SakeBomb Garage

iTrader: (17)

Glad I could help!

It'll be fully streetable, the only issue is removal of the air pump, which messes with emissions restrictions. The only other con of running our comp kit on the street is slightly longer warm-up time (we're talking a few minutes, not 20-30 minutes).

Our street kit will allow you to retain the OEM air pump and thermostat, basically splicing the EWP inline where the mechanical pump used to be. This means you'll be able to pass emissions without trouble... unless you have other issues to worry about

Air pump and thermostat, so your car will warm up a little bit quicker and still pass emissions.

That's correct. The controller is set to pulse the pump ever 8-10 seconds while cold so that coolant still circulates, and increases the pulse width as temperature increases.

MattGold

iTrader: (108)

Interesting. So will running an air pump be an "option" on the street kit? Or can I add a thermostat to the comp kit?

I guess I'm in the position where I don't run an air pump, but this is definitely a street car.

Let me ask is another way: If I don't run an air pump - is this the right kit for me or should I wait for the street kit?

SakeBomb Garage

iTrader: (17)

There are only two advantages for the street kit (not yet finished) and a few disadvantages
1. Keep your airpump - The comp kit does not allow for retention of the air pump
2. Keep your thermostat - The comp kit flows better with no thermostat in the way and the digital controller takes care of thermostat duties by altering flow speed based on the current temperature. Your car will however take a bit longer to warm up without the thermostat in the loop, but the overall cooling system performance is better. You can not add a thermostat to the comp kit, it will not work due to the design.

SakeBomb Garage

iTrader: (17)

Here's a quick teaser video showing a bit of the flow testing and principles behind the design. We've got a more in-depth video coming but for now, here's a preview

SakeBomb Garage

iTrader: (17)

Yes we are finishing up anodizing them to match the OEM coolant housing (a gunmetal gray color), and machining our emblem into them now. We're just waiting on the last process from the machine shop.

-Heath

TwinCharged RX7

iTrader: (14)

I might just be thinking about it wrong, but why does this eliminate the stock thermostat? Doesn't it still flow through all the same places and fill neck?

SakeBomb Garage

iTrader: (17)

The pump location is the reason for the removal of the thermostat. To streamline things and to make the pump work optimally we have the pump plumbed into the radiator directly. Since these are not self priming pumps it's essential that this pump is mounted as LOW AS POSSIBLE in the engine bay. Anyway long story short the pump is on the radiator side of the coolant system, so if you left the thermostat in place the pump would no longer circulate coolant.

The street kit moves the pump so the thermostat can stay in place, but the flow paths are not as optimal and the thermostat itself creates a flow restriction. So the street kit lets the motor warm up faster but max flow is restricted. Hence the street kit and the comp kit.

Shoot us more questions if you've got them!

-Heath

SakeBomb Garage

iTrader: (17)

We wanted to show a bit of the design iterations we went through for the comp kit. We went through many different designs, part and shape iterations, and quite a bit of testing to end up at what we consider to be the optimal setup for the FD.

Rxmfn7

iTrader: (4)

Did you test, or do you happen to have any data on the flow rate of the factory mechanical pump? Ive been doing alot of research on electric pumps myself for a while, and while I would really like to convert I am up in the air on if these will flow enough to cool at sustained high rpm usage, such as HPDE events or actual racing. In an atricle from an LSx website in an interview with meziere about their water pumps, they stated that :
"Our 55GPM rated pumps were shown to flow approximately 22GPM in a V8 system with a 17x22 radiator. A typical mechanical v8 pump would flow 70gpm at 6500rpm"
That quote itself scared me, as most of their pumps are marketed more towards drag racers and cars that dont see sustained high rpm usage, and where the electrical pump had the advantage at a lower rpm. Now I know the DC pump isnt a meziere, but it is also rated at a lower 40GPM. So basically what Im getting at is, do you know what our stock pump would flow at a given RPM?

SakeBomb Garage

iTrader: (17)

Unfortunately I don't have first hand data on the stock pump. The meziere pumps (at least the ones I've seen in the past) were much less sophisticated than the Davies Craig EWP 150's. If you check out the top post comparing impeller size and design, it's obvious which one is more efficient... but max flow I can't say.

Another other question to pose with the stock pump is... at 9000 RPM's is it cavitating or outside it's efficiency range? If so regardless of total flow volume it may not be moving the coolant in a way that is the most conducive to pulling heat from the block in the coolant passage ways. The coolant passageways in the block are quite small, and forcing a huge volume of coolant through many straw-sized passage ways may not be the best way to go either. To simplify the system down to max flow volume does not give the entire picture of what's actually taking place in the cooling system as far as heat extraction from the motor. What I can say is that the impeller design is highly superior to the OEM design, and being electric the pump stays in its efficiency range, which the OEM one is a compromise for sufficient flow at low RPM and cavitation at high RPM.

-Heath

PS keep the questions coming... I appreciate being able to talk about some of the details and don't mind stating my points. I'm not trying to get anyone to sip the kool aid here, and am not trying to make a hard sell. The goal here is to improve the FD cooling system as much as possible and max it out. There are other things we've done (high-efficiency dual oil coolers being a big one) to try to improve the reliability of the rotary engine in the FD, and are continuing to figure out ways to (hopefully) increase the reliability to the point where these motors will last for a long time into the future by patching some of the flaws that it left the factory with. The work we do is a collaborative effort with the rotary community, we're not here to try to make a fast buck or sell snake oil. Often we literally lose money on these projects but continue to pursue them because this is our passion... we've been trying to branch out into the miata market recently to pay the bills as the FD parts simply can't sustain us with the low sales volume... but as long as we stay in business we won't stop innovating for the FD.

Nateness

iTrader: (7)

SBG,

I'm really impressed with your work. As someone who is an engineer in an industry that also deals with thermal management, I definitely appreciate your attention to detail and the features that you are including, such as the PWM controller.

As a suggestion to consider, it would be very interesting if you were to throw on a small flow meter (e.g. a line-size inline mag meter) and also record return water temps. With this data, you could map out the flow, head, and achieved cooling capacity.

Because the engine block and accessories are essentially a fixed-oriface system, it is possible for you to establish the pressure drop across the "system" with this data and extrapolate across different operating points using the determined Cv value. This would help establish the range of power outputs that your kit is able to support.

It would also be cool if a pump curve map at various pump RPM values could be provided

SakeBomb Garage

iTrader: (17)

To be honest, we have so many projects going on at the same time that there's only so much additional data collection we can do. We talked about measuring flow of the stock pump compared the electric water pump across various parameters and in different conditions, however as you already realize, that testing is a very time intensive process.

If you'd be interested in running any of these tests and doing a writeup of your findings, please shoot us a PM and maybe we can work something out.

MattGold

iTrader: (108)

Just curious... The LCD controller is listed as "optional". Without that, what controls the EWP? Does it just operate off the thermosensor?

What features do / don't you have with the LCD controller?

SakeBomb Garage

iTrader: (17)

It isn't so much that the controller is optional, but the LCD controller is an optional upgrade over the older style controller. All kits will come with a controller, but the option is between the older model and newer model.

Benefits of the LCD controller over the old style are easier to read graphics, an optional warning alarm, and simply the fact that it's a newer model. While we aren't crazy about the blue backlight (makes our human factors specialist cringe) the new updated graphics are pretty cool. It's got a thermometer style temperature gauge, which also displays your setpoint next to it. Icons representing the EWP and fans show you when each is running properly as well.

Overall, the newer controller is just easier to use. It's about the same level of complicated, but it mostly depends on if you want to use a screen based system or one with small LED indicator lights.

Just to reiterate, all of our water pump kits come with a controller.

20bseven

Hi Guys,

is it possible to buy just the SBG Coolant Redirection Plate ? I already have an electric pump and was going to make up a custom adaptor from behind the stock water pump to remove the component completely. but if I can buy the redirector plate then it will save me some fabrication.

SakeBomb Garage

iTrader: (17)

PM sent! It's possible, but you'd need more than just the redirect plate, depending on your setup. If anyone else is interested in this, please PM us for more info so that we can help you build a custom setup according to your needs.

Game of the Wangan

iTrader: (2)

make a kit for FC!!!

SakeBomb Garage

iTrader: (17)

Planning on it! Our shop FC is going to be getting a lot of attention and upgrades very soon

REnaissance_Sle7in

iTrader: (8)

Curious how this would work with the ast deleted. Would this negate the necessity for the FC thermostat housing or would all that still need to be in place, just remove the t stat?

SakeBomb Garage

iTrader: (17)

We're still developing our FC kit so I can't say for sure yet.

SakeBomb Garage

iTrader: (17)

Alright everyone, we're gearing up to begin shipping the SBG Competition EWP kit. Our flow plates are finally finished and back form anodizing, and the last trip to the machine shop for the final touches.

We'll be closing the group buy / pre-release sale shortly so for anyone still on the fence or seeing this late, this is last call












https://vimeo.com/122498924





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SakeBomb Garage

iTrader: (17)

https://vimeo.com/122498924

SakeBomb Garage

iTrader: (17)

For anyone not yet submitted, we're closing the GB/Pre-order on the competition EWP kits at the end of the week. The quickest way to get in contact with us is to email us at info@sakebombgarage.com

WRX7 STI R1

iTrader: (3)

Forgot to post up a couple days ago that I paid for my EWP. I await its arrival!

jmm8904

iTrader: (19)

Any idea when these will ship.