Bob H

iTrader: (10)

I posted this on the v8rx7fourm and wanted better coverage, so here it is as well.

Well,
I was sick and tired of reading many threads on aftermarket seats to see if they would work for me. I saw too many comments such as:
"I'm 6'3" and fit fine"
or
"I'm 6'0" and barely fit if I recline my seat".
Bottom line - we all have different sitting heights - and different sitting preferences. Some like to sit straight up, others reclined.
So I started measuring to find the best seat for headroom for my sunroof car. In the end, I found that NO seat will work for my sitting height - I have to go to a non-sunroof car.
But on to my measurements.
I started with the stock seat - and encourage those with aftermarket seats to measure theirs and post the results. First, I need to say how I measured, so we are all measuring the same.
For the stock seat here is how I measured:

1)Seat position - all the way back,(last detent on adjuster).
2)Incline - pull the handle, then push the seat back to the first click. Yes, this is more "upright" than most of us sit, but it gives a fair/consistent comparison.
3)From the center of the seat - at the rear most sewn seam - basically the lowest point of the seat.

I then measured with the seat removed. I used the mounting points on the inside nearest the trans. tunnel, in the rear. I then measured with the stock seat rail in the same positions to see how much it ate up.
Hopefully, with these measurements and some of you putting in your aftermarket seat measurements, we can get a real idea of just how much headroom there is to have with various combinations of aftermarket seats/rails. I.E., does the Lowmax/bride rails actually put the cushion at the lowest point?
So enough prep - on with the measurements/pictures. BTW, if there was any question on how much, I rounded down the measurement. For example, if it looked like it could be 36 1/2", but could also be 1/4", I put 1/4". Basically the last full 1/4" measurement before it bent past 45 degrees on the tape measure.

If you post your measurements, please put the car info as well.
Car info: 1993 Silver,(cause that matters...), w/red interior touring,(i.e. sunroof). Stock seats, stock rails, stock everything.


Seat in the furthest aft position, first detent on incline.

Center rear of seat up angle of seat to roof - 36 1/4"
Center rear of seat to roof portion just behind sunroof - 35 1/2"
Center rear of seat to rear most portion of sunroof - 36 1/2"
Bottom line - just under 36" of headroom in a stock seat with a sunroof.

Now, with seat removed:
I measured from the rear mounting point because that most compared the previous center of seat measurements,(i.e. the roof was near the same height).

Stock sliding rail over mounting bolt to roof - 37 3/4"
Stock sliding rail over mounting bolt to sunroof - 38 1/2"
No rail - from mounting bolt location to roof - 38 3/4"
No rail - from mounting bolt location to sunroof - 39 1/2"

Conclusions:

The stock rail takes up ~ 1 inch of headroom
We all know you can't put your head up in the sunroof area - its not in the correct position - so the measurements that are pertinent are the "roof" measurements.
The seat physically takes up ~2 1/4" from the rail. So it does help that the stock seat cushion sits in between the stock sliding rails. Any aftermarket seat is starting at the stock seat rails height unless you have some rails which are smaller than 1".

What about the non-sunroof car?
Measurements sent to me from someone I'm seriously considering buying a roller from:
36 1/2"......
which would only be a 1/4" difference. It is VERY IMPORTANT to note that I have no idea what their seat position was when they measured....
So can someone else measure it? It is my guess that the non-sunroof car should gain ~ 1-2 inches over the sunroof.
As a reference, my seating width is ~14 inches,(which happens to be the seat width of the stock seat, and my sitting height can vary from ~36-38 inches depending on how straight I sit.
Attached are the pictures of where I measured, etc..
The first is the center of the stock seat. The next two are the full recline measurement and then as a reference, a measurement to the portion which typically gets most of us - the smallest measurement. The last two show where I measured for the mounting point and for the seat rail point.
-Bob

Bob H

iTrader: (10)

For those w/o sunroofs, if you could take two measurements w/ the stock seats:
First, up the incline of the seat as described. For the second measurement, come forward to about where the sunroof would be, or the lowest/shortest point from the seam in the seat - basically straight up.

Bob H

iTrader: (10)

As a reference for those who want to track their car.

Most helmets add between 1.5-2" to sitting height. For example, if you clear with 36", you will need ~38" to fit comfortably with a helmet.
-Bob

money

iTrader: (2)

i think Bride Gias lowmax will do the job.

Bob H

iTrader: (10)

Measurements will help back that up.

I want to point out - this thread is not so I I can find out if a seat will work for me, but so Everyone can find out what will work for them. I already know what will work for me - A non sunroof car and any seat which is lower than stock.
-Bob

dhays

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for starting this thread Bob. My only complaint with the FD ($$$ not withstanding) is the lack of headroom. I'm only 6'2" (or I used to be) but I cannot sit up comfortably at all. I really am looking for a way to lower my seat to give me more clearance without ruining my stock parts. ie I'd like to be able to put everything back to stock at some point if needed.

I think it would be fun to try some autox, just to improve my driving skills. But there is no way I can fit in the car with a helmet.

stubble88

I bought the car with an after market sunroof installed. Idiots!!. And Im feel like an idiot for buying it. But it runs so good and is clean.
I want so bad to get rid of this sunroof, but how in the hell do you do that?
I dont know even with a race seat if my helmet would fit.

speedjunkie

iTrader: (3)

I'm 6'3" and have the same reasoning as dhays for wanting to sit lower. Well, for one my head pretty much touches the top, but it doesn't bother me unless I go over an unexpected bump and compress my vertebrae about 2". I have a touring model too, and I'd like to sit lower to be able to fit with a helmet on. I've looked at the Bride Gias lowmax as well, but it's more money than I can afford right now. And I've seen some from Gias replicas from F1Spec for alot cheaper (i.e. affordable), and I'm not sure if they're crash tested, I assume they are not, but RISEN here on the forums has them and he said the seat rubs on the door panel and B pillar when the seat is pushed back. However, it has about the same measurements around the shoulder bolsters as the Sparco Torino and those fit, so I'm not sure how these don't. I've been told to take some foam out of the stock seat in order to sit lower, but the seats already put my butt to sleep, which is part of the reason I'm looking for something else. I really like the new Sparco Chrono Road seats and they are a pretty good price, but from the specs it doesn't look like they'll fit.

Roamer

Just to make this a bit more scientific I think we need to remove variables. In the original post measurements were taken "up the angle of the seat to the roof". The problem here is that the angle can greatly lengthen the distance and give a false sense of headroom. This becomes more obvious when the poster compared the "angle" measurement to one taken from the floor. There is no way that there is only 1" of difference, which would be borne out if the seat measurement was taken properly.

Therefore, I suggest that all measurements be taken perpindicular to the roof down to the lowest point of the seat cushion. This will allow more consistent measurements and at least mitigate variables (you still have the angle of the seat cushion which could effect headroom).

For comparison sake I will be taking measurements from my EVO which has boatloads (I know, a real 'scientific' term) of headroom as a 'target' so-to-speak and post it for others to compare to. I am 6'4" and have a longer torso and can fit comfortably in the EVO with a helmet, so I would assume this is a good target for the taller folks among us.

Bob H

iTrader: (10)

While I agree with most of your points - allow me to point out a few errors to help clarify.
First, if comparing stock to stock - the angle of the seat shouldn't matter - since I specified it was at the forward most detent - basically, pull the lever to move the seat back fwd, then push it back by hand until it clicks. However, your point about it varying most certainly applies to aftermarket seats - as we don't know what angle they sit - esp. with some angling back towards the front.
A second clarification - the measurement to just behind the sunroof should stay - as it is the most vertical you can get w/o being into the sunroof. Therefore it should stay just behind the sunroof for touring/sunroof cars.
I think the easier way is to do as you say - and put pure vertical from the lowest point on the seat.
I'll modify the main post later tonight to reflect that. (basically remove the angle measurements).
BTW, I did measure to the same spot in the roof each time - but didn't compare my numbers to the "angle" number. I don't know where the 1" difference is coming from beyond misreading.
The stock seat takes up approx 2 1/4" ABOVE the seat rail. Compare the seat rail to roof number to the seat to just behind the sunroof number - they were measured to the same location in the car, so an accurate comparison.
Be careful about throwing around accusations on my measuring - you need to read more carefully. The 1" is the SEAT RAIL height, not the cushion.
Here are the direct comparisons,(will be updated in the first post):

Center rear of seat to roof portion just behind sunroof - 35 1/2"

Compares to:

No rail - from mounting bolt location to roof - 38 3/4"
and
Stock sliding rail over mounting bolt to roof - 37 3/4"

Mahjik

iTrader: (1)

When I get around to it, I'll be installing a Momo Start 2007 seat. I'll try to get some measurements when its in. However, considering it's been in a box in my garage for 4-5 months, I wouldn't count on them soon.

Roamer

Bob-

Point taken, my apologies for the mis-read. I also had no quables with measuring from the headliner and not the sunroof, the sunroof is offcenter and does not provide any relief unless you like to drive with the 'lean'.

So it seems we have a 'system' for the measurements, now we need the data! (I will do my part to provide the EVO reference, for what it is worth).

Smokey The Talon

iTrader: (33)

I'm very interested to know the measurements for the no-roof cars. In a touring my hair touches the headliner with the stock seats so I wonder if I'd even been able to fit in a no-roof car with a helmet. If that's the case I'll have to buy seats regardless either way.

Bob H

iTrader: (10)

Guys - I can't edit the first post anymore - so no chance of clarifying those items.
I'll ask the guy again for new measurements on the non-sunroof car. I'm sure someone can chime in.
-Bob

Roamer

Ok-

The 'headroom' in the EVO is 37.125" or 94.298 cm (converted). So it seems that there is enough room in the FD to accomodate big guys, but it depends on how low you can get a seat to go. Clearly, the stock seats/mounting are problematic.

I will also do a before-and-after of my personal headroom requirements (sit on a chair and measure the height to the top of my head) with- and without- a helmet so pepole can gauge how much additional clearance they may need to accomodate a helmet.

More data would be greatly appreciated by those with aftermarket seats in their FDs, so please keep it coming!

Thanks!

money

iTrader: (2)

isnt the RZ Recaros seat have the same fitment as in the measurements with the lowmax Gias?

aaron1017

Sorry to bump this, but my non-sunroof car is about right about 40 1/4" inch for the "No rail - from mounting bolt location to roof" measurement.

Bob H

iTrader: (10)

38 3/4" vs 40 1/4" from floor mounting point to roof.

1.5" gain in headroom w/no sunroof.

Thanks for the bump!

BTW, my helmet takes up just under 2" of headroom.

Smokey The Talon

iTrader: (33)

that's great info, thanks for that. It also tells me that even if I searched and found a no-roof car that I was looking for I likely would have still required aftermarket seats in order to fit with a helmet.

Roamer

I also concurr with the helmet measurements . . . I found that my helmet was ~1.75" over my un-helmeted torso height (39" vs. 40.75"). Using my Evo's measurements, the seat angle clearly helps make up the difference, but even there my helmet brushes the roof. Of course, this also tells me that an RX-7 in unlikely in my future unless I can find a way to get the seat to sit below the mounting points in a non-sunroof car . . .

Does anyone know if the Memoryfab mounts will allow the seat to sit below the mounting points?

Bob H

iTrader: (10)

Something to consider - your measurements to the top of your helmet - were you sitting as you do normally, or bolt upright,(i.e. much straighter than you normally sit in a car seat)? I can vary my sitting height by 2-3 inches. My normal driving,(track driving), sitting height is about 1" shorter than sitting as tall as I can.
Second - its only 1/2" - removing the stock padding in the seat area can lower you that much. Also, there are seats which will lower your sitting height overall - but those seats begin at $1100...,(Bride LoMax and the RS/RZ/Spirit R Recaro's)
-Bob

Roamer

Bob-

I was bolt upright. This was to help get my measurements in line with measurements perpindicular to the headliner. You are probably right that even a moderate seat angle should give me the room I need, providing I am dealing with a non-sunroof car and a lowered seat.

It would be nice if we had some more data on aftermarket seats in the FD to see which provides the greatest improvement in headroom . . .

Bob H

iTrader: (10)

By bolt upright, I mean sitting very tall - no slouching, relaxing, etc.. When I drive on the track, I have my seatback nearly vertical - its just the way I drive.
I'm hoping that people with aftermarket seats will see this thread and do some measuring.

J-Mo-15

hey guys. really informative thread first of all. So much so, that this is going to be my make or break for buying an FD, so im hoping someone is going to post some more measurements on the aftermarket seats. Like most, i dont want to spend thousands on a seat when i will be spending thousands more on the car.

Hope to see some new posts soon!

Thanks again
James

dhays

iTrader: (1)

Take note of the difference between those FD's with sunroofs and those without. I have a touring with a sunroof. I have to pop the sunroof up in order to fit in the car with a helmet.