Well I street tuning my FD car runs great, but the second that I get in to boost It starts to knock. I have a wideband and it says that my AF is 10.1 or lower. If I let it slowly enter in to boost its fine.

So what could I have done wrong?

Haltech e6k with a 3bar map sensor.

 

If your fuel looks okay, can I hazard a guess it's ignition timing?


-Ted

 

Well I have 91 octane and I am pre mixing. And my timeing is set at 67 but I getting ready to check it to see if I did some thing wrong.

 

He's not talking about trigger angle, he's talking about your actuall timingmap values, or, in any other case, did you zero in your timing correctly?

Check your timing with a timing light and locking it at -5 degrees, if the leading mark lines up, then your timing map it self might be too advanced.

 

Well I went to hitman web site to zero the timing. Well I think I did it right. since it is a FD I locked the timing at 10. Then I set the trigger angle to 95. The idle was real rough but with a little gas the timming mark was right on so I subtracted 30 and set it to 65, and it is still knocking.

 

Thats your problem right there, if you locked the timing at 10, its way off, you can do this, set all the bars on the 0-2000 rpm ranges to 5 degrees. Then you can go to your split map and set all the bars on that map to 15 degrees, now, your timing is essentially locked at -5 degrees (5 degrees ATDC) on the leading and at -20 (20 ATDC) degrees on the trailing. Now, all you have to do is put the timing light clamp on the trailing plug and your 20 degeree pully mark should be aligned with a tooth offset of 5 and a trigger angle of 65. In the E8/E11 you can set the leading lock as well as trailing lock to -15 to properly dial in the timing. But you didnt mention what ECU this was so.

 

ok I think you just went over my head. But what is a split map?
I'm using a e6k.
Ok so i need to go to hte trailing map and set it to 15 degrees ok that is easy enough. But I guess I need to read my manual alittle more.

 

You do know that the rotaries run a leading timing and a trailing timing that are different all the way through the entire rpm/load range, right?

And yes, you should read the manual cover to cover. It explains a lot.

 

yeah, Ok I read the book well kinda, but I never saw a map for the leading just trailing map. I saw on that map that it covered 0-2000rpm never realized that there was a second screen 2000+rpm. But ok so I adjusted all the bars on the 0-2000 rpm ranges to 5 degrees. Then I went to 2000+ rpm and set all the bars on that map to 15 degrees. So like you said now my timing should be set. So would I need to lock my timing at 0?

 

I think you missunderstood me. What i recommended was a way to zero your timing on the REW engine, since the stock pully only has a 20 degree mark. Here is the proceedure again, i hope its clear:

1. Set all the bars on your 0, 500, 1000, 1500 and 2000 rpm maps (so no matter what RPM your are at idle) to 5 degrees at all the bars, on the main ignition map.

2. Set all the bars in the Ignition Trailing map (which is the split timing map) to 15 degrees, this will make the trailing 20 degrees.

3. Put your timing light clamp on trailing #1 plug and measure timing, it should be 20 degrees, if its not, adjust the trigger angle to make it dead on. Tooth offset should be set to 5 on a REW engine.

All this is the equivalent of setting the lock timing to -5 degrees on the haltech, if you had a 13BT engine with the 2 marks on the pully. After you do all these steps, reload your map so that the ignition timing goes back to what it was.

I hope that clears up everything.

 

ok now I got you. But so what do you do with the rest of the main ignition map after 2000 rpm. Just adjust for boost?

ok so in the ignition setup screen I have the trigger angle set at 90 and the the tooth offset set to 11 but you say it needs to be at 5 is that correct?

Well right now I have it set that car is timed with the mark and the pointer right on. The is idling at a 1000 rpm the way it set it make the exhaust tone loud I liked it better when it was 20 degrees out it was alot quiter and idled 750. I guess it runs this way because of the street port. But it getting late so I will take it out tomarrow to see how it runs.

One last question you say reload your map- so that means to save and reload map turn ign off then back on- right, sorry nod question.

Thanks again Claudio you have a great help.

 

What i told you to do with the timing was ONLY so you could make sure your timing was zero'd in correctly, this is why you were knocking, you were to retarded before.

You have to reload your map so the timing goes back to what you had it before you did what i told you.

If you're RPMs are a tad higher, just close the idle adjustment screw till you get 800rpms.

 

i thought you were gonna have me tune it?

 

Hey Junkie, i would say he is in urgent need of a qualified tuner, since he's timing needs to be properly zero'd. This is why i was going on about it.

 

i have the same problem on my 12a Turbo
i have zero the timing and all that,

but still my taco is jumping craczy over 2000rpm,
Is it possible tha Lead Coil and trailing coil is sitting to near? so there is interferens?

wtf am i doing wrong?

get knocking on boost and taco is jumping upp and down even before boost. getting crazy over here,

any answer vell be good

 

Hey Dave aka GUITARJUNKIE28, Im still tring to get the car on the road to get it to you, I dont want to tow it. Glen came down about a month and a half ago and spent about 4 hours tuning but I started to knock to much, we thought that I poped a vacuum line because of the way it was idealing so he ended leaveing. Well never found a leak and was guessing that it had to be fuel so it tuned for 10.1 that didnt fix so it had to be timing and RETed was thinking the same. So I went to hitman site so I tried that and then Claudio told me the right way. By the way thanks again for all the help. well just to give you a status on the car I have the car maped to be really rich so I need to do is fix this knocking. Oh yeah Im also working on renting a dyno here local if you would be intrested on coming up here.

 

disconnect the trailing coils and see what happens.

 

Huh, ok i'll try it after I get off.

 

You're freakin' crazy to be trying to boost with the ignition screwed up like that.
I'm surprised you didn't blow the engine up.
Oh, and please stop threadjacking.


-Ted

 

Hey ReTed it cool if he has the same problem that cool maybe we can kill two birds you know.

 

Man I cant believe this whole time I had my timing light on the leading plug and I was tring to advance the leading#1 to the mark and then my trailing #2 doesnt work. Damn this car is hosed.

 

Sounds like 2 different issues here...

The FD just needs to set BASE IGN TIMING...

And the 12A sounds like there is a trigger noise issue.

FD: Set your LOCK TIMING to -5, with a trailing split of 15*. Time your car off of TRAILING 1. This should put your timing at -20*. Adjust your trigger angle untill you are dead on the timing mark. If the timing mark is jumping around, you will need to adjust your gain settings. Worst Case Scenario: I have some Hall Effect pickups that will fit right in the stock location to replace the VRT sensors.

As far as your BASE IGN MAP, I'd recommend setting your vaccuum(non boosted) areas in the map to about 15-18 degrees, and postive MAP(boosted) bars to 10 degrees. This will be a safe ignition map, that your tuner will have the knowledge and ability to "tune".

12A: Adjust your gain settings, untill you are getting a clean RPM signal, and the engine will rev cleanly. Other things to be aware of: Make sure your trigger wires are running AWAY from things such as Ign Leads, Alternator, Ign coils/boxes, etc...

That should be about all.

 

you're never going to blow one of these engines up under heavy vacuum... 15-18 degrees is just going to waste fuel.

 

Yeah, the reasoning for this is so it is very CONSERVATIVE before the tuner gets his hands on it.... It will allow for some user error during the base timing/initial start up, for someone who does not know very much about stand alone EMS.

 

i agree to go conservative in say the 4"-boost range, but you can turn the high vacuum timing up until it misfires and the motor probably STILL won't detonate.