount...which I highly doubt). But the practical reason why you won't be able to do this w/ the VLS is because you won't have enough room to generate enough strength/leverage in your hand muscles to raise the door when it's so close to your body...you must extend your hand to do that (due to the position of your wrist when raising the door) .... btw... can you tell I'm very clinically/anatomically oriented? haha

now for real world experience, all kits will be opening approx. 6 inches outward, then lifting upward.

Trust me, this is GOOD. because a) you wont make a mistake and rub your fender (cuz remember no cutting of the fender is required...so you still gotta clear the fender) and b) if you're like me, and may end up taking the car to places where unwanted attention is not good, you will very much wanna *sqeeze* through the small 6 inch opening w/o having to raise the door vertically... FDs attract enough undue attention as it is. get caught in the wrong area w/ lambo doors, and you mite as well give them the keys lol

i guess that's a potential strength of the VLS, where you can have it set to open like stock. but then again, i dont believe it's a simple 2 second switch and you're game. it's prob a lil more involved (a cpl minutes) in which case you must have already anticipated going into a bad area and had switched the doors to stock opening position before you went there...cuz otherwise, the switch is useless in that respect...

oh and 6 inches is pretty damn small. when i try to sqeeze outta that area, my back rubs against the roof, and my ribs rub against the door lol. now imagine trying to do that wearing a puffy jacket or somethin haha

FDNewbie

iTrader: (10)

Again...thanx. I'm glad it's helping... But most of all I'm glad my being the guinea pig didnt turn sour on me haha. I guess patience is it's own virtue.

As for the template, YES...vertical doors is now using the template from my car. The other FD has the template off my car as well...so dont worry, you're not gettin the original one haha.

While verticaldoors.com made the kit, Dan made all the necessary adjustments go make it perfect (and trust me...it took a good long time and hours upon hours of work). Dan is cool w/ this because he and the guy from VerticalDoors.com are buddies from back in the day...and Dan has distributorship for the kit as well. So it works out nicely for the both of them.

Oh and RX7-2JOCK...don't jump the gun just yet. Lets wait for DeftSpyder to reply...cuz for all you know, I can be totally full of it, or even simply dead wrong on some points...

but then again...im pretty damn sure lol...but we'll c

BTW...remember seeing the ad w/ this car in it? that's verticaldoors.com's...
when i saw that...i was like DAMN. THAT'S the swept back look I'm talkin about...