Hey all, I figured I'd make this thread to answer all your Haltech questions in one thread rather than lurking thread to thread.

---Introduction---
For those who don't know me, I work for a well-established sport compact import racing shop that specializes in both street, race, and any combination of the two applications.
We hold/have held world records in sport compact drag racing, have many GT3 trophies from our local COMMA races, as well as broke track records in those vehicles.
Though we primarily deal with piston engines, rotaries still spark joy.
We have been a Haltech Premium dealer for 3 years, and are one of, if not the largest distributor of Haltech product in the Honda market.
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---What this thread is for---
If you're looking to have any questions answered in regards to features or setups on the Haltech ECU, I would be more than happy to lend my expertise. If I can't answer it or dont know the answer, I have no problem telling you I have no idea, but I should be able to answer the overwhelming majority of questions or issues that arise as technical or as not-technical as you want it answered.
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Ask away, I'll try to answer. I'll try to use this post as a way to categorize questions if somehow this thread gets out of hand which I doubt it will.

 

Very excited about this thread. I will be tuning my semi PP 13b-REW on a haltech r3 myself. Will you be answering more in depth questions about tuning specific rotary haltech setups or just more generalized haltech questions?

 

I can try to answer anything you have to the best of my ability. I think there’s a lot of false mysticism when it comes to the rotary engine and tuning. There are certainly some things that are fundamentally different, but truth be told, a rotary engine and a piston motor tune very close to the same with some minor exceptions. (Mostly Lambda targets, how power changes with timing, timing split) most of the actual changes are just mechanical stuff. Increased fuel demand and turbo sizing are the two major ones.

 

and yet there are many of the latest piston engine tech concepts that are overlooked by most rotary engine people imo, the key is understanding how to correlate a proper relationship between the two.
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100%.

I've been lurking for the past 2 years not saying anything and observing for quite a while. There's a LOT of misinformation spouted about how 1.) VE ECUs work in general. and 2.) How engines work period. The rotary is indeed a radical concept of an engine compared to a piston engine, that is for sure. But like I said in my previous reply, the people that tune these cars act like it's some huge secret when in actuality it isn't. Tuning is already intimidating for people to approach on the piston side. People stoke fears on top of that by acting like the rotary engine is an engine that isnt beholden to basic concepts when in actuality it is borderline the same. They're just weak, knock limited engines. If you treat them as such, you don't run into problems.

In my experience, especially after having really deep dived into the haltech platforms, a lot of people that take your money lack many fundamental principles involved in understanding how VE as a concept works. If you can't grasp how VE works at a basic level, you're doomed when it comes to other basic subjects like PID tuning, understanding how all features work with each other, understanding how to read an oscilloscope, understanding how edges work, configuring triggers, accounting for timing drift, configuring injectors. Heck, last year I saw one of the more (what I call) 'facebook popular' tuners make the claim that fuel types affect VE because of the stoich change of the fuel, absolutely brutal.

My purpose with this thread is solely to educate. I'll also make more in depth videos deep diving how it all works with practical examples when possible. Have zero things to hide when it comes to the fundamentals. Higher level race-functions are quite a bit closer to the chest because of the competitive nature of it all. But when it comes to getting your project car running reliably, safely, and consistently, I'm an open book.

 

I will hopefully embark on a single turbo build shortly. Planning on running the R3.

I did have a specific question related to the OMP, or lack thereof. I plan on removing the OMP as I dont want to putt motor oil and inject into the motor. So I have 2 options-- remote tank and hope the OMP continues to function mechanically, or remove and more premix. I am leaning toward the latter since I premix anyway.

My question is about decel and keeping the engine lubricated. I *assume* there is a decel function that will continue to inject fuel at 0% throttle keeping the internals lubricated?

I did take the HP Academy 10 step course and the Haltech for fun, but if you are diving deep into subjects and have videos, I look forward to learning more.

 

Welcome back. I lurk more than post too, I subbed to your channel a long time ago. Remember when you left the (rx) platform, but all good. Hope all is well for you

 

Yes. You just don’t enable the decel fuel cut function.

 

​​​​​​​HPA is a great resource to understand the basics of what's going on, but it doesn't do a great job of explaining practical features and how to use them in the general lesson stuff from what I've seen. They have individual webinars that go over specific functions for more in depth look, but you're beholden to whatever they cover.

To answer your question, under the decel function, turn off decel cut. That's it. Don't disable theentire function just turn off the decel cut, it's used to determine other things like when to activate closed loop idle control for example.

 

Thanks for starting this thread and thanks in advance for the help. Lets keep this going! My car is finally running quite well on the Haltech but I'm looking for some overall advice regarding ignition timing.

I think a lot of DIY tuners here just grab a timing map that's been deemed "safe" on the forum and focus mainly on AFR. I have a setup that is running well but feel that gains could be made on the ignition side of things.
I have a heap of questions and don't really know where to start, but here we go anyway:

#1 - What is the best way to determine safe timing? I have a large street port and nothing to directly compare to online. Is it possible to make a determination without a dyno?

#2 - I have dual Bosch donut knock sensors but not sure how to interpret the data correctly. Are these helpful for the ignition tuning process or am I just going to have good data if/when I make a mistake?

#3 - I have a moderately large turbo (S366 SX-E) and would like to improve the boost threshold. I understand that I can retard the timing before the turbo comes online but is this just trial and error? Can I take it too far? I do have pre-turbo EGT and EMAP sensors. Would you normally just run a few tests on a dyno and look for area under the curve overall? When should I worry about EGT?

#4 - How sensitive is timing in the sub-atmospheric area of the map. Is it safe to experiment more aggressively outside of the boosted regions? On my old N/A cars I would just add advance until it lost power or made too much heat, then dial it back a bit. Never had an issue previously but scared to use that approach on a turbo car (even outside of boost).

#5 - If I'm not worried about emissions/smell/smoothness (just power) - what should I do with my timing split? Should I be using split to help lower boost threshold?


#6 (The big question in all of this) - I do understand that timing can be quite sensitive to a boosted rotary. Should I just forget about chasing timing and run higher boost to compensate?


Thanks,
Alex

 

I'm just now seeing this months later.


#1 - What is the best way to determine safe timing? I have a large street port and nothing to directly compare to online. Is it possible to make a determination without a dyno?
You need a dyno.

#2 - I have dual Bosch donut knock sensors but not sure how to interpret the data correctly. Are these helpful for the ignition tuning process or am I just going to have good data if/when I make a mistake?
Yes, you have to dial in the frequency to make sure it's monitoring the correct frequency.

#3 - I have a moderately large turbo (S366 SX-E) and would like to improve the boost threshold. I understand that I can retard the timing before the turbo comes online but is this just trial and error? Can I take it too far? I do have pre-turbo EGT and EMAP sensors. Would you normally just run a few tests on a dyno and look for area under the curve overall? When should I worry about EGT?
I wouldn't do this. If you want faster spool, make the changes mechanically. Retarding the timing also drops the power and can do the exact opposite of what you're wanting to do.

#4 - How sensitive is timing in the sub-atmospheric area of the map. Is it safe to experiment more aggressively outside of the boosted regions? On my old N/A cars I would just add advance until it lost power or made too much heat, then dial it back a bit. Never had an issue previously but scared to use that approach on a turbo car (even outside of boost).
It's not sensitive at all. Just don't do anything ridiculous.

#5 - If I'm not worried about emissions/smell/smoothness (just power) - what should I do with my timing split? Should I be using split to help lower boost threshold?
Set it to whatever makes the most power safest and drives the smoothest at commanded AFR. Lower, even negative splits help cruise at leaner AFR.

#6 (The big question in all of this) - I do understand that timing can be quite sensitive to a boosted rotary. Should I just forget about chasing timing and run higher boost to compensate?
You should tune the timing correctly within reason. Too low is just as bad as too high.

 

OMP Wiring
I searched around and it seems the 12V contacts should be removed and Haltech configured for 4-wire operation. Is this correct? I also have the OMP with 10-pin connector. Haltech NSP has the 6 wire option, does this nominally not function the way it's anticipated?

1991 FD RX7
Haltech 2500
Stock wiring

 

Hopefully you know about the old systems . I am running my '90 engine with an F10 and a distributor in my '82 chassis. I'd like to replace the F10 with and F10x so that I can run the Windows software. I've looked at the wiring harness diagrams and they look essentially identical. Can I just plug the F10x into the F10 connector?

 

Haltech had always run the OMP as a dual half bridge stepper. That configuration deletes the two 12V feeds at the OMP. This configuration works fine. I’ve been told by an EE that wiring it this way is technically superior but I don’t remember the explanation. It’s been quite a while since

For some reason they decided recently to allow you to use the 12V feeds, 6 wire configuration, with NSP. In this configuration, the control circuits only pull to ground and don’t have to go high like they do for half bridge control. So you can use 4x DPOs to control the OMP instead of having to use half bridge outputs.

They’ve also included a new default setting for the OMP which is for the 6 wire configuration. If you want to wire it using half bridge and four wires, probably still the best method for Elite ECUs, you’ll need to select Custom 4 wire as the setting.

 

hello,I bought a newish fd with a bad engine and haltech, i just put in a known working engine and wired everything up but the car doesn't start. it has spark and fuel, not sure what could be wrong. hopefully someone can look through my logs and help me troubleshoot thanks so much.

 

will need much more information than what’s been given. Is the new engine in the same exact configuration as previous ? All sensors and outputs the same ? Which Haltec? Etc

 

Have another technical question. A friend of mine is running a Haltech 1500, already tuned. He has not updated the firmware in roughly 2 years. I know since then, Haltech has added a significant amount of feature updates. If he jumps from his existing firmware version to current, will that have an impact on his existing tune? Is there a way to sequentially update the firmware as a better option? We have his map saved, but didnt want to update and run into issues with his current tune.

 

You should NEVER update the firmware after its been tuned. Generally, you update the firmware before you start tuning and then never thing about it again unless there is some new feature you need. In theory, everything is supposed to update and stay the same, but reality is **** happens and the tune might change.

thewird

 

Yikes. Think about how many new features the have added in 2 years. The injection staging alone is a big upgrade .

 

and again, unless the end user is going to effectively check the whole tune it's asking for a failure. Who knows what combination of incorrect dead times, flow rates and fuel pressures have been baked into the existing map. Likewise if the engine system is relying on completely unrelated but potentially changed ecu functionality like standard or default state of conditional logic that could mess with anything from fuel pump switching to various rev limits.

Different story if someone has self tuned and is checking over everything on a firmware change. If it's just an operator user it's asking for trouble.


I guarantee you people using PLCs for safety critical systems don't just upload firmware changes without doing full commissioning checks.

 

Reminds me of when the Nexus firmware came out everyone thought it was broken and blowing up peoples engines, meanwhile there was absolutely nothing wrong with it and it was the best thing ever. If you are not the tuner, do not touch the damn firmware. You shouldn't even be plugging in your laptop if you don't know what your doing as you can change something accidentally and not even realize. Yes, people are dumb.

thewird

 

If a shop has experience tuning Haltech but nothing rotary, would you trust them to tune a BT 13b?