DigitalSynthesis

No we are going to run it on the engine, in the car, at 6500+ rpm. This will let us see how much real-world on-car actual noise I'm getting in the CAS signal, versus how strong the signal is. It will directly state whether or not the reluctor pickups in the Haltech should be able to handle the signal or not.

I agree with RETed that their bench test doesn't prove or demonstrate much. That's why we're doing the oscope thing.

We might do the plug swap. We use Delphi connectors usually.

Haltech's opinion is their external RA8s are better shielded and more immune to noise than the ones built into the E6X. I will not comment on the significance of this statement.

jreynish

iTrader: (2)

ok, that makes more sense,
As for the cas plug mine is replaced by a GM Weatherpack plug.
So I konw that isn't the case. I really do hope that something comes out of this I want to drive my car... now that it is finished. (well hypthetically should be finished)

Let me know what you come up with DigitalSynthesis.

Jeffrey

DigitalSynthesis

GM Weatherpack = Delphi.

Of interest to you tech-heads out there, I just did a little pre-computation. At 8k rpm, a 24 tooth CAS such as we have makes a 192kHz signal. The wavelength of this is somewhere around 1562 metres, or just under a mile. Even considering 4th or 5th order harmonics which might be significant in the waveform, we don't have to worry about transmission line theory coming into play here: impedance matching at the source and load end is not a major factor.

Just a few things I noted.

GUITARJUNKIE28

^ way beyond me

jreynish

iTrader: (2)

that is a very strong signal would be hard to interupt that!

DigitalSynthesis

Wha??? You lost me. I was talking wavelength, not amplitude.

What I was saying is that the relative length of the wire is nowhere near important in this equation. I was initially concerned that we might be operating at frequencies which would cause certain complex (and problematic) electrical effects to occur which I was NOT looking forward to having to deal with, and then I realized that was NOT the case.

puaka

iTrader: (5)

Hey Guys,
I've been trying to get more info on this so I contacted Matt (Hitman) to get his thoughts on it as well. Have any of you tried locking your timing then running it up past 6500rpm to see if that improves the condition? Matt tells me he has a concern about the E6X actually retarding the timing on its own after 6500 rpm. Or, simply watch the data page while revving the motor. I'd like to know if anyone can duplicate this scenario and see if it goes away when the timing is locked. If so, this means we have a slight firware issue. At any rate, we'll keep pluggin away at it and at a minimum we'll get some O-scope readings this weekend.

Mike
kickyride.com
mazparts.com

jantore

I also have a E6X and have had some problems this summer. The first thing that happend was that one of my injector drivers for the pri injector did die on me. So i had to use the other driver on both pri injectors. Then when getting the car mapped, we could not get it over 7000 rpm, it would just not go over, and it stummebld like ****. We tried every thing, and the result was a blown apex seal, in the end. But this was after a horribel beating of trying to get past 7000 rpm. This was on 3mm hurleys.

Then i rebuilt the enging. Did some more tuning, and talked to haltech. Then we got it mapped all the way to 8000 rpm, on 1.2 kg of boost. This time only running 2mm hurleys. Every thing worked fine. Then we turnd the boost down to 0.9 kg and fine tuned that setting. Cause this was going to be my street setting. Then as i hit 7000 rpm every thing got bad again. They engine stopped pulling and it almost died on me. And it had the ******* V8 sound again. I had broken 2 seals, just like that.

When i opend every thing up i found over a half a liter of oil in the IC. I checked the turbo and every thing was fine. Then we checked the ventealtion from the filler neck and it was also full of oil. So we thought it was that. But then we rebuilt the engine. Started it up. Used all used parts and did run it in for about 500 km. Then turned the boost up and every thing was fine. Running 1.2 kg and going strong. AF was frome 11-5-10.5 at full boost. And ignition was very safe. Then turning the boost down to 0.9 kg again and did one pull, same thing happend. It hit 7000 rpm and boom, the engine died again.

So now im stumbeld to what's up. I have not checked the engine or the IC yet, even though it's over a month since it died again.

The E6X will be sendt to Haltech this week. And i hope they could sort it out.

JT

RETed

Wow, sorry to hear...
And I thought I was stubborn with hIGGI's FC trying to get the E11V1 to work good.
E11V1 sent back to Haltech AUS, and hIGGI is using a borrowed E6K.
He says the car is stupid fast now...


-Ted

jreynish

iTrader: (2)

ALRIGHT!
I finally got my car to start Regularely!!! and spark with consistancy!
Now the problem I have is that after I zero'd the timing that it ran like thit but the timing light was hitting the yellow marker dead on without any problem. But it still ran like ****. Also my car seems to be runnign really rich smoking some nice white smoke and running rich as hell. I am using a hitman e6k map converted to an e6x. but I don't think this is working really well for me... does anybody have a better map that might work to see if I have some more intermitent ignition issues.
If you have a good running map with stock 550 primaries I would greatly appreciate it if you could send it to;
jreynish@shaw.ca
Thanks.
Jeffrey

P.S. I got it to run more consistantly by getting a sheilded hollow cable and wraping the cas wires, then by taking foil wrap and wraping it and taping and shrinking arround the foil then grounding both the original haltech shield, plus the second sheilded cable and the foil and now she seems to have far less ignition break ups.

javrosario

iTrader: (5)

Hey ted i have an extra set of msd 8509 units if you want them. I have no used them for them. PM me.

Puck

iTrader: (1)

Hey guys:

I too have installed an X on my 87 TII FC. I ran into the same type of problems with the ignition, ie not getting a signal at all from the CAS. When this would happen, I would throw the battery charger on the battery for 10 minutes, hook it all back up, and away it would go. I decided to try a CAS from my 88 NA. I could not get a signal at all from it. One thing that I noticed was that as you turned the CAS from the NA, you could feel the teeth passing by the magnets, from the resistance. On the CAS from my TII, you could not feel the resistance, so I loosened the adjusting screws, and moved the magnets as close as I could to the teeth, without hitting them. I put the CAS back in, and it has been working well for me. I am not sure if this is what fixed it (or if it is even fixed), but it will start for me, after it has been sitting for a couple of weeks, with no problem.

On a side note, anyone using HalwinX find that you can't set the timing lock to -5 deg? Is there a work around for this?

Thanks,
Greg

Puck

iTrader: (1)

Jeffrey,

I would send you my map, but I don't think that my timing is set up right. Wouldn't want to hurt your engine.

Greg

jreynish

iTrader: (2)

Thanks anyways Greg, but if anybody has a map that runs the engine descently enough with 550 primaries It would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
Jeffrey

GUITARJUNKIE28

the stock hitman map should work, although it's pretty rich down low--even on ported engines.

grab an o2 sensor and watch the voltage. anything around the cruise range, you should be able to tune without a wideband. @ idle, you should probably see somewhere around 700-800mv from the thing, but you should be able to get it down to 450-600 in the 2-4k rpm range during cruise.

Claudio RX-7

iTrader: (1)

Hello again,

Im looking at your datalogg, and i see a few things, first, id like to know how you are firing your injectors, stagged or multipoint, and what size are they?, second, i see that your inj time is, at Idle, over 4mS, in my experience with rotaries, if you have set up stagging with factory injectors this is kinda high, and, if you have it setup as multipoint, its too low.

Also, i noticed in your datalogg the RPMs dont spike, which leads me to believe your are running into an overly rich mixture at that 4-5psi your talked about and that is what is causing your sputter.

Have a look at this particular datalog line:
Time MAP CLT TPS Air/Fuel RPM Inj mS O2 Val
187.800003 54.882355 82.631577 40.784313 1156.862793 9.17302 5521.568848 2509.803955 52.388237

This seems fishy, first, you have a column for Air/Fuel that reads one thing, and then another for O2 Value that reads what looks like a wide band sensor voltage? and in that particular point, you are at roughly @6psi @ 5521rpm @ 40%TPS @ 82*C @ 9.17mS @ 2.5v O2??????? that looks, in my humble oppinion, like a very strange condition, 2.5v O2 is 14.7 AFR (which is lean even for 5psi on a rotary), and with factory injectors at 9.17mS @6psi is downright rich! so, something is weird on your setup.

And finally, i saw you have the Decel Fuel Cut/off enabled, rotaries dont like this, they will sputter and backfire like crazy and warm up the exhaust gases even more when you let go the throttle.

The fact that you mentioned that your AFR is at 12-13 is strange, specially when you have those kind of mS on your datalogg, i would also go through your enrichment maps to see if they are adding more fuel than what you really need, i would go as far as setting them all to zero, and with the engine warm, just go by fuel maps only, just to be sure, and do another datalogg like the one you posted and lets go from there.

Hope this sheds some light on your build up. And also, if you can add the ignition timing to the datalog, and take out the load Var, its the same as the MAP colunm.

jantore

Hey Jeffrey il send u my map. It's fully mapped up to 1.2 kg at AF between 11.5 and 10.5. And will work good for a streetported engine. But u should not use boost on it before u have a wideband or somthing like that. It's mapped for a Trust TD06H-25G. Before the engine died due to the turbo leaking oil.

Il send it to u later today.

550 pri and 1600 sec. And about 2.9kg fuel pressure at vacume. U can compensate the fuel with either turning upp or down the fuel pressure.


Oh and the hitman map never worked good for me, the map was way to rough to use. It had to much fuel. Needed to lean it out good. Oh and check your timing before u start to drive the car.

JT

jreynish

iTrader: (2)

That would be nice Jantore that is my exact fuel setup... not too certain about fuel pressure at this time.
I do have a wide band but it is really rough like it is tough to simply keep idling. So that is why i am looking to get another map to try out.
Thanks.
Jeffrey

RETed

Try check and see if the Zero Throttle Map is active?


-Ted

DigitalSynthesis

Well guys, sorry to report no information from the oscilloscope. As you may have read in my lounge thread I spun my car and hit a wall on Friday night -- I'm fine, thank you for asking, but my car is probably totalled. Somehow I got the rear end loose completely accidentally in a turn and over-countersteered and the resulting violent snap spin caused me to lose control. The engine appears (for now) to be fine though so I'm going to try and get this sorted with insurance and go from there.

Anyway, I'm very sorry for not being able to provide the rest of you with this data as we had hoped.

As to the shielding fix, of course that would fix the problem. The issue here is not "will drastically overshielding the CAS signal give us a (somewhat) reliable high rpm performance" but rather under better-than-stock conditions already what is causing the ECU to have difficulty triggering at high speeds and is it or is it not something the ECU should handle as a normal event or is something abnormal coming into play here.

Again, as Haltech has already run up a 13BT CAS to 12k with no problems *ON THE BENCH* I have no doubts in my mind the ECU can handle it in an electronically sterile environment. But give it a situation that's considerably better than even stock, and it goes wack - WHY.

This question is still not solved.

Claudio RX-7

iTrader: (1)

Sorry to hear that Digital, that and having my car stolen are my 2 greatest nightmares, hope you can come back from it. On another note, as i explained in my previous post, your datalog doesnt actually show a splike anywhere in there, and when it happens, it usually picks it up. That is why i took delivery of mentioning it, and the values on there do look strangely odd.

But, i guess we'll all have to wait for your triunfant return to find out how this ends.

Good luck.

jreynish

iTrader: (2)

sorry to hear Digital!
Glad to hear you are ok.
but alas my battery has died and I must go back to school (was just home for the weekend)
But at least I got to take a short drive in her.
An update to come in a month or two.
Jeffrey

jreynish

iTrader: (2)

Well I installed a new turbo and exhaust on my car, as well as new lines and some other misc. stuff that needed doing.. then went to start my car and alas she will not start again....
I have found that there seems to be a problem with the haltech starting a car with a weaker battery... anybody else see this.. my voltage drops to 10.2 whil cranking. and doesn't work properly it kind of picks the trigger up intermittently, and thus only sends out spark intermittently.
Anybody have a similar experience with a solution?

pengarufoo

10.2 volts while cranking should be fine, thats actually pretty decent cranking volts.

jreynish

iTrader: (2)

what about amperage? There is something weird going on... and the only things changed were the fact that there was a different turbo and downpipe installed. and the battery had been recharge... but the battery doesn't seem to hold any real charge!