I have a Ballenger AFR500v2 (NTK) that I have been using with FuelTech.

Now that I am moving to an R3 ECU is it better to use the on-board o2 controller? Or is the Ballenger still a better option? Is there a difference in accuracy and does it matter? I will be using an NTK sensor

Apart from the on-board being simpler to install and using 1 less input, is there any discernible difference?

 

The strength of the AFR500v2 is how stable the heating circuit is, alongside usage of lab grade NTK sensors - it's accuracy and repeatability is why I've swapped my old engine dyno controllers using 'disposable' LSU 4.2s even though I still need to keep them around for my hub dyno and its onboard controller.

That said so long as the heating circuit isn't overdriving things such as Innovates old(and probably current) gear the LSU is completely adequate for standard fuels if you keep it cool/downstream. I personally would keep it simple and run the onboard controller unless I was doing heavy alcohol injection, constant e85, meth, etc.

TL;DR - on paper and in real world use the AFR500 is superior, you probably wont be able to tell the difference in actual use and it makes for a cleaner install.

 

I recently killed an innovate LSU 4.9 in a few hundred miles on the FD, and have another one on the way out in my FB (via Haltech WB1).

I've been wondering about this myself - if I should upgrade to the NTK via WB1 or the standalone Ballenger unit.
My innovate would slowly trend leaner and leaner until it stopped working, while the WB1 just cuts out under boost at the top of the pull. Interested to hear if anyone has had a good experience with the Haltech WB1/NTK sensor.


dguy: I'm guessing my sensors have been getting overheated and cooked and am under the impression that the NTK is better suited to high temps. That said, I have always wondered how important the controller is. You're saying that the cheaper controllers might just keep the sensor hotter overall? Therefore more likely to toast when we throw some good heat at em?

 

Innovate is ****. Has always been ****, will always be ****. Nothing to do with the sensor. Their controllers are trash.

 

Well put. The controller is the key to accuracy. ECM, the company that makes the AFR500 controller for Ballenger, pretty much sets the industry standard.

That said, I’ve had good luck with Haltech and their standalone and internal controllers with the Bosch sensor. They give good life and apparent accuracy on everything I've used them on. I’ve only used an NTK sensor once with their internal controller, when the R5 was first released, and it was a disaster. They had issues with the firmware and the reading were skewed heavily rich. That said, they’ve apparently corrected the issue. Haven’t felt the need to use an NTK with their stuff since.

IMO, either option will work well for the original poster. If you have an extra analog input, use the AFR500. Otherwise, use the internal controller with confidence.

 

Sounds like it’s worth keeping, but wouldn’t be worth buying if I didn’t already have it. Easy enough, I have the inputs to support it.

 

Not sure why so many people have sensors failing with the Haltech Controllers?
We fit them day in day out for many cars in the shop I can't think of the last time I had to replace a sensor.

Three things come to mind that could be variables to consider if your damaging sensors

Bad Controller (AEM, innovate etc)
Too close to turbo(Rotaries produce lots of heat)
Sensor mounted below horizontal and is retaining water, oil, fuel etc

If I had an R3 I would be using the onboard controller. It's significantly faster, you will find yourself factoring less for o2 delay when tuning and get a better picture of what is happening.

My 2 cents

 

Yes, cheaper controllers tend to overdrive the heating circuit causing premature sensor failure. The odd floating ground issue that Innovates had didn't help matters either.

 

Sounds like the issue was with the R3/5 when it was first released, and since then it’s been fixed. It’s still a very new ECU

 

Early R3 and R5 hardware had some issues with controllers. They have long been resolved now.

 

Where is your sensor located? When I installed my new wideband, the manual says it needs to be located 18" away from the compressor housing. Most I have seen are in the DP and with the heat our motors put off, can kill the sensors quickly if they are too close.

 

Flat section of the downpipe, OEM location. But we will make a new downpipe and the o2 location might change

 

I would reference the manual for the O2 sensor. Mine said 18" away from heat source to ensure it survives. I had bung welded in the midpipe just over the flange to DP.

 

I have fitted many to OEM down pipes in the OEM location, Most sensors seem to go for roughly 3-4 years before they fail. It's definitely recommended to have them further away though. 18inch as mentioned already is a good place to be