mechanical feul injection is it possible?
 

Like the topic say! Anyone running a mec feul system?Lay out,pics,do and donts :confused: .How well system works etc.Any input please! :D

It's doable. I believe Porsche had a mechanical fuel injection system at some point.

http://www.pelicanparts.com/techarti...MFI/TipMFI.htm

Can't say if anyone has actually done it or not. Why would you want to do this?

-=Russ=-

whywould you want to go back to the days of early monotronic control VW/audi dropped it like a rock.. Or were you thinking along the lines of the Lucas vacume reference system ??

you might a as well stick to a carb. if your not interested in modern jetronic type systems..

Uh, how about...just...DON'T...?


-Ted

it will be cheaper to buy a complete mec system than buying a stand alone system in my country.Mec system=+-180 us to a Stand alone=+-1400us dollar.Seen a 13bt drag ldv with set up .Best run was a 10.8 sec=1/4 mile.But car is not driveable on daily basis!Anyone with such a setup?
thanks for input!

Uh,how about...thanks for nothing...please...?
you are a help!

save the money and go with a standalone....you're better off in the long run

every one will agree...why go back to an unreliable, archaic way....

yee -wiz may be you(reted,funkspectrum) must start a flaming club,well who is going to join????????
thinking of dropping the question!
thank you Syonyk,doridori-rx7 for your input,i know of two members that are not joining the club???

Majority of members are from the USA, so answers will usually be references to products familiar and used in the USA.
Although the majority of entry-level stand-alone EMS are from Australia, they are widely used in the USA.

You NOT from the USA - duh.
You CAN'T expect us to understand your reference.

Then you call us FLAMING?
You gotta be kidding me.
Are you like 10 years old?
You haven't seen me FLAME yet.

I have no idea what a "Mec system" is.
I doubt ANY of the other USA members know what a "Mec system" is.
Why don't you try a SA drag website?
If it's so superior, why are you asking OUR help???

From what little I know of mechanical injection...
You need a mechanical fuel pump, which is either coupled to the engine via a pulley and belt or a cam and lever.
The mechanical fuel pump pumps fuel to the fuel injectors (rails?) that you still need an FPR.
You CAN'T buy a good FPR for $150?!?!?
Then there's the special injectors...

If you can get everything for $150, then go for it.
If you can't tune the damn thing, that was a waste of $150.


-Ted

reted i can clearly see that you got no idea how or what a mec system(mechanical feul injection system) look or work....DUH!!!!
As far as i know this systems is been used on the 2.0 16valve vw engines.
But once again you live in the usa.Maybe next time first do a search ,no research or whatever before giving input on the subject.maybe you other car is a v8???
funny isnt it that two members were under standing my question and not you?
makes you think doesnt it!DUH

Sorry,but back to my question!Doridori-rx7 what system is a lucas vacume reference system can you please explain the lay out of it?Or maybe you could point me to a web site of that system.Thank you!
(maybe someone can learn or see what a mechanical feul injection system *l o o k s * like)
cheers!!!!

You just don't get it...
But I chalk that on up on your poor comprehension of English...

You applaud people who have actually dis'd (yO Yo Yo language) your idea!
How cheeky!

It's like throwing carburators on an FC...
You're taking a step back.
Most people will agree that you're moving in the wrong direction.
Only the extreme stubborn or the extremely ignorant (of modern fuel injection systems) would want to do something like this.
Retrofitting something that the car did not original come with or was designed for is just asking for trouble.
If you really wanted to do this, you would've done it already.
Because you are asking for help, this implies you're not competent to do this yourself...yet.

Electronic fuel injection is the standard.
Mechanical fuel injection is very rare (especially with gasoline / petrol, not diesel) and limited to some very specialized racing sanctions.

You're better off finding that VW / Mercedes / Porsche / Audi...that's my suggestion.


-Ted

Reted,sit back,relax,take a sip of your orange juice.I will now drop the question!,so if you want the last word go ahead and feel free.To the other members that gave me tips ect.
THANK YOU

How old are you???
13???

You drop a vague question about mechanical fuel injection and get all insulted cause you don't get the answers you want???

WTF is wrong with this world.

Just for kicks, I just HAD to research what the hell you're trying to do...

By your other threads...

You got a used (J-spec?) 13BT out of an FC3S turbo.
You have NO ECU or engine harness.
You're trying to stuff this into a Capella (RX-3?).
You've got (2?) 40mm "sidies" or a single 48mm.
You've got problem with possible float collapsing and trying to run over 15psi?

But, now you're trying to go either BP or PP...

IT WOULD'VE HELPED IT YOU TOLD US ALL OF THAT BEFORE ASKING SOME VAGUE QUESTION ABOUT MECHANICAL FUEL INJECTION.

Geezus...

Here's your answers which NO ONE was able to answer for you.
Twin 40's will work with turbo.
A single 48 is barely big enough for a BP; it is too small for a PP.
You need to prep the carbs to be able to handle positive pressure, but you should obviously know that for now.

You would've found all of that out if you did a PROPER SEARCH, but I guess you're too incompetent to be able to do that at his point in time.

Since you have experience making custom intake manifolds, I'd imagine making a turbo intake plenum is no problem, even with the twin 40's.

Good luck bitch


-Ted

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!

Search the NW forum for a member by the name of gambone, he has an old RX4 with a custom fabbed parallel twin turbo 13B running dual Bosch Jetronic mechanical injection systems from VW rabbits or something. He has a thread called "my pic of the day" that has many photos of his car and injection setup.

I think it works well, it just runs out of fuel when he's in boost so he's obviously using more air than two VW rabbits would (which would have a combined horsepower of about 160, max.) :)

Thank you 88IntegraLS for the input will be going there.

O by the way retard(sorry REted) i see your club is starting to shrink a bit now?
whats wrong?
some members can give me answers!,i think you must go to the web site aswell to see the set up?
and for my age?maybe 14 maybe not!!!!!!!
suck that!

happy 35th birthday! sorry i'm a week late.

i dont know whats up with REted, he seems to enjoy ripping on people if they want to do something he doesnt agree with, ego's are funny like that, but he does know quite a bit from what i read

O thank you for your input on all my questions so far REted ...............
BUT!!!!!
(1)twin 40-I know that(2 sidies will flow more than the 48 ida)
(2)48 ida not to small for bp,pp(size of port and porting)
(3) not first time putting turbo and carb on 13bt(s4 with boxed nikki carb,feul enrichment etc)
(4)I do not want to fill float with foam(one day if I turn 15 I will buy a plastic float from robert of rotaryshack)
(5)intake manifold-well lets see!.Got some help with that(some members help AND then some dont,they want to be club starters)
HAVE A NICE SUNNY DAY

PS. DONT FORGET TO RELAX!!!!!

Thank you gingenhagen.(birthday was FUCKING A)

Tournapart yes I agree,I dont say he knows fuck all.But was reading a thread from one member asking something about mods etc. to his fc.He then gave a shitty remark!
If he can not give desent answers to members ,keep it to him self then!
not all of us is rolling in dollars like MR RETed.

What I don't get is, you spent enough money to run a 10.8sec 1/4mile but you don't want to spend the money for stand-alone?

I'd say it has to do with the following.

A) You asked for it
B) You're putting a sub-par system on, that can be done better, and cheaper than what you're going on about
C) Your posts are so poorly written it could be mistaken that you're asking to throw a carb on, or to mechanical injectoion (why you think this is cheaper is beyond most of us)

His answer was more than decent, it was the best method of doing it. However, since you want to be cheap, his reply doesn't fit what you want, so you get all shitty because it's not what you want to hear.

SonicRaT all i can say is
JOIN THE CLUB

(1) did not ask for remarks or anything,a simple answer why it wont work would have been great but then.... ummm,...just....dont
(2)I am asking for info from members that maybe have answers to my question
(3)I think my thread writing is the same as yours...also shitty...consider that english is not my language
And last i want to ask firt before starting a project,know the facts ect.than first start make a bols up and then after the bols up want to ask the questions!
Does that make sense??????

RxsevenSymphonies i never said i got a set up that run that time on the 1/4 mile.I have seen one with that time.And they are from pretoria here in south africa.And theire ldv outrun some rotarys that got stand alone setups!

I do believe YOU said this. And guess what, you got input.

No, it doesn't.

Compare spelling accuracy, and then compare grammar.

Good for you.

I'm the club president.

You would be unwise to completely disregard the answers that some very knowledgeable members are giving you.

"Like the topic say! Anyone running a mec feul system?Lay out,pics,do and donts .How well system works etc.Any input please!"

The system works terribly and is unreliable. That's why nobody runs it and doesn't know anything (except for maybe one person).

"it will be cheaper to buy a complete mec system than buying a stand alone system in my country.Mec system=+-180 us to a Stand alone=+-1400us dollar.Seen a 13bt drag ldv with set up .Best run was a 10.8 sec=1/4 mile.But car is not driveable on daily basis!Anyone with such a setup?
thanks for input!"

You sure it's only going to cost $180 to fully convert the system to mechanical fuel injection? A megasquirt standalone costs only $200 and you get to keep the inifinitely superior EFI system. And this car will be a fine daily driver. Going that route would be the wiser decision.

edit: Of course, it is completely within your right to disregard whatever advice I or anyone else gives you, but I highly doubt you will be able to find the info you want for the reasons I gave above and also because of your petulant attitude.

Ah I see, I missed that part right before you mentioning the 10.8 1/4 mile.

SonicRaT

(1)Input yes from some members(but just remarks ect. from the new club)
(2)Make sense?-first ask then do if,if,if possible
(3)Maybe we all must go back to school again (test people test)
(4)Glad to hear your the president and not the founder!!!!!!!

gingenhagem

Nothing wrong with my attitude.I got answers on the topic+thread(person that did it)+a pm with very good info and people to ask about system(system had been done many moons ago,but is not street driveable)

HMMMM......are we going to continue or is this the END

UP TO THE CLUB

YOURS FAITHFULLY

non member

1) this isn't a selective forum, you're open to whatever anybody wants to say
2) Making sense is relative, to me using outdated technology because you're misinformed about the new technology doesn't make sense.
3) It'd be a start.
4) Yeah, ignorance has been around a long time.

SonicRaT i now see why some are so stressed,they do not know when to stop,or they stop and the next pal continue.(brothers in arms)
THINK ITS TIME FOR PROMOTOIN

Dieter, you seem to be the only stressed person here. All your yelling (capitals) is giving me an e-headache. Calm down and listen to the advice you've been given, even if it's not what you wanted to hear. Mechanical FI is not worth the grief when EFI is so readily and cheaply available. You haven't yet given us a good reason not to use EFI.

http://www.atkinsrotary.com/index.php?pag=11
Gonzales jr. and sr. run mech fuel injection. And they still run with the best of them. I would personally have no idea how to tune such a system. Basically the fuel system has a "distributor" that has a trigger device to tell it when to push fuel to certain injectors. Although, if you can make it work, it doesnt have too many advantages over EFI (not enough in my opinion) but i do belive they run quite a bit more fuel pressure. And if you can get a good price on it where you live, it would be pretty cool to see it done. No its not at all like a carburetor, (dont put a toilet on your intake). Because it provides much more equal fuel delivery in a sequential manner.

This is quite a generalization. I know that gonzales jr. and sr. have been running them for a while. However, i know they have also had problems when going into different elevations, because there is no ems to compensate for atmospheric pressure.

You know what, go fuck yourself.
If I was "rolling in dollars", I would have a MoTeC M800 fully-unlocked with a MoTeC ADL back-lit with it.
I just hate idiots like you who have false impressions on who I am.
You haven't even met me, and yet you think you got me all figured out.

I'm not "rolling in dollars" like you wrongly think.
I work hard for my money.
I work two full time jobs so that I can work on my car and modify it to my wants and needs.

I'm try not to getto rig shit like your sorry ass, so I work longer to and save my money to buy things properly.

Speed takes money.
It's a concept you don't seem to understand yet.
Maybe that's the problem - not the mechanical fuel injection - it's just you're a lazy bastard.

Good luck getto rigging your shit, cause it's either going to blow up on you or kill you...


-Ted

damn, hey dieter, this whole mech. fi thing is interesting to me. Yes, some people are simply shut down to the idea, but thats cuz in the end, all things considered, an EFI system is much more efficient. But theres no need to make enemies of them and talk all kinds of trash, who knows these people may be there when you need them.

So you want to see what mechanical FI on a 13B can do?

I think there were maybe 14 alcohol injectors after the monster turbo in this intake.
They were controlled by a progressive mechanical valve linkage.

It was all custom engineering and was nowhere near streetable.

link to short video

If you're willing to spend all the time fixing a mechanical system to work on your car, you would be better off buying a megasquirt for the $300 us they sell for. Sure it's slightly more than what you claim is the street value of a mechanical system, but it's better and easier to deal with once up and running. Atleast I would assume since the whole point of efi is that it can be changed via electronic input, something that a straight mechanical system simply can't compete with.

As for you people yelling at this guy. Don't do it, it's only pissing him off and you off as well. He may be ignorant of the virtues of efi and how shitty mechanical injection is, but let him know with constructive criticism. It pisses me off to no end when people put carbs on our cars but all I do is tell them that there's a damned good reason carbs were phased out in the 80's. There's also a good reason mechanical fuel injection never even became a mainstream system.

http://www.ronsfuel.com/ This is what Carlos Gonzales uses. It is a Rons Mechanical fuel injection system modified for a rotary. He is making upwards of 900rwhp and pushing well past 35+psi boost. If you call Rons Fuel Injection Systems they can give you Carlos Gonzales number he is in Florida. Or do a search for GNS Racing. This is a quote from one of his post "Hi this is Carlos if you are really interested on finding out how the mechanical fuel injection system works call me at my shop. The number is (352)-237-7955 and fax (352)237-5327. Thank you."

Thank you for all your info etc.(SureShot,locketine and 13btnos)

SGPguy-Thank you ,dont want to make enemies but if some one start giving me shit i will give him shit back.(shit remarks=shit remarks)was just asking thats all.Then answer,but did not even try to explain why or what!Think he could not give info ,why did he just shut up and kept it to him self?That answer he gave me is not surely input or may be i can not read?Thats all!

NZConvertible-Question is about mfi and not efi!Ihave seen rotaries running with efi systems.I am interested in how or if it could work-mfi!
And if i give you a headache stop reading, i am not forcing you to read or take a pill

RETed-Cowboys dont cry!!!!Dont get pissed off,i asked a question and you gave a shit answer.To me thats not a answer why did you just kept it to your self?And to your
Go fuck your self answer ,well bud,THE FEELING IS MUTUAL!!!!!!!!!!!!
And sorry to hear of your two jobs,maybe you suck at one,maybe- maybe not

TO ALL THAT GAVE ME INPUT ,WEB SITES ETC. THANK YOU !!!!!!!

PS:Good luck to the new club with its members!!!!!

Look at this video... (right clic and save as... it's 35Mb big) This is a Swedish 300hp PP ported N/A RX7 with mechanical Kügelfischer injection from an old Peugeot, racing against 700hp Corvettes and other big engine racecars!

http://www.blennowsbil.se/docs/video...ulle050724.avi

Sorry to disappoint you, but I'm the best at what I do.
I'm the best guy at both jobs over all the other employees.


-Ted

Porsche used K-Jet for quite a long time. As did SAAB, Audi, VW, Mercedes-Benz, etc.

Funny thing, Bosch got the rights to the system for very little.

What? You thought Bosch invented fuel injection?

Bosch bought the system from Rochester, who had been making it for Chevrolets since 1957. They tinkered here and there but it's the same system in a nutshell.

That is for airflow-metered FI. There have been several different flavors of TPS-RPM fuel injection (Hilborn, Enderle, etc), and I know they've been applied to rotaries before. TPS-RPM systems are generally race only, since they have a "flat" fuel curve, meaning you adjust the mixture for your powerband and it runs too rich elsewhere (your powerband is where VE is highest so you won't run lean anywhere). And minor annoyances like the fuel lines bleeding down into the engine after shutoff, causing a guaranteed flood-start, things like that.

I've got that setup sitting on the floor of my garage. Gotta love those old chevy's!

Ted, remember that cowboys don't cry ;).

NOW that is info.!!!!!!!!!!
So it can be done but you can not drive your car on the streets(feul,air mix does not stay the same all the time)
Thanks for info


RETed
maybe-maybe not????
Maybe you the only employee there?
(OK, will stop now!)

Whats wrong with a carb on an FC?:)

It's a waste of a perfectly good carburetor. :)

This is my Rx7 Runs mechanical injection i have a few cars that are on Hilborn injection. I’ve yet to see an EFI system that can match the throttle response mechanical injection. I feel the air bleed injectors on the mechanical systems are far better at atomizing the fuel. But to each his own so they say.



http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a1...Picture195.jpg


http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a1...Picture196.jpg


http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a1...Picture199.jpg

How much did all of that cost just to make about 200hp?


-Ted