V8 vs Rotary 3rd gens
12-23-02, 02:23 PM
#26
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Boulder Colorado
Posts: 328
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I don't understand... If I wanted a V8 I'd go buy an SS, WS6, or Vette. The charm and persona of the RX7 is the engine. It is what sets this car apart. I saw an article where someone put a Supra engine into an FD, why?? Would you put a Chevy engine in a Mustang? Some people would I suppose. There are defining characteristics to all great things...for the RX7, it is the Wankel. Everyone is entitled to their opinion....mine...the RX7 is not an RX7 w/out the Rotors! You'd have to call it a PX7 with a V8.....(P=piston)
12-26-02, 11:39 AM
#27
Originally posted by Project84
I read through this thread, and I came to a few conclusions:
In an RX-7, the RX stands for Rotary eXperiment. If you put a piston engine in it, it will effectively become a PX-7, Piston eXperiment, just like any Air Force jet with the president on board becomes Air Force One, and a Navy jet would become Navy One.
Aluminum block piston engines are almost as light as rotary engine.
I read through this thread, and I came to a few conclusions:
In an RX-7, the RX stands for Rotary eXperiment. If you put a piston engine in it, it will effectively become a PX-7, Piston eXperiment, just like any Air Force jet with the president on board becomes Air Force One, and a Navy jet would become Navy One.
Aluminum block piston engines are almost as light as rotary engine.
02-08-03, 08:04 AM
#28
Junior Member
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Australia
Posts: 22
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Here in Australia We have a limited edition Ford XR8 Running a 5.6L Windsor V8 (TE50 http://www.fordperformancevehicles.c...?link_id=2.163) that is hand built. It is has lightend Pistons, strengthed conrods .. etc all that piston rubbish.
I just brought A SIV TII an i raced this guy in a Brand spanking new one (it didn't even have a rego sticker) three times in about 10 mins and i beat him by a car length to 100kmh every time.
Now if you consider that his capacity is 4.3 times mine and has the same weight, and he had a manual and i had an auto. Also consider that my car is using 16 year old technology and cost one sixith his did.
That is pretty shameful, also people say how much power a V8 has .. there is nothing like a worked rotor!!
As far as reliability is concerened, it is safe for me to say that we are all enthusiasts here and drive our cars hard. Any car that is driven hard needs to be serviced regularly. Look at race cars there engines need to be replaced, and trust me they look after them.
So if you want performance you will need to pay money to maintain and run your car. If you want reliability get a Toyota Corona or Honda Civic. However i fail to see how they could do a 13.9 Sec 400 stock.
I just brought A SIV TII an i raced this guy in a Brand spanking new one (it didn't even have a rego sticker) three times in about 10 mins and i beat him by a car length to 100kmh every time.
Now if you consider that his capacity is 4.3 times mine and has the same weight, and he had a manual and i had an auto. Also consider that my car is using 16 year old technology and cost one sixith his did.
That is pretty shameful, also people say how much power a V8 has .. there is nothing like a worked rotor!!
As far as reliability is concerened, it is safe for me to say that we are all enthusiasts here and drive our cars hard. Any car that is driven hard needs to be serviced regularly. Look at race cars there engines need to be replaced, and trust me they look after them.
So if you want performance you will need to pay money to maintain and run your car. If you want reliability get a Toyota Corona or Honda Civic. However i fail to see how they could do a 13.9 Sec 400 stock.
02-10-03, 10:57 AM
#29
ok i skimmed most of this and really haven't cared too much in general. the rotory fascinates me with its unexplored capabilities and that is why i'm here. i know that there is at least one aluminum v8 that weighs the same or less giving the 50/50 now. but how much of the weight has moved fore the front axle and how much has moved up raising the roll center? overall weight still isn't describing where the weight is located. just curious on these notes.
02-10-03, 07:32 PM
#30
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: SJ, CA
Posts: 333
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
also for the weight comparison, if those numbers are accurate (i know an "old" 13B weighs about 295 pounds, so i don't see why an REW with all ancillaries wouldn't weigh 410, as you stated - but i've never weighed one) ... anyway ... my point is this, you obviously can't run the LS1 without ancillaries so that 390-400 will easily approach 550 pounds (most likely even more). so the V8's are heavier. there's no getting around that. i can lift a 13B and carry it by myself, (albeit, not more than a couple yards at a time.) i can NOT lift a V8 by myself ... PERIOD!
From the hinson web site:
How much will the car weigh?
___ Answer)___ The aluminum GM LS1 and LS6 engines are extremely light power plants. With the complete removal of the 13B and the heavy sequential turbos, the project car's final weight is less than the total gross vehicle weight of a stock Mazda RX7. The final weight dimensions of the car are listed below. The car weighed_ 2,831lbs with a full Touring interior with Sunroof, complete Bose sound system including the "Sound Wave," and a 1/4 tank of gas.
_
LF: 746___ RF: 677___ Total Front: 1,423lbs
LR: 675___ RR: 733____ Total Rear:1,408lbs
___ Answer)___ The aluminum GM LS1 and LS6 engines are extremely light power plants. With the complete removal of the 13B and the heavy sequential turbos, the project car's final weight is less than the total gross vehicle weight of a stock Mazda RX7. The final weight dimensions of the car are listed below. The car weighed_ 2,831lbs with a full Touring interior with Sunroof, complete Bose sound system including the "Sound Wave," and a 1/4 tank of gas.
_
LF: 746___ RF: 677___ Total Front: 1,423lbs
LR: 675___ RR: 733____ Total Rear:1,408lbs
02-12-03, 04:11 AM
#31
I'm a CF and poop smith
V8 (especially a LS1)+FD= Very reblible, very fast (tons of torque even at very low rpms!), very cost effective (hey, if we were not concerned about this one, we would all have ferraris or lambos!), still great handling (50/50 is only good when your at a dead stand still, when your actually moving/going thru a corner, it totally changes, hell the guys with bigger tires or sticker tires in the back/front are throwing off the stock handling so dont give me that crap!), Just about the same weight (and who cares if it weights just a bit more, its got more then enuf torque/hp to make up for it!!! Remember, you can always weight reduction the car in many different ways to more then make up for this!), still great looking car!
to all those who are talking about shifting to early, who cares about reving to 8-9krpm when your still at 40-70mph haha! (think about a civic!), do you know you can upshift or get different gears (tranny or rearend) right?
For those who say a rotary is different, well I really hope you got enuf money/skill to upkeep it or mod it! most of the people on this forum seem to be selling their fd's cuz they just cant handle the demands of a rotary...
In the end, I'd rather be the guy in front at the end of the 1/4 mile or any kinda drag or the first to finish on a track! second place is just the first place loser so I gotta say... V-8 for me!!!
P.S. Why the hell would any one on this forum care about what others are doing to their cars??? are you that pathetic that you gotta live thru other people? buy your own car and do what ever you wanna do with that! I guess it's kinda like when you see people cheering or yelling at a TV set when there is a game on (like they are a part of the team hahaha), its just pathetic when people have to live thru other people!
to all those who are talking about shifting to early, who cares about reving to 8-9krpm when your still at 40-70mph haha! (think about a civic!), do you know you can upshift or get different gears (tranny or rearend) right?
For those who say a rotary is different, well I really hope you got enuf money/skill to upkeep it or mod it! most of the people on this forum seem to be selling their fd's cuz they just cant handle the demands of a rotary...
In the end, I'd rather be the guy in front at the end of the 1/4 mile or any kinda drag or the first to finish on a track! second place is just the first place loser so I gotta say... V-8 for me!!!
P.S. Why the hell would any one on this forum care about what others are doing to their cars??? are you that pathetic that you gotta live thru other people? buy your own car and do what ever you wanna do with that! I guess it's kinda like when you see people cheering or yelling at a TV set when there is a game on (like they are a part of the team hahaha), its just pathetic when people have to live thru other people!
Last edited by skunks; 02-12-03 at 04:28 AM.
02-12-03, 05:49 PM
#32
Newbie
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As I have read thru all the arguments here I have come to the conclusion that someone needs to build a V-8, and someone needs to build a 20-B (tri-rotor for those who have never heard of it) to their fullest potential and then see what they have to say. Who cares about weight displacement. Who cares about sex changes. The obvious reason that we're discussing this is because the rotary engine was so far beyond its time that that ford or chevy or whoever else could not compete with it. Envy is the motivation behind the V-8 lovers argument. An RX-7 with a V-8 in it = a supermodel with a dick in her bikini and that goes for looks as well. So the next time you get a V-8 to handle half as good as a rotary and that doesn't mean down the straightaway, then you can boast about V-8 this and V-8 that. I think we're all forgetting the money issue as well. You spend 50grand on your badass corvette and I'll spend 30 on an FD with some mods and leave your domestic *** in the dust.
02-12-03, 09:37 PM
#33
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: SJ, CA
Posts: 333
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hinson will do a turn key LS1 install for about $22K. The prices I saw in the 20B forum are about $35K. $13K will buy a lot of mods, putting a LS1 RX7 in the 10s, well ahead of a 20B RX7.
02-15-03, 03:49 AM
#36
I'm a CF and poop smith
the price of a LS1 conversion can be very cheap if you do the work yourself and got the hookups 
How cheap is really how hooked up you are. A turbo LS1 can be had for not very much more 
Yes LS1's are a dime a dozen but that does not mean they wont push you in to the 10-11 sec range which is just as fun as if it was a rotary
How cheap is really how hooked up you are. A turbo LS1 can be had for not very much more Yes LS1's are a dime a dozen but that does not mean they wont push you in to the 10-11 sec range which is just as fun as if it was a rotary
02-16-03, 06:50 PM
#37
boing boing boing hmmmmmmmmmm.
these threads are ghey. no one is going to convert anyone. and yes i live my life thru others because i'm poor. so you just bitch at someone else, lol. i just want to go hmmmmmmm. and no one answered my questions, just the same ol' ****.
these threads are ghey. no one is going to convert anyone. and yes i live my life thru others because i'm poor. so you just bitch at someone else, lol. i just want to go hmmmmmmm. and no one answered my questions, just the same ol' ****.
02-17-03, 11:34 AM
#38
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: SJ, CA
Posts: 333
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
jeremy,
If you'd read the v8 threads in the 3rd gen area you would see that the v8s sit behind the front wheels. What little is ahead weighs less than what's sits in front on a rotary. Just the same ol' s**t, not using the search.
If you'd read the v8 threads in the 3rd gen area you would see that the v8s sit behind the front wheels. What little is ahead weighs less than what's sits in front on a rotary. Just the same ol' s**t, not using the search.
02-27-03, 06:03 PM
#44
Junior Member
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: California
Posts: 40
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
they say there is no replacement for displacement. in this case, that phrase will not apply because we are talking about a rotary engine vs a piston engine.
ive seen couple 1st gen rx7s with v8 conversion. ive also seen some video clip of a rx7 wit v8 comversion and all i gotta say is that, that seven kicked ***. the car would basically peal out whenever the pedal was to the metal. even at high speeds. having all that torque and hp on a very light weight chassy made that seven kick ***! however, a seven like this is like a big stupid man with nothing but mussle. ive seen a japanese race video, (i have a copy at home. ill post the name and volume number of that video later when i get home. if anyone wants that info that is) and the video was about rx vs skylines. the video was hosted by Keiichi Tsuchiya (aka Drift King. he is known to be the best driver in japan. hes also the driver of the arta nsx.). he also drove some of the cars. it was a race between a rx3 vs a KPGC10(skyline made in late 60s and early 70s. known to be best balanced skyline gt-r ever. better than the r32 and r34), 1st gen rx7 vs a r30 skyline, and 2 fd3s vs 2 r34 skylines. all the skylines had alot more power than the rx. however, rx3, sa22c(1st gen rx7), and both of the fd3s beat theyr competitors with ease. the point of this video was to show the great balance of power, weight, and handling of the rx series.
my conclusion is that if u want a drag car, go ahead with the v8 conversion. if u want a overall well balanced car suitable for street, auto cross, speed trials, etc... keep it rotary.
i think i posted information about this video long time ago. if u already know about this, sorry for the repost.
oh and.... sorry.... no fc3s in that video.
oh and um... off topic but the r30 skyline rs was also known as RS-X. wonder if acura knew that when they were naming the new integra.
ive seen couple 1st gen rx7s with v8 conversion. ive also seen some video clip of a rx7 wit v8 comversion and all i gotta say is that, that seven kicked ***. the car would basically peal out whenever the pedal was to the metal. even at high speeds. having all that torque and hp on a very light weight chassy made that seven kick ***! however, a seven like this is like a big stupid man with nothing but mussle. ive seen a japanese race video, (i have a copy at home. ill post the name and volume number of that video later when i get home. if anyone wants that info that is) and the video was about rx vs skylines. the video was hosted by Keiichi Tsuchiya (aka Drift King. he is known to be the best driver in japan. hes also the driver of the arta nsx.). he also drove some of the cars. it was a race between a rx3 vs a KPGC10(skyline made in late 60s and early 70s. known to be best balanced skyline gt-r ever. better than the r32 and r34), 1st gen rx7 vs a r30 skyline, and 2 fd3s vs 2 r34 skylines. all the skylines had alot more power than the rx. however, rx3, sa22c(1st gen rx7), and both of the fd3s beat theyr competitors with ease. the point of this video was to show the great balance of power, weight, and handling of the rx series.
my conclusion is that if u want a drag car, go ahead with the v8 conversion. if u want a overall well balanced car suitable for street, auto cross, speed trials, etc... keep it rotary.
i think i posted information about this video long time ago. if u already know about this, sorry for the repost.
oh and.... sorry.... no fc3s in that video.
oh and um... off topic but the r30 skyline rs was also known as RS-X. wonder if acura knew that when they were naming the new integra.
Last edited by Kouki_1st_Gen; 02-27-03 at 06:16 PM.
02-27-03, 06:34 PM
#45
I'm a CF and poop smith
Originally posted by Kouki_1st_Gen
they say there is no replacement for displacement. in this case, that phrase will not apply because we are talking about a rotary engine vs a piston engine.
ive seen couple 1st gen rx7s with v8 conversion. ive also seen some video clip of a rx7 wit v8 comversion and all i gotta say is that, that seven kicked ***. the car would basically peal out whenever the pedal was to the metal. even at high speeds. having all that torque and hp on a very light weight chassy made that seven kick ***! however, a seven like this is like a big stupid man with nothing but mussle. ive seen a japanese race video, (i have a copy at home. ill post the name and volume number of that video later when i get home. if anyone wants that info that is) and the video was about rx vs skylines. the video was hosted by Keiichi Tsuchiya (aka Drift King. he is known to be the best driver in japan. hes also the driver of the arta nsx.). he also drove some of the cars. it was a race between a rx3 vs a KPGC10(skyline made in late 60s and early 70s. known to be best balanced skyline gt-r ever. better than the r32 and r34), 1st gen rx7 vs a r30 skyline, and 2 fd3s vs 2 r34 skylines. all the skylines had alot more power than the rx. however, rx3, sa22c(1st gen rx7), and both of the fd3s beat theyr competitors with ease. the point of this video was to show the great balance of power, weight, and handling of the rx series.
my conclusion is that if u want a drag car, go ahead with the v8 conversion. if u want a overall well balanced car suitable for street, auto cross, speed trials, etc... keep it rotary.
i think i posted information about this video long time ago. if u already know about this, sorry for the repost.
oh and.... sorry.... no fc3s in that video.
oh and um... off topic but the r30 skyline rs was also known as RS-X. wonder if acura knew that when they were naming the new integra.
they say there is no replacement for displacement. in this case, that phrase will not apply because we are talking about a rotary engine vs a piston engine.
ive seen couple 1st gen rx7s with v8 conversion. ive also seen some video clip of a rx7 wit v8 comversion and all i gotta say is that, that seven kicked ***. the car would basically peal out whenever the pedal was to the metal. even at high speeds. having all that torque and hp on a very light weight chassy made that seven kick ***! however, a seven like this is like a big stupid man with nothing but mussle. ive seen a japanese race video, (i have a copy at home. ill post the name and volume number of that video later when i get home. if anyone wants that info that is) and the video was about rx vs skylines. the video was hosted by Keiichi Tsuchiya (aka Drift King. he is known to be the best driver in japan. hes also the driver of the arta nsx.). he also drove some of the cars. it was a race between a rx3 vs a KPGC10(skyline made in late 60s and early 70s. known to be best balanced skyline gt-r ever. better than the r32 and r34), 1st gen rx7 vs a r30 skyline, and 2 fd3s vs 2 r34 skylines. all the skylines had alot more power than the rx. however, rx3, sa22c(1st gen rx7), and both of the fd3s beat theyr competitors with ease. the point of this video was to show the great balance of power, weight, and handling of the rx series.
my conclusion is that if u want a drag car, go ahead with the v8 conversion. if u want a overall well balanced car suitable for street, auto cross, speed trials, etc... keep it rotary.
i think i posted information about this video long time ago. if u already know about this, sorry for the repost.
oh and.... sorry.... no fc3s in that video.
oh and um... off topic but the r30 skyline rs was also known as RS-X. wonder if acura knew that when they were naming the new integra.
or just drop some weight from the inside/cabin (which is easily achievable, I hope to drop about 300 lbs myself) you'll easily get that back. Hell take out the spare tire, adjust your suspension (if you got coilovers and can do so) and get better brakes and you'll have the same or better handling car as before. You'll have the same exact car but with double or tripple the hp/torque (possibly staying N/A)! Being able to floor it in 3rd/4th gear at 60-100mph and chirp/smoke your tires while still being one of the best handling production vechial while at the same time costing under what a new Civic cost is what its all about
Good night and good fight!
Last edited by skunks; 02-27-03 at 06:40 PM.
03-04-03, 07:42 AM
#47
Senior Member
To sum this up....
I am a purist. I love Rx-7's. I love the rotary engine despite its previous shortcomings. But the +'s outweigh the -'s. It is unique and pisses in the face of conventional engines (most notably V8 muscle). If you want to put a V8 in a 7 then go ahead, but you are robbing the soul out of the car. Its the only source we have for a true diamond in the rough.
If you drive a 7 with a V8 in it, then I dont feel you can be considered a true 7 enthusiast. It kinda reminds me of ricers who care more about the image they put across than the guts of the car. Why would you get a 7 only to tear out its soul..... only reason I can think of is for looks.
Asbestos flame suit on.....
I am a purist. I love Rx-7's. I love the rotary engine despite its previous shortcomings. But the +'s outweigh the -'s. It is unique and pisses in the face of conventional engines (most notably V8 muscle). If you want to put a V8 in a 7 then go ahead, but you are robbing the soul out of the car. Its the only source we have for a true diamond in the rough.
If you drive a 7 with a V8 in it, then I dont feel you can be considered a true 7 enthusiast. It kinda reminds me of ricers who care more about the image they put across than the guts of the car. Why would you get a 7 only to tear out its soul..... only reason I can think of is for looks.
Asbestos flame suit on.....