Prometheus

iTrader: (2)

I'm just wondering why the starting price is around $20,000.00 USD

Is it just Superiority?

I understand there is a lot of work cramming one of those into a FD, but you think that there would be enough people done that there would be some kind of general guideline to follow for "reliable" installation.

I'm not trying to undermine the technicians, I'm just wondering why I don't see more of them around (never actually seen one, just videos and pictures)

Thanks

~Jesse

RETed

Cause people are willing to pay for it?
Cause people are stupid?

Seriously, if you're good at fabrication...it's about $100 worth of materials and a few hours of your time.
That adapter engine cradle is the most PITA part when stuffing it into an FD.
That's the bulk of the cost...


-Ted

Prometheus

iTrader: (2)

Where do I find a guide, I have looked and come up with "shallow" information, is there anybody that has a detailed step by step guide to their 20B conversion.

I want to bring something new to the Portland, Oregon scene. and I think it would be a fun project.

fluffysheap

It's mostly the mystique I think. Part of it is that the engines themselves are really expensive, plus really should be ported, so that's a rebuild, and rebuilders charge a premium for 20B because they can. Then tuning is "hard" because the plug-and-play computers don't work even though it's not significantly harder than tuning any other standalone. Ignition is funky because of six independent plugs but again, not magic.

If you have the skills to fabricate your own mounts, pick out your own turbo(s), fit your own plumbing, do your own tuning, and do your own rebuild/porting then you can do it for 1/2 of what the tuners charge, and most of that is the cost of the engine and computers. However there are not many people that have all those different skills and equipment and most that do are the ones charging $20K to do it for someone else.

With engine swaps, remember the rule: "It always costs more than you think." Don't do your own swap to save money, in the long run, you won't save that much, and it'll certainly take longer. Do your own swap because you want to.

Nuvolari

iTrader: (4)

I saw one with power steering and AC. Sounded like a animal , think it was something stupid like 550rwhp at 10 psi ...and it had torque !

Once I finish my Fd I may get a second one and go 20b , its worth the effort

vkotis

On a video i have Amemiya-san has an NA 20b FD with something like 440hp. it sounded badass!

Rocking Rotary

iTrader: (14)

It cost so much becouse they dont fit.

mirabile

Thats one reason.
If you can fab your subframe and exhaust manifold you save some money.
If you can port all your own housings and build your own motor you can save money.
If you can install and tune something like the Electromotive tec 3, you can save some money.

If you cant......

You really need to rebuild the rear of the car, axles, diff, ect.
You need a better clutch, and eventually a better transmission unless your going to be gentle the whole time. You need the custom fuel rails and fuel system....Ignition, of course.
Relocate your steering rack. Get a bigger radiator. Intercooler plumbing...
I can post a price list of base parts without labor if you really want. If it were 100$ and some fab skills there would be more then the around 20 running 20Bs it seems that there actually are in the US.

slo

iTrader: (1)

I'm pretty sure there is a fair amount more than 20 running 20B's in the US. When I priced out converting my FC to either 20B or 13BRE/REW I came to around 9-11K for the 20B if using the stock turbo's including engine rebuild for parts only. Of course mounting a 20B into an FC is much easier then mounting one in an FD.

In case your curious the 13B-re cost me around half that mostly due to the entry price of a used engine. I could actually buy 4 13B-re's from my engine supplier for the cost of a used 20B shipped.

mirabile

I was refering to Fds. I realize there are more FCs, but I actually do not know how much easier it would be to do an FC swap? 9-11k is a VERY low number, and it seems to be a steal. I would guess you would average double that price quote for most Fds. You seem to have a connection on the BRE, and REWs. I think you might be surprised how many running 20bs are out there. To make this seem like an "easy" or "cheap" project would be lying. If someone has done the swap in a 3rd gen for under 20k please show a price list.
I would appreciate your price list on the FC swap for 11k.

dradon03

iTrader: (2)

I don't think you are going to be bringing anything new to the Portland, Oregon scene. www.pineappleracing.com I think they even have a 4 rotor for sale. 25+ years of experience is tough to beat.

A 20b is 6 inches longer than a 13b. That is why it is so difficult to fit.

GtoRx7

iTrader: (5)

This is not something that needs to be done anymore.

felix_is_alive

the reason its so expensive , i believe its usually the hours invested in the damn thing , getting a subframe , bumpsteer correction (some installs dont require this ) ,radiator filler neck , radiator ,flywheel , ECU , wiring,coils (usually needed) refreshing of engine , (mostly incudes porting and is more expensive to do than 2 rotor because of the extra housing/plates) ,clutch,injectors (if upgrading to single) bigger fuel pump ,intercooler piping , and intercooler ,if you can do it youre self you will save a lot of money but be warned it is not for someone who isnt skilled , its not like bolting in a turbo there is some fabing lots of "bracket" making and **** again its mostly the hours ...al this i know for the FD i believe the FC should be easier......

mirabile

haha....I know I know. I got the bumpsteer, linkage kit and subframe from RX-7 specialties and we still had a lot of playing with the steering rack....

I think this thread was not really a serious inquirey. Not knowing about Pineaple shows a lack of knowledge.

20gs is almost a low number to do this project correctly. Sure it can be done less expensively....but not that much, and at some point you start to cut corners which will bite you in the *** later

Prometheus

iTrader: (2)

Thanks a lot guys, I was just thinking for the far future, I'm still waiting for my damn car to be shipped...

LOL

cptpain

iTrader: (1)

in order to have the supercar peformance(fd) with supercar power(20B), you gotta pay the supercar price($15K bare minimum)

AF_H1VLTG3

Felt like posting it anyway:
http://fc3spro.com/TECH/SWAP/COSMO/20b.html

shelbyinyoface

I have read because the 20b is 6 inches longer , the weight throws off the balance
of the car. PFsupercars , whenever they do the swap they move the tranny back six inches as well as the firewall(or housing ). Giving the car alot better balance.
I've heard that this is the only proper way to do the 20b swap.
Don't bash on me if you think this was a dumb comment.